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Larnith

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  1. Upvote
    Larnith reacted to Account6567 in Intensive Chinese Program or Manchu Language Program?   
    Don't have any advice to add but I'm interested in similar programs so really appreciate you making this thread- Has anyone here completed either TUSA's program for the Huayu Mandarin Enrichment Program's scholarship by any chance?
  2. Like
    Larnith got a reaction from idoitchicagostyle in Intensive Chinese Program or Manchu Language Program?   
    Thanks guys for the insight! I think all of you make some very valid points. It seems like the potential benefit of learning Manchu right now simply doesn’t outweigh the penalty of a Chinese (classical and modern) language deficiency. Additionally, I've only spent 3months in China, so more time in Asia can only help my chances. While the Berkeley program is a rare opportunity, it seems Taiwan is both cheaper and more pertinent right now. Moving forward I will just need to keep my eye out for more convenient opportunities to learn Manchu.  
  3. Upvote
    Larnith got a reaction from TheHessianHistorian in Intensive Chinese Program or Manchu Language Program?   
    Thanks guys for the insight! I think all of you make some very valid points. It seems like the potential benefit of learning Manchu right now simply doesn’t outweigh the penalty of a Chinese (classical and modern) language deficiency. Additionally, I've only spent 3months in China, so more time in Asia can only help my chances. While the Berkeley program is a rare opportunity, it seems Taiwan is both cheaper and more pertinent right now. Moving forward I will just need to keep my eye out for more convenient opportunities to learn Manchu.  
  4. Upvote
    Larnith got a reaction from pudewen in Intensive Chinese Program or Manchu Language Program?   
    Thanks guys for the insight! I think all of you make some very valid points. It seems like the potential benefit of learning Manchu right now simply doesn’t outweigh the penalty of a Chinese (classical and modern) language deficiency. Additionally, I've only spent 3months in China, so more time in Asia can only help my chances. While the Berkeley program is a rare opportunity, it seems Taiwan is both cheaper and more pertinent right now. Moving forward I will just need to keep my eye out for more convenient opportunities to learn Manchu.  
  5. Like
    Larnith got a reaction from lordtiandao in Intensive Chinese Program or Manchu Language Program?   
    Thanks guys for the insight! I think all of you make some very valid points. It seems like the potential benefit of learning Manchu right now simply doesn’t outweigh the penalty of a Chinese (classical and modern) language deficiency. Additionally, I've only spent 3months in China, so more time in Asia can only help my chances. While the Berkeley program is a rare opportunity, it seems Taiwan is both cheaper and more pertinent right now. Moving forward I will just need to keep my eye out for more convenient opportunities to learn Manchu.  
  6. Like
    Larnith got a reaction from TMP in Intensive Chinese Program or Manchu Language Program?   
    Thanks guys for the insight! I think all of you make some very valid points. It seems like the potential benefit of learning Manchu right now simply doesn’t outweigh the penalty of a Chinese (classical and modern) language deficiency. Additionally, I've only spent 3months in China, so more time in Asia can only help my chances. While the Berkeley program is a rare opportunity, it seems Taiwan is both cheaper and more pertinent right now. Moving forward I will just need to keep my eye out for more convenient opportunities to learn Manchu.  
  7. Upvote
    Larnith reacted to idoitchicagostyle in Intensive Chinese Program or Manchu Language Program?   
    I think the many 前輩s in this post have already raised some really good points. But I do want to add my opinion on this matter.
    I believe, given that you are not a native Chinese speaker, the most important task is to master the Chinese language and reach a proficiency level in Classical Chinese that allows you to read and comprehend primary documents. You are totally right that learning Manchu would enhance your application, but it seems to me that this is, at this moment, not the most pressing issue.
    As a basketball fan, your question is like asking, "as a shooting guard, should I learn shooting or lay-ups first?" I would definitely say, you need to master shooting first before you move on to others. Being able to score inside with layups is, of course, going to make you a better player, but your shooting attribute, in my opinion, must always come first.
  8. Upvote
    Larnith reacted to TMP in Intensive Chinese Program or Manchu Language Program?   
    I'll also add; save the Manchu program for when you are actually in the PhD program.  You can then apply for grants and FLAS in your university to help cover the costs of attending a Manchu program.  No need to go into unnecessary debt.  I would heed @pudewen and @lordtiandao's advice.  Also I know you can apply for a full-ride Mandarin immersion program at Middlebury too if you need more Chinese.  I'll also agree on the basis of secondary source literature.  I'm discovering it for myself now as I'm reading up secondary literature for my dissertation which engages with China (although Chinese history isn't my main field).  It would definitely have been a bit useful to know some Chinese to assess the scholarship over in China on my own rather than rely on book reviews and newly published books in English.
  9. Upvote
    Larnith reacted to lordtiandao in Intensive Chinese Program or Manchu Language Program?   
    Definitely not trying to undersell. I recognize the importance of Manchu in studying the Early and High Qing. There are a lot of Manchu language documents that are going to be indispensable when writing the dissertation. Still, at this stage, he needs Classical Chinese more than he does Manchu.
     
    Sorry, I should rephrase so it's clearer. You can absolutely continue Chinese courses in PhD, but I think the keyword should be "continue". Since OP would like to get into a top program, he needs to know Classical Chinese right now, and if he gets in, then continue, rather than know zero Classical Chinese and start from scratch once he is in the program. I don't think that's good for him.
  10. Upvote
    Larnith reacted to pudewen in Intensive Chinese Program or Manchu Language Program?   
    I'm in general a big Manchu proponent - indeed I taught it at Harvard last year. And I first took Manchu from the person who will be teaching the program you would be doing (assuming you're doing the one at Berkeley that I've seen advertised), who is a wonderful instructor. I think Manchu is an extremely important language, and lordtiandao is underselling how much you would use it to do a dissertation project dealing with Manchu identity.
    That said, I have to agree with the other posters that Chinese is a more fundamental skill, and more important to your PhD applications. It's definitively not true that you won't be able to continue studying Chinese (Classical or Modern) after entering a PhD program. I took 2nd year Classical Chinese after starting my PhD (though I did have a year coming in), and that was not seen as weird at all. But it is true that better Chinese will do far more for your PhD applications than a year of Manchu. It's also the case that you will need good Chinese skills earlier in a PhD program than you will  Manchu skills, which you probably won't be using extensively until a couple years in, whereas Chinese will be necessary for your coursework. Given the stage of Chinese you're at now, lordtiandao is right that you will struggle to produce a good writing sample using Chinese sources next year without the boost from the summer program. In addition, I'm guessing that if you're only at 3rd year level now, you've never spent an extensive amount of time in China (or Taiwan). PhD programs are likely to see that as important - I know I was asked about the extent of my experience in China by potential advisors when I was applying.
    Here's the good news - you will have more opportunities to learn Manchu, and probably cheaper ones. It's certainly not formally taught all that many places, but an increasing number of Qing historians know it and can instruct you in it (the good PhD programs at which you could learn it as a PhD student definitely include Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Michigan, Georgetown, Pittsburgh and the University of Washington, at the least. And if you ended up at, say, Columbia, it would be reasonably easy to commute to Princeton to study it). And any potential advisor who is interested in a student who wants to work on Manchu identity is pretty likely to be in the group that knows Manchu. I think it's great that you're enthusiastic about starting Manchu, and I certainly hope you continue in that path, but it's not worth the rather large additional expense to do it now. There will be more opportunities! Feel free to get in touch with me if you have more specific questions - I'm always happy to do what I can to encourage Manchu study.
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