carryover

I'm sorry, but, as you posted on the topic that I started, disputing the advice I'm trying to share, it's my business to defend the points I'm making here, and not just the one about going straight to school out of undergrad. It's not just me, there are plenty of people who are disturbed by how much schools are charging for an MFA. This is something that's been building for a while in the arts community, and is coming to a head at places like USC Roski, Cooper Union and more. If only schools were not so inexpensive, my attitude would be very different. Often it works out fantastically for people to go to the "wrong" school at the "wrong" time in their development. But as the majority of artists don't have endless money to throw around, and as being in debt can cripple your career, I think it does matter, and that everyone should approach the decision with extreme caution, and wait a bit. Obviously it's annoying to give this advice at a time when most people have already made a decision. I both hope this thread gets taken up next season, and that by then I'm paying attention to way more important things.

In response to heyward2323, It's not just whether someone is mature enough, or if someone should go to school straight from undergrad. You're focusing on just one of several points I'm making about why going to an MFA shouldn't be the default, normal thing for an artist to do. You're also going to a school (Tyler) that disturbs me. I was curious what the tuition is there so I went to the website, and it's difficult to find. They brag prominently about their ranking as a top 10 mfa program, but I had to look in several places and do some math to find out it costs @35K/yr to go there. Even with 50% aid and a stipend, you'll likely graduate with a lot of debt. In my opinion the person best situated to make great art and succeed is someone with no debt who can live in their studio and get by working part time. By going to openings and hanging out all the time with other artists they can get a lot of the feedback and community you find in art schools. Anyone can live like this. In Grad School you get to do this for 2 years. BUT, how are you going to go back to that lifestyle when you have to pay $400/month in student loans? Or when you have an inflated standards and don't want to go back to slumming it? In the end this should all be about what's best for the Art and the Artist. We have to be careful because so many programs will act as yes men and be happy to take our money while we pursue what turns out to be a vanity project. From what I've seen a lot of grads are not in a good place, and the work that results isn't either. It's not a good thing for Art if it's made by a bunch of stressed out overeducated artists desperate to sell work that is inaccessible yet cynically aimed at the market. To make good work you want a lifetime of being free. Enslaving yourself to debt payments is a sure way to ruin that.

There is no one way, I agree. But Bannedinbc put it better though; it's not about immaturity, it's about getting the most out of the right program at the right time. Having some experience of the art world first will enrich your study and choice of school. Getting to know about schools via interacting with alumni and faculty within a specific art community is much more meaningful compared with a portfolio day. Then there is the money issue. In a world where all schools are free of charge I'd probably have a different opinion. I'd say, go straight in, go to the 'wrong' school, chase an interest even though you may stop making art in 5 years, like alot of our peers. But a lot of these programs are freaking expensive. There are so many things you can do to stay active outside of school. You can start an artist run gallery. You can do a residency, make publications. You can learn a lot working for other artists or as a graphic designer. These are more organic and tied to reality than academia. Not going to school doesn't mean shutting down and closing off your education.

Thanks, I'm glad it stuck a note with you. I'm a little embarrassed by my list of schools above. Some kid is going to come out of Iowa and destroy the art world just to prove me wrong. There are lots of wonderful programs I'm sure. I just don't think the cost of many of the schools is realistic considering what we can expect to earn on graduating.

I am almost certain the funding situation is excellent. Not sure if you get a stipend, not sure about overseas students, but tuition seems to be very low based on what past grads have told me. I think this is one of the best programs right now, if not the best, though I think the student body is a little eclectic and I don't like their studio set up much.

I'm going to a good program in the Fall, and these forums provided solidarity and were useful to me in the application process so I want to give back a little. I hope to prevent someone from getting stupidly in debt or making a huge decision without the right info. Some background, I'm 32 and have been out of undergrad (RISD) for almost 10 years. Since then I've worked for major contemporary artists and galleries in NY, LA and SF, and shown at mostly artist run spaces and small galleries. All my friends and co-workers are artists, most went to good undergrad programs, some did MFAs all over. Some have big careers now, some have are struggling. So I've made my living in the arts and feel like I know the art world well from the inside, though not from the top . So here it goes: #1) The best MFA is no MFA. Don't apply unless you are sure. Most successful artists did not get an MFA. Some of the most promising artists I knew in undergrad got totally messed up by contradictory advice, head games, and debt burden. And if you're in a relationship you care about, it probably won't survive the strain of being selfish and immersed with a ton of new friends under stressful circumstances. #2) Experience the Real World First. Don't go straight out of undergrad. Being an artist is a long haul. It's really hard to make work and earn a living at the same time, and you will probably have to at some point. It's hard to be an adult and mature. It's important to build relationships in the actual art world, not just the school based one. You'll be best off if you learn how to handle all these things first, so that you can get the most of the MFA when you go back and do it. By then you will also know exactly which program fits you, and will be a stronger candidate if you can prove the ability to work and exhibit outside of school. #3) Pick the Right One: The Lists are B.S. The U.S. News and World Report is at best misinformed, at worst, it's an outright scam. It's full of big expensive programs, and the people they survey for the list? Faculty at big expensive programs. Almost all the good artists i know, the type who could go anywhere, went to schools with some sort of funding. With the exception of a unique few like Columbia and CalArts, if it's expensive, it's not worth it. Here's my list of the best schools to which my friends who did undergrad at Cooper, RISD, MICA, CalArts and SCAIC went on to attend. I'm sure people will have a problem with it, but this is where friends I respect have gone. UCLA - cheap CalArts - not cheap Columbia - not cheap USC Roski - destroyed Hunter - cheap Bard - affordable Rutgers - cheap UC Riverside - cheap UC San Diego - cheap Yale - cheap (need based funding) MIT - ?funding OR, Anywhere you're sure there are good people and the $$ is good, #4) Location Most of the above are schools in NY or LA, or nearby. That is where most of the art world is. When you graduate a school you will have lots of ties and opportunities in the place where you studied. It can be very hard to find work in the art world in these places, so you will have a head start. There are plenty of amazing places to be an artist, but NY and LA have way more going on than the others. #5) Big Star Faculty are Unimportant So what if a school has a name you're blown away by. The bigger they are in the art world, the worse a teacher they are probably. They will be too distracted with their studio deadlines to give you any attention at school. You want to learn from teachers who make good work, but a mega art star is a shitty faculty member. Unless the person is actively going to prioritize teaching for a time, I would not count on them being great. There are legendary artists who are great teachers, I'm talking about 'hot' artists. #6) Start Your Application Early It is a big logistical hassle. Asking references, writing CVs, updating websites, getting transcripts, these all take time. #7) Do Residencies If you're thinking of applying to grad school, but aren't sure, or your portfolio is weak, do a residency. They are like mini grad schools in a way, and are a great way to get the time to do a discreet body of work to add to your portfolio. Even if you don't get into one, applying to them will give you practice in putting together writing and images. #8) A Portfolio of Good Images Borrow or rent or buy a good camera and lights, and learn how to color correct and clean it all up digitally. It makes a huge difference. The portfolio seems to be the #1 thing that matters, with your writing second, and references a close 3rd. Don't worry if you have bad grades, or studied communications in undergrad. #9) Take the Interview Seriously Prepare for it some. Spend a few days at the school. At least don't arrive an hour before it starts. Get some sleep the night before. Hang out with the other students and poke around the program. A lot of times the other students get some say in who gets in, so getting to know them can help. #10) Have Perspective, and Re-Apply If you don't get into a school you like, re-apply. Don't settle for a crappy school because you were set on attending this year. You will seriously regret it down the road. Remember, you can only do an MFA once. There are so many random reasons for accepting and rejecting people, I wouldn't take too much stock in a handful of rejections. Hope this is helpful! #

Hi, I interviewed and am going in the Fall for Painting! Here are things I learned that weren't obvious going in: 1) There is need based funding. It is not unlimited though, I am broke but will have to cover 5K of tuition plus health care. Still this is great. BUT, if you have wealthy parents either you or they will have to pay, regardless of your age or weather your parents will actually cough up. You can TA the second year, I also hear the second year students get first dibs on their funding. 2) If you get an interview it will be a HUGE pain in the ass, especially if you're coming from far away. For painters you have to transport 6 paintings and 6 drawings, and then leave them there and either pick it all up again, or arrange for someone to do that and ship it back. I respect their interview process though. It gives them a picture of how you handle everything. 3) Everything about the interview trip is important. You show up on interview day with your work, and before the interview are given an empty classroom to hang it with the help of 1st year students in your program. About 15 minutes before the faculty come in from the other room to interview you. Keep in mind the 1st year students also get a say in your acceptance, they're tired and bored of working all week, so try to be chill and nice to them even if they hang your work crooked. The interview was 2 of the faculty. They seemed tired but I tried to keep it light. I read a book of interviews with artists in the days before hand, and I was struck by how un-didactic and chill these artists were, and tried to keep the same vibe. Don't run your mouth with a pre-prepared rant, don't spew jargon, pay attention to what bores them or interests them and try to respond like a human being. If they go into jargon try to run with them but don't rabbit hole. Smile and make a joke if you can. You then leave your work there so that all the faculty and 1st years can review it as a group, and pick it up the next week. 4) Spend a few days there. I came on a Thursday, interviewed Friday, and left Saturday AM. It turned out Thursday night was $1 Beer Night at the bar by the studios and it was an opportunity to meet a few people and at least get an idea of life there. I have no idea if hanging around with people a bit helped, but it might have. It at least gives you a good idea of the school which is especially important if you get into more than one program and have a tough decision to make. 5) The type of artist they seem to like is specific, and I think it may apply for sculpture too. At first I was a little baffled by some of the people there, but then realized what they all have in common. Most people there seemed to make a lot of stuff. If you are the type to work on one project for a whole year, if you struggle to fill a portfolio with 20 works, then it is not the school for you. They want people who work hard and do a lot and aren't afraid to make failures, and try new things. I'd say bring variety to your portfolio and what you take to an interview. 6) New Haven seems like a good location. It is relatively cheap, has close transport access to NYC, but has enough remove to allow an incredibly tight focus inward on the art school. The school itself's resources are vast and open to you, from gyms, libraries and ceramics to mental health services etc. 7) The students there seemed awesome and very focused into the program. I've spent time around various MFAs and in various places, and I feel like some schools the students are distracted by their surroundings but here it seemed focused I haven't gotten there yet so I could be full of shit!