js17981

Anyway, I'm out. It seems like I made a mistake posting here, and I do sincerely apologize. To those of who you responded in earnest, even if it was to tell me how I'd made a dumb mistake, I appreciate it. There were some interesting responses and it's cool to hear others' experiences. My grad school experience, which was, believe it or not, really fun and fulfilling, was isolating at times, for reasons having to do with both my program and myself. To those of you who called me names...don't do that. Just as a general life rule, I mean. See ya.

I've done this. Only had the opportunity to do so twice, though. One ended up going on to a PhD, the other didn't. I'm not trying to convince myself of any moral superiority for posting on a message board. I was genuinely curious about why people get PhDs in the humanities. And I got some great, interesting answers.

Seriously, just to put a finer point on it, cool off with this type of rhetoric. Not because it offends me personally but because I think it's seriously damaging to the thousands of graduate students and adjuncts who really are being exploited.

This is absolutely fair and I'm sorry if my first few posts came across as judgmental. My motivation, as I've mentioned a couple times, was simply that I wish someone had said this to me when I'd started. I understand that 2016 is not 2009 and you all are way more knowledgeable about the state of academia than I was then. But I was also, I'm not ashamed to admit, a pretty naive kid when I started my PhD! I was 23. And I don't mean to imply for a second that anyone here is naive, or is doing the wrong the wrong thing for themselves. As you say, I don't know any of you. What I'd hoped was that some similarly naive kid would see the post, but I also forgot that this is an established community where smart grad students come to discuss graduate school. So in that sense this was a bad forum for it, and that's my fault, and I apologize.

My cohort's still going. It was a small cohort (started at six, there were four of us after year three or so), and I'm the only that's graduated so far. I finished in six years, the rest of them are in their seventh year. I never talked about not my getting my dream job. I may not have been clear, but what I was after was a job with full benefits, a longer-than-nine-months contract, and some longterm job security. In other words, yes, tenure track. I applied to hundreds of TT jobs and there were definitely a couple dream jobs in there, which of course I did not expect to get. But I was, admittedly, a little shocked when I didn't receive an interview over the course of two full years on the market, including at many places that were basically the opposite of dream job. Quite honestly your response sounds a lot like the teacher-bashing I see elsewhere and wouldn't really expect here. It's my fault, not the system's. That's fine, I accept a large degree of responsibility here. Clearly other people got all those jobs that I didn't. And I'll reiterate, I feel pretty lucky. I came out debt free, I got to teach a bunch of great classes, I enjoyed the research I did. But the "you played the game and lost, loser" thing, while effective as a message board takedown, is just not reflective of reality.

It is a tough question to answer. I don't know that I can. I think I certainly would have wondered about it, too, but I also thought, when I applied to a PhD, that this was one of the very few lines of work that I would be happy in. That was a naive thing to think, I came to realize around two or three years into PhD. And not because I was hating grad work, but because I realized it was just sort of a limiting way to think about myself and my career options.

If you tell me how I've failed to do this, I'm 100% willing to listen. What motivated me to post it, was, as I pointed out above, the hope that someone who resembled me 6-7 years ago, might hear it and (ideally) not apply to PhD programs. In other words, it was a case of learn from my mistake. I made a huge mistake. That doesn't mean you did, or anyone else in this thread did. But I know a lot of other people who made similar mistakes. And I figure it's statistically likely that at least one of them lurks this thread. I'm out of the academic job market, have been for a year. So I'm not sure what my fear of competition would have to do with this. And I really don't have an idea of what the patriarchy has to do with this? I'm sorry, I suck at this board and don't know how to quote twice within a post: "I'm going to say something ridiculous here, and the OP is going to hate it: Getting a PhD is the best decision for me because it provides a level of security I have never had. I know that for the next four years I will have a regular paycheck,insurance, respect and responsibility. I still believe that I'm in a field that's generally "market proof" (it's not as good as it was even five years ago, but there were still more R/C jobs than English jobs this year, for a smaller number of graduates). I'm only considering programs with 90% placement rates (not hard at the top 20+ r/c programs, while making sure that I will have opportunities to teach business and technical writing, assume administrative responsibilities, and do other work that isn't as "pure" academically but better situates me for the market as it is developing." I don't hate this at all. I think it's great, and I'm genuinely happy for you, and for anyone who's doing meaningful work that they're passionate about. My OP wasn't addressed to you; it was addressed to the people feeling uncertainty, who maybe are doing an MA/PhD like I did and have the chance to leave after the Master's. Or, like I said, the person who's considering grad school but is on the fence about it. I realize that's not you, or likely anyone who has responded here. But like I said, even one lurker reading it -- that's why I wrote it. "Maybe the question the OP should ask isn't why do we want to be like him, but what are we doing to avoid being the sort of sad, underemployed person who trolls people excited about the opportunity to go on." This was not my intention, and maybe I should have been more clear about my intended audience in my OP. FWIW, I'm not a sad person, or underemployed. My adjunct gig is up at the end of the school year, and after that I'll be moving on. "It's the worst kind of ivory tower blindness that makes people think that their situation is somehow unique. I've worked in industries that collapsed, and saw people who worked 10, 15 years in the field fail to find jobs outside of retail. I've worked with adults trying to raise kids on $8/hr without any real hope of personal improvement or job advancement. I've been on the market as both a college dropout and a college graduate, and experienced difficulty finding 9-5 work in both situations." I never said my situation -- or that of academia -- was unique. I also never said anything about my work history before academia.

That's basically what I did. Once I was in, I knew I was going to finish the PhD ( I did a combined MA/PhD as well). And parts of it were great, for the reasons you mention: I really enjoyed most of the work, I like teaching, I seem to be good at it. I thrive working independently. I guess it was afterwards that it really turned bad for me. I found that I had fewer exit options than I'd planned on. For instance, I applied to a bunch of high schools (mainly private schools that specifically hired faculty with PhDs) and community colleges, and found them just as difficult to get into as four-year colleges. It sounds like your Plan B is more feasible though. I guess it does seem like hysteria, particularly since I am in this position indulging in the job market hysteria, when, as I said, I came out relatively unscathed. When I look back, though, the thing that gets me about it is that all that work was basically for nothing. I always envisioned that I could build on my research, my teaching, etc. Have a career in higher ed, even if it wasn't via the tenure track. Now that that's not happening, I'm doing my best to not live in the past or be continually filled with regret, but it's hard not to think there are many other things I am equally passionate about (and there are, even I wasn't bothering to identify them in the last decade) that I could've pursued in the context of a sustainable career. I moved to another city for grad school, one I did not necessarily want to live in, which I don't regret. That alone was an important experience. But I also know I could've found meaningful work in my home city, and spent way more time with my close friends over the last decade. I guess the silver lining is that (I think) I've learned the things that I want/need in a career, by virtue of the fact that I was not able to acquire them in academia.

Cool, thank you. That seems like a smart way to approach things. Good luck. By the way I don't mean to imply that people's defensiveness or dismissiveness in response to my OP is unjustified. Like I said, it's certainly the reaction I had for a number of years. But I've watched so many people crash and burn around me, and have experienced my own fair share of crushing defeat and misery as a result of academia, I'd feel bad just not saying anything. Of course, I recognize my anonymous voice doesn't amount to much, particularly when there's an ever-growing bibliography of 'don't go to grad school' think pieces to choose from. But, if it's useful to anyone, particularly those of you who haven't yet started grad school, I am happy to answer questions about my experience, what led to me leaving academia, etc.

Nevermind, I guess you both did answer that question when you said your reasons aren't my concern. That's fair enough, but it sort of confirms my suspicion that you are all basically me in 2009. I seriously hope you'll reconsider, for no other reason than your own health, happiness, and longterm best interest, but if you're inclined to read my posts as trolling or otherwise insincere, I can't do anything about that. Good luck.

Notice that no one is interested in answering my questions, which is fine, but I'd reiterate that they are sincere questions. They boil down to, given this information Why are you pursuing this course?

Point taken, but then you are being obstinate and foolish in a way that can seriously ruin your life. I'm one of the lucky ones, relatively speaking, and I still feel the need to point this out as an anonymous dissenter on an internet forum. That should tell you something.

This is paranoid, and is also exactly how I responded to these type of threads/articles for the entire time I was in graduate school. The 'why' is simply that because maybe one person will listen, take it to heart, in the way that I wasn't able to, and that most of you don't seem to be able to, either.

Actually it would mean a great deal to me if I were able to convince one person considering this path to choose some other way to spend the next 6-8 years of their life. I really wish someone had tried to convince me of it. Furthermore, I believe that PhD programs are pretty shameful in their inability or unwillingness to address this issue with current and prospective students. Recently I was asked to attend my school's admitted students day (I work as an adjunct at the same school I got my degree from). Couldn't do it in good conscience. By the same token, I can't just sit here silently and watch others walk right into the same disaster that I did. Of course you're free to ignore what I'm saying, but maybe someone else won't. What the person in the 'ponzi scheme' thread was trying to say, it seems to me, is true, and worth considering: These universities will exploit you, and that's all they'll do. For what it's worth, I'm going to be fine. I've carved out an alternative path, and my life isn't ruined forever. I'm lucky that I don't have debt. But I regret getting a PhD. The whole system is set up to damage people, and I wish I'd known that going in.

Hey all, I just read the "Grad School Ponzi Scheme" thread. To be honest, I haven't visited this site since 2008, when I was applying to grad school. I came here to make a post pretty similar to the OP of that thread. After reading the thread, it's clear that all or most of you understand that there are no tenure track jobs available. So rather than post a long rant or plea, I'd like to sincerely know: What is it you all plan to do when you graduate with your PhD? Are you just doing the PhD because it amounts to (paid) time spent pursuing the subject you love? Or do you have career goals for post-graduation that do not involve a tenure-track job? Just genuinely curious to know why you would pursue a PhD knowing that you won't get a tenure track job. Because you won't get a tenure track job. If you're interested in 'alt-ac,' that's something you need to pursue from day one of grad school. It doesn't really work as a plan B. At least it didn't in my experience. I graduated from an English PhD program ranked somewhere between 5-10 last year. Started my PhD in 2009. I was naive and dumb did not do my research then, and the 'crisis in the humanities' wasn't quite as dominant a discourse as it is now. I'm in the process of leaving academia. I spent two years on the job market. This school year, I adjuncted. Adjuncting is a miserable, degrading experience. Since July 2014, I've applied to over 200 tenure-track jobs, and I was invited to zero interviews. During my grad career, I published in top journals and was the instructor of record for multiple classes. My professors told me I would be the exception to the job market rule; that there are some TT jobs, and someone has to get them. Obviously that didn't turn out to be the case. Many of you are making a huge mistake, and it's the same mistake I made. "We already know the job market sucks" is, I guess, a response to my point, but then it begs the question of, if you know that, why on earth are you doing this? It seems insanely self-destructive.