outflare
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Posts posted by outflare
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On 4/5/2017 at 10:29 PM, Three21 said:
@outflare Agree with all this. And it looks like we're in a similar spot in terms of established career, so fully funded programs might not make sense. Try to pop back in with your decision after visiting the programs - would love to hear. Ignoring cost, those two programs also majorly differ in curriculum. More studio-style vs academic. So that's something to consider.
I went to the admitted students night on Friday. I have to admit, I was swooning. The other students were fantastic, the professors I met were great, and I got to talk for a while with Gary Shteyngart. In fact, he invited me to sit in on his class (which I am). I know there are haters out there (I just don't get it but it's a fact) but damn if I am not pretty excited at the possibility of going there. Debt be damned.
I'm looking forward to the New Schools event this week. It'll be a smaller cohort, but I'll hopefully get a chance to really get to know the program better. After that, it's decision time.
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Related: I was surprised to learn that New School only requires 9 credits per semester. That seems a bit low to me (I received my masters in art education a while ago and we did 15 a semester). I too am drawn to the rigorous amount of classes at Columbia, and when one of their professors called me about my acceptance, the academic nature of the program was something he brought up several times, as was the ability to take classes in many (not all) "regular" Columbia courses. I asked about taking a class on contagious diseases and/or childhood trauma (relevant to the novel I want to write) and he said it was entirely possible. I did a little nerd dance in the office!
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@banana_pancakes @Scheherazade @Three21
First, thanks for your comments! I'm taking a lot of info in during this process, considering pros and cons on all arguments. Even though we've never met, your words still carry weight. Truly. I even read your posts to my partner as she helps me through this process.
I can understand a lot of the hesitation about the money. Believe me, it's a major consideration and concern. But at the same time, I'm not worried about my life post-graduate school. I've got a good, solid career right now as a designer, and it's something I love (thought not as much as writing). I fully intend to freelance during my degree period, and when I graduate I know I'll be able to dive back into that world. I have very realistic expectations about life post-graduate school. I don't intend on just getting any job in the literary world to be involved. Frankly, I'd probably make less money than I do as a designer. And, living in NYC, a pay cut isn't that great of an option.
Why go, then? Two simple reasons: to be a better writer (that I believe, for me, can only be accomplished through a graduate program) and to gain contacts, both on the artistic and business side of the industry. This is my first round of applications and I got into my top two programs. Waiting another year, looking elsewhere (I've got a partner to consider), etc doesn't appeal to me. I can understand why a younger person (I'm practically an old fart) would consider those things, but I want to get into it. Sure, the cost is intimidating. But ultimately I want to be in the best program I can be in (for me) and if that means incurring a lot of debt...well, that's something I might take a chance on. Or not! I'll be deciding in the next two weeks. Yikes! Thankfully my partner is exceptionally supportive, and whatever choice I make is good with her.
I will say this world is totally new to me, and I've been surprised at how competitive and catty it can be, even when just considering graduate schools. There seems to be a lot of resentment out there either by rejected, underfunded, or "neglected" (a word that was used by someone I spoke with) people out there. Or people that feel their school was better/worse/just as good as X school. My thought: it's all good. School A not floating your boat? Great! But don't take it down to prop yourself up. Have a bad experience with School B? That sucks. But please don't try and make sure others have one too. School C reject you? Sorry. But don't try and discourage others. Ultimately, it's about finding your path, and if others can't respect that then I would question that person, not your choice.
Sorry, it's just that it's been an eye-opening experience. The design world, at least in my experience, is about collaboration and propping each other up. Really! I'm disappointed in some of what I've encountered, but not all.
Last bit: I think I'm realizing also that the cohort is crucial, to me. Today I was at New School and met a handful of my (potential) fellow students. I'm excited to meet a larger sampling next week at their admitted students event, as well as the one at Columbia. Who I will be learning with is as important to me as who I will be learning from. If I want my sword sharpened, the stones will be all around me, not just at the front of the classroom.
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On 3/26/2017 at 11:43 AM, Three21 said:
@outflare looking for other posters considering Columbia, thoughts? I think you mentioned it!
Sorry, I've been offline for a while. I got in to both Columbia and the New School. Bottom line, for me:
I'm leaning toward Columbia. I have a few friends that are writers/teachers and they've all pointed me in their direction. I'll quote from an email from someone I respect greatly:
Okay, to your questions. My former students who've enrolled at New School complain about it. This is a few years ago, though, and they are hardly a statistical sample. Columbia is far more prestigious and the truth is you'll get access to teachers there who are major league. The thing is if you go to Columbia don't work with the adjuncts--even though they are famous. Try to work with Sam or Ben Marcus or someone on the permanent faculty.
That said, Columbia is expensive. I hope they gave you financial aid? If not, that would be the one thing that would make me hesitate. The truth is, though, when you look at who is really succeeding out there--Columbia (or Iowa or Hunter) is often their starting point. It would be wrong of me not to acknowledge that.
And, last night I had dinner with a dear friend who is, to put it mildly, a head honcho in the publishing world. She also invited along a colleague of hers, who is also a head honcho in the publishing world (I will be utilizing these contacts in a couple of years!). Both of them work with major authors, and publish Big Deal Books. And both said to me that I should only consider Columbia if I'm considering schools in New York. One told me that if he gets a phone call about a manuscript from a contact of his at Columbia, he will put it on the top of his pile. I asked him if he would do the same for New School, and he said he never gets calls from there. Again, both of these people work at a big publisher here in NYC. Their words carry a lot of weight with me, since ultimately my goal is to publish a book.
All that said, I made enough money last year that my FAFSA was a nightmare against me. So this fancy degree will put me seriously into debt. But, surprisingly, I'm okay with that.
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@Sleam, I'm sorry to hear that. I hope this doesn't discourage you in the long-term. Speaking for myself, I was hit harder than I expected and stopped writing for a couple of weeks when I got my first round of rejections. I've heard this can be a many-round process, though.
@Beta Mike, congrats! Fully funded! And Iowa isn't that bad.
I lived in Chicago for a long time, and Iowa was a frequent visit locale.
Gah. Still waiting to hear back from two schools before deciding what to do next. Hopefully I get my official offer (versus the phone conversation I had last week) from Columbia by the end of the week. I'd love to be going to school in the fall, but I'm not sure i'm willing to go into a mountain of debt for it. As I said earlier, seeing all the discussion about fully funded schools has turned my thought process around.
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1 hour ago, oc.bmjc said:
@oc.bmjc Really interesting that you say that about NYU. I applied, but when my partner asked me to rank the five schools I was applying to in terms of preference, I forgot to mention NYU. When she pointed that out, I knew it was my last choice! When I was at their open house, I just couldn't see myself there (though I applied anyway). There's just something about the environment of the place that didn't feel "right."
I've heard the same about Hunter, and I would have loved to have been mentored by Peter, Liam, and Tea. Alas, it wasn't meant to be. The school itself wasn't very impressive, but the program was.
Talked to a nice fellow at Columbia today, I'm in. Frankly, it depends on what I hear from New School and Brooklyn, though from the beginning Columbia has been my (secret) first choice. I know it's a bigger program, but I'm pretty independent, and there is something about the academic expectations that I love. I thrive in those situations.
Should I just assume that New School and Brooklyn are out? Crazy that I haven't heard from them, so that could mean I'm on some list or, worse...forgotten!
Thanks for your summation. It fit in with what I had heard in many, many ways. Especially the NYU thing.
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14 hours ago, aridari said:
Hi all. Here's my two cents on unfunded programs, based on my personal experience.
I graduated last year from an unfunded MA program at a prestigious university. To say I have come out of the program extremely unsatisfied with the entire experience would be an understatement. It's more that I regret it, honestly.
In my department, the difference in quality of education, interaction with faculty, resources, and basically everything you can think of was laughably and noticeably huge between the PhD students and MA students. We weren't allowed to take certain courses. We had limited access to the department library. We had very little time with faculty. Almost no one was there to help us with our theses. We had only one advisor taking care of MA things. The PhD students, on the other hand, had no such restrictions, and had access to time and resources and people without question.
I took classes at that university's mfa program, and found that some of the students there were not happy with their own situations as unfunded students. The debt is substantial, there's competition and some resentment between the funded and unfunded students. This is a program many people want to attend. I also found that this disparity in education and care was not unique to my department or to the mfa program. This was a very wide issue in a variety of different departments at the university I attended.
This is not to glorify the PhD students. They had their own issues, and very big ones at that. But when it comes to money, and whether or not you're funded, I have found that it almost directly correlates to the quality of education you get. You'd think it would be the opposite, considering how much higher education is.
This is not an authoritative post. I am not going to tell you not to attend an unfunded program based on what I say. I don't know what the unfunded mfas are like, and if they are worth the money, since I did not attend one; many factors like faculty and time and such should go into that decision. But the disparity in money in my program translated into a difference in care, in quality of instruction, and it gave me massive stress and insecurity. I am not proud of my debt, even if people are impressed with my degree. In my opinion, funding does unfortunately go hand in hand to how much the department and it's faculty will care about you, and therefore how much you will learn.
I got into the new school mfa my first round with a personal email and a somewhat nice scholarship. But I was unwilling to chance a similar experience I had in my MA, and I found no guarantees the debt was worth it for me.
I hope this was useful to you all. And of course, this is my experience and what I have learned from it. Take it, if you'd like. And good luck to us all, for the rest of this season.
Now you've gotten my curiosity! You reference prestigious university and the New School in the same post, so I'm assuming you meant Columbia or NYU?
I have a phone call today with Columbia (I'm assuming it means I'm in), and am waiting to hear back from the New School (as well as Brooklyn College). If you regret Columbia...oh boy, that would be good to know. I know a couple of people that graduated from there, and one of them have had (mostly) positive things to say, and the other is a published author. But that's purely anecdotal, of course.
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31 minutes ago, manandcamel said:
@outflare Draft is a group on Facebook, not here. Search "MFA Draft '17" and ask to join.
Ah. I see. I'll avoid it then. I've found Facebook groups to be rather toxic. Thanks for the reply though!
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Oy! I hadn't heard of Draft. I'm tempted to seek it out.
Sorrows to everyone that got rejection letters, though I fully agree that self-care trumps (uh, not that one) acceptance letters any day.
Also, congrats @Sleam!
EDIT: Couldn't find that forum (but found a lot of fantasy football ones). Anyone have a link?
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Just found this place after Googling to inquire about application results. I live in NYC and applied to the following:
Brooklyn College
Columbia University
Hunter Collage
The New School
NYUSo far, I've been rejected by Hunter and NYU.
This is my first go-round with applications, and truth be told I've only been writing for a couple of years. I think I was over-ambitious in thinking that I could write a handful of short stories then apply to some of the top writing schools. If nothing else it got me focused, and in the process I learned that I want to really pursue this.
Still, those rejection emails hurt! Anyone waiting on Columbia, BC, or the New School? I'm emotionally prepared for rejections from all of them, but still it'd be nice to have one yes. I will say that I've learned a lot just skimming these forums for the past hour or so. I need to be more strategic in my applications, and think seriously about funding.
Best of luck to those of you still waiting. It's trouble on the mind, it is.
Fall 2017 MFA
in Literary
Posted
I think, for me, the lesson I learned is that I can't base the value of my work on the opinions of a few schools. After a few rejections, I wound up getting into my first choice and I've had the best time just looking at classes, connecting with my future cohort, etc. But damn if I didn't feel like giving up--on writing, not just schools--after the first rejection. I remember telling my partner I should just abandon this pipe dream.
So if you've been turned down, or didn't get into your first, second, etc choice I say continue not just to write but to believe in the value of what you're doing. Art is necessary, and you're a part of that need.