Church Mouse

The M.Div. is a ministerial degree. While highly academic, it is the basic degree you would earn if becoming a minister is your goal. The M.A.R. is a basic academic degree and not meant for a would-be minister, but possibly for someone looking toward doctoral work exclusively. The S.T.M is an advanced degree for someone who is already a minister and would like to sharpen his/her skills and/or go on to doctoral work. Since you are not looking to be a minister, you would probably be looking at the M.A.R. I don't know much about Yale, to be honest. However, you might want to check out Fuller. They have a Theology and the Arts concentration in their M.A. in Theology program. I hope this helps. :-)

It's more than a little disheartening that there isn't much funding out there for programs between the MDiv and the PhD. After getting this far, there really isn't a lot of room left in our lives for more loans. I'm also in a denomination without resources for funding me through. They're spending most of their money on church planting and missions. I cannot begrudge them that at all! I'll just have to lean a little heavier on the other parts of my application. Those other parts are very good, but as the GPA is such a standardized requirement I had hoped to find a safety net in funding. I am a woman, and I don't know why women need or deserve more scholarships than men. I think the funding bodies just want more women in the field because we are a bit of a scarce breed there. However, as I need funding as much as anyone, I'll take a woman specific scholarship if I can find one. We all take what we can get. That being said, the gender particularity in scholarships does go both ways. We all deal with it. With funding sources being so specific and scattered to the four winds, it's just plain frustrating to find whatever suits the individual. That is why I asked for help from others in the same boat. There really should be a website where the various funding bodies can list their scholarships, grants, etc. Perhaps someone about to study business should take that on. The Craig's List of graduate funding, as it were. It would make life easier for both the funders and the students. Thanks for the input everyone. I guess this is an area we all struggle in, not just me. Good luck to all of you!

3.2 No, I do not plan to take out loans. I wasn't going to take out loans for the MDiv, but I kinda got backed into a corner on that and I'll still be paying on those when it's time for the next degree program. There must be a better way to find grants than through a Google search. I must be missing something.

I've figured out that I need to do a ThM or STM or MTS or some such in preparation for a PhD. With a lower GPA, I will probably not qualify for a funded grad program. It would be lovely if the other parts of my application outweigh the GPA, but I'm not going to hold my breath. So, where does a starving student-to-be go for grants for studying theology? I have done the usual Google search and come up with a few possibilities and tons of articles that are not extremely helpful. If you have been here before and discovered some gold mine of a resource, please enlighten me. I would really appreciate some good pointers.

I am wondering what jobs a D.Min. is likely to get offered versus a Ph.D. or a Th.D. I understand roughly that the D.Min. is for practical theology and the Ph.D. and Th.D. are for more academic pursuits of theology. Is it really that cut and dried; get a D.Min. if you want to be a practitioner or a Ph.D./Th.D. if you want to teach? I know it is not unheard of for a D.Min. to end up teaching, but is that rare? If I were to get a D.Min. what would my job prospects be? What might Ph.D.s and Th.D.s do other than teach?

Please tell me what you mean about the "regional element" of the tiering of schools.

I have looked at where professors have earned their degrees. That does help. A professor friend of mine at my church said the same thing about Dallas. All my favorite profs at my seminary were from Dallas, so I already like the product. But, I would like some versitility in my job prospects. I didn't think of getting a list of where graduates have gone from either the dean or my prof of choice. I will keep that in mind. Lots to think about and little time to do it in. Thanks for all the help!

Awesome! Thanks for the tip. I'll go read it.

Okay, here's another question for y'all. Either I'm really green or the industry's a-changin'. I have begun to see the term "constructive theology" crop up in my travels across school websites. Wikipedia, our *trusted* source of all generalized knowledge, has this to say about it, "A potential problem underlying such study is that in constructing a system of theology, certain elements may be left out, or "forced" in order to maintain the coherence of the overall system... While not a proponent of the language of 'constructive theology,' Karl Barth frequently criticized the practice of systematizing theology or structuring a coherent system upon a philosophical foundation external to theology's own internal commitments." While I acknowledge the inherant inability of systematic theology to put the mystery of God into neat, little boxes, I alway thought a good systematic theologian would be flexible enough to allow for mystery in his/her working systematic theology and that rooting out logical fallacies and deviations from biblical theology was a necessary part of the work of systematic theology. So, is Wikipedia off it's rocker (offering an incomplete or slanted definition) or is the shift from systematic to constructive theology part of a larger movement, say toward a post-modern approach to theology? I know this question is less about getting into academia as it is about the movements within theological academia, but it is important to know which schools espouse which philosophy of theology if indeed we are not talking about two equivolent terms here. I would appreciate your thoughts and experience on this. Thanks!

Criteria for tiers could be funding, admission slots, professor scholars. What else? Yes, I realize that tiers might be less competitive in theology than in other fields. However, if I am to apply to schools in different tiers, it would certainly help to know how schools are ranked. Late Antique mentioned University of Notre Dame as having a top program. Any thoughts on the other schools I mentioned? I'll go check out the University of Chicago. Thanks for the input both of you!

I have read a lot of talk about first, second, and third tier schools. How are these distinctions made? I assume that this is entirely subjective but based on a general consensus of the academic community. What criteria do people use to determine the "tier" rating of a school? I am particularly interested in these schools for a Ph.D. after a Th.M. or S.T.M. (probably at a denominational school). How would these be ranked? University of Notre Dame--Indiana Wheaton College Graduate School--Illinois Dallas Theological Seminary--Texas Duquesne University--Pennsylvania Trinity Evangelical Divinity School--Illinois Moore Theological College--Australia I am looking for a theologically conservative school with the academic rigor we all want plus an emphasis on spiritual formation that is evangelical, Catholic, or Anglican AND will be respected by the academic community. I know, that is a lot to ask for all in one school. It's that last part that I have trouble gaging. Can you help me out with the whole "tier" and "reputation" thing? It would be much appreciated.

Have you thought about Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield IL? I've heard good things about them in terms of Barth and Trinitarian theology.

Thank you so much for the suggestions! This has been very helpful. So, what I am gathering is that, like most things in academia, it all depends upon the program. But, generally, if I can sight read without too much help from aids like a lexicon I am at an intermediate level. If can read as easily as I read English, I am fluent. Verifying this level varies from school to school. And, for systematics or historical theology (my second fav), Greek, Latin, and modern languages are more important than Hebrew unless I go in for the Eastern writers in which case I would need to pick up the more obscure languages along the way. Have I got the general idea? Hey, Sparky, what languages would you suggest for Early Christianity in an Historical Theology program? Would your advice change any?

Late Antique: It was Koine Greek. Johannine literature is a pleasure to translate. I can sight read John easily most of the time. Paul's grammar gave me more difficulty. My last final exam was to translate a chapter of Galatians with only the lexicon in the back of the UBS and answer comprehension questions about it. I got an A-, but I was the last one left in the room when I finished. I suppose, by Sparky's three cirteria, that would put me at the intermediate level. Sparky: The three criteria really help. What is an LOR? I have seen that elsewhere, but with no explanation. Forgive me, I am a bit of a newbie. Good suggestion on how to describe lingual ability for the CV. Another question for everyone on the topic of languages: What languages are good to study for systematic theology? I have Greek from my M.Div. program and a little Spanish from undergrad. I am working on an unaccredited Latin course right now. I still need Hebrew. I have Aramaic and German on my list of languages to start also. I was also thinking about Coptic. Which languages would you suggest? Where will my time be best spent?

What?! Why?! Please, tell me about how you learned this. That is not what UND's website says.