revtowns
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Posts posted by revtowns
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10 hours ago, Horb said:
So, I just looked at the CLEA information and I do agree that it sends mixed messages. It does say that grantees "receive the same monthly maintenance stipends as for other Fulbright grants in the host country." It also says that funds are not available for transit, test fees, and a few other things. I agree that we should be able to trust Fulbright and, while I don't think they are being deceitful, I do think they need to be more transparent and note that while the amount awarded is technically the same, you aren't being paid a lump sum amount equal to your regular Fulbright amount (which honestly, makes sense consideirng they are paying tuition and for rent, so it should be less than the lump sum monthly amount). They should state you're being paid X amount minus expenses for A, B, C, totaling Y. Do I think they need to list that on the website? No. But I do think it should be included in grantee paperwork or in acceptance emails.
As for what @hobakie said, I agree with some of it, but I do think the tone was way out of line. Fulbright is very clear that the stipend is modest and that, in some cases, it may not be enough to live off of. I'm thinking of those placed in München who can expect to spend almost their entire grant stipend on housing. You certainly should not be expecting to pay down credit card debt or student loans using your Fulbright stipend. We apply knowing the financial limitations of Fulbright and if someone didn't know this beforehand, then I'm led to believe they didn't do their due diligence before applying for the grant. You can find this information by contacting previous Fulbrighters and looking at Fulbright focused blogs.
Additionally, I've seen a few people mention that Fulbright benefits those with wealthy parents or SOs or that Fulbright thinks its prestige and honor is a form of payment. I disagree with these statements. Of all the fellowships out there, Fulbright is the least restrictive on what they want IMO. They don't care that much about GPA, income level, etc. They want people who crave this opportunity and they especially want people who wouldn't be able to have this opportunity without a a funded grant. Sure, some people with have other financial resources if something happens (parents, SOs, etc.) but many of us will not. I know living off of $20,000 in the second most expensive city in the US that the financial struggle is real. I have student loans to pay. I have grocery bills, rent, and utilities to pay. I've learned to be frugal and yet still live life. Perhaps this is a skill set some of us will gain on Fulbright. That said, if someone wants to donate a billion dollars so we all can get paid more, not gonna complain
Agree or disagree with me, but I do hope that future conversations can be less vicious and more helpful and productive.
Thank you for the well thought-out and considerate response Horb! In general Fulbright compensations seem a tad confusing, as they seem clearly designed to pay all living expenses in some countries, but not in others. I wonder if whatever foreign policy calculus they use to determine if a region is "critical" affects this?
Also, part of what is cool about Fulbright is that it does attract so many different types of people at different stages of their lives/careers, but I am guessing that sometimes makes productive conversations about things like money a bit difficult. Haha in any event, pretty sure I will take the CLEA grant and try to tighten my belt this summer while teaching to have some savings for contingencies. Thank you again for taking the time to read and respond.
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5 minutes ago, Horb said:
Probably utilities, the cost of the course, cost of staff, etc.
the website states under different sections that tuition will be fully covered and that "Critical Language Enhancement Award recipients receive the same monthly maintenance stipends as for other Fulbright grants in the host country."
That is all the info that was provided prior to a week ago and I took it to be true. Maybe I should have asked more questions, but still, it is frustrating and misleading...
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17 hours ago, hobakie said:
Since when is a paid fellowship poverty? You know what ,yes, thankfully you will be there autumn and not the summer. I do not have the energy nor tact to respectfully play along with your complaints and excuses. Good luck sir you will need it.
15 hours ago, UnawareInGeneral said:I get that some things are not always clearly spelled out with some fellowships and programs. I had that experience with a couple of the ones I applied to this year. Still, imo you should have asked more questions. I also completely get that you expected, it seems like, to have money to cover something that isn't your living expenses in China. Debt or something I'd guess. At least, I hope so. If not then you really were expecting too much freedom in what you were spending while on a fellowship.
All that aside..... nebulous ideological purposes? You applied for it did you not?
Out of everything you said, this is what really stands out to me.
Were you randomly selected to receive a fellowship without applying? Did you then bullshit the decisions board and tell them you were onboard with their nebulous ideological purposes to get (what you thought was) a free ride for awhile and a prestigious bullet point on your CV?
Sounds like you shouldn't have been awarded the thing in the first place really.
Its like listening to the NSEP scholarship and fellowship people who don't want to do government service after the program is over. Deserve jail time for fraud if hey take tax payer money.
I tried to resist replying to these, but this conversation ended on such cruel and insulting terms that it has left me unable to sleep. Also, I might have to meet both of you some day so I hope to try to end things on a slightly more civil note (and I know I am responsible for some of the incivility) or at least explain myself fully. Anyways, here goes:
As for UnawareInGeneral's comments, I believe my application materials all clearly reflected my politics, which are critical of forces such as colonialism and capitalism and their role in shaping the modern world, forces that the Fulbright are inarguably implicated in at least a bit. Still, kudos to Fulbright for believing in academic freedom and the possibilities of intercultural intellectual exchanges. They do not demand ideological purity like you seem to (throwing people in jail for fraud?!). I can go further explaining my views on Fulbright if you are actually interested (not to mention things like how taxpayer money is used. I mean, shit, I never wanted my tax dollars to pay for drone strikes in Pakistan or bombing Syria or a militarized police force, but here we are), though I might prefer to do so in private messages for obvious reasons. And I definitely do not want to invest any more labor into a conversation that is only going to end in ad hominem attacks and calls for imprisonment.
Yes, there is a contradiction in accepting a Fulbright and being a bit critical of it (also, all I ever said was it had a nebulous ideology, meaning complicated). However, choosing to critically examine the world we live in often reveals that there is no alternative to taking part in what we are critical of, including when one is working on a PhD in the humanities and in constant need to secure chances for research funding (yes I have applied for other grants) in between teaching undergraduates for little compensation and attempting to make “progress.” I know this is the path I chose and I need to accept responsibility for that, but it is also a tiring path as I am sure many people are aware. That path gets more difficult when it turns out the limited amount of possible compensation is less than what one was led to believe, which was all I was posting about initially. I do not think bringing that up makes me entitled or ungrateful. Also, the difficult path does not end after the Fulbright in a lucrative job for me (and I’m sure that’s also the case for many others), it ends in desperately trying to write my dissertation and find a full-time job in the humanities that will allow me to finally pay off my debt.
I am not asking for pity, just a little bit of understanding and not being first dismissed, then condescended to, then insulted. hobakie I hope you can see why I am upset. If you want to talk more in person I am sure we can find a way to do so soon enough. Though I was mad yesterday, I ultimately would prefer there to be no hard feelings and a chance for understanding, if that is at all possible. On the small scale, I think the only way for anything to get better in the world is for people to at least try to understand each other’s positions and to work collectively to make the institutions they are a part of slightly easier for all to navigate. To those ends, I understand your position living in China is cheap and $500 is enough for food and believe you are right. Please listen to mine that it is frustrating to feel mislead about one’s compensation and to be put in a position where the options are to decline a prestigious grant or to take the risk of only having enough money to eat cheaply with next to no safety net (yes, I do have debt repayments that will not stop when I go to China. That is also of course partly my fault, but again, it makes decisions complicated).
I write this both in a heavy-handed spirit of dialogue (and if you take it for condescension, well, you’re probably not entirely wrong there) and with the pragmatic recognition that I might have to room with one of you in DC. Can we please chill out a bit and be nicer to each other, I’m tired.
- jennymerri, Dash123 and lyonessrampant
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9 minutes ago, hobakie said:
1. if you are eating bland noodles everyday in China that's YOUR problem. I have always been able to get good and cheap food, if you are eating the plain stuff you are doing it wrong. Burgers can't always be your go to, it's China fam.
2. We both know sim cards are stupid cheap so don't play as are metro cards, you could also invest in a bike.
3. It's summer not winter.
4. There's also plenty of free and fun things to do in one of the largest countries in the world that don't include partying or drinking. Once again sounds like you are doing it wrong.
5. If the stipend was 500 a month why would you not plan ahead when it comes to credit cards and loans? This isn't the full grant, you can't get full grant benefits, it's an additional language program meant to enhance the project, if you do not think it's economically sound do not go, wait until your year long grant.
You sound very much like the type of person who I dislike when they are in China. "Break teeth on 10 quai dumplings" if you are that weary and afraid and picky of the food why go?
thankfully I will be there in the Autumn. Pretty sure laowai12's general point that things happen in life and money is the only way to deal with them under a system rapacious neoliberal capitalism that has colonized China as much as it has destroyed the public institutions of the United States stands, dumpling point notwithstanding. Glorifying poverty is never a good plan unless one desires the continuance of poverty.
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1 minute ago, HBAGN said:
hi, revtowns!
I'm sorry to hear this.
I don't have any advice, but I wanted to let you know that your frustration seems totally legitimate and justified to me. Of course no one's doing the Fulbright for the money (or for the health insurance!), but I do think we deserve to know what we're getting into. It's a major accomplishment to win a Fulbright, but if you've won, it's only because you're majorly accomplished. There's a clear lack of respect in telling a grantee his or her stipend will be x amount and then expecting them to go along with the program uncomplainingly when the stipend mysteriously is cut in half. Of course, it's possible that funding was cut or the language institute's tuition was sharply increased, but you deserve to have that information clearly communicated to you.
The language institute sounds like a great opportunity, but depending on your personal situation perhaps it's no longer feasible (some Fulbrighters might be getting sweet checks from their parents to help with the expenses, others might be struggling to repay student loans or other debt ...), but I hope whatever you decide you'll have a good and fruitful experience.
best,
Hodna
Hi Hodna,
Thank you so much for this post. Was beginning to feel very politically alienated and pessimistic (haha I should have probably learned to disengage in comment wars at this point). I hope you have a wonderful experience as well!
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10 minutes ago, hobakie said:
Housing and the program is paid for separately. The stipend is for food. What do you mean living on?
Ultimately, just trying to point out that there does seem to be some amount of missing money here if we are to take the Fulbright website at its word? Maybe the Fulbright has never been a particularly generous institution and has always been a bastion of privilege--which has probably helped it to serve its nebulous ideological purposes--can I at least hope it be honest with us?
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5 minutes ago, Horb said:
I'm thinking that maybe it is the cost of the program plus housing which would equal the $1400 amount, but I don't know. If you want, you could ask about it. It isn't like they'll take it away. Just ask for clarification and be able to cite where you got the information from.
I'm not sure what they could be more transparent about. I haven't felt confused by info I've received, but perhaps your experience is different.
I asked and and was told what was taken out was for housing and "incidentals." No idea what the incidentals are though.
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5 hours ago, hobakie said:
I got the CLEA for Harbin summer as well and I do not think the stipend is too low. 500 dollars a month in North China can go a long way. Even if you were to spend 100 kuai a day on food, which is a lot, you'd still have some left over.
Fulbright spent 14,000 for the language program so I do not think being frustrated over a smaller than expected stipend is warranted. It's mentioned many times on this forum but no one should go into Fulbright for the money, there are other much more generous fellowships for that if that's what you want. Additionally part of the grant is learning to survive in the host country. 500 a month is a lot more than some people make in Harbin and they can make ends meet and still eat well and such, you are going to have to adjust to China and learn to be more economic.
I apologize if my post comes off as if I am chastising you, but you should be more realistic about the situation especially given that CLEA isn't a necessity but a privilege.
That's all fine and good, but saying the monthly stipend for a CLEA will be the same as the normal monthly stipend when it's not is in fact misleading (again, unless the housing in Harbin costs $1400 for some reason). As for realism, many people living in Harbin and other parts of China also make far more than $500 per month and I am hoping to return to America from a Fulbright to slog out a meager existence in the precarious economy of academia. I was never hoping to make money off of Fulbright, I just do think the compensation for CLEA grants has been presented in a misleading way that and learning the reality has left me feeling dismayed as my debts look likely to continue to grow if any contingency (medical or otherwise) occurs while in Harbin (and of course nobody is forcing me to take the grant). I also disagree that 100 kuai per day, about $15, is that much money if you have to eat out every meal because your housing likely does not have a kitchen. China is not that cheap. I apologize for my tone, but I also do not think Fulbrighters should need to disregard the precarious nature of the material conditions of these grants purely because of their prestige, especially as we make our decisions. I also think Fulbright could be far more transparent about many things. I know that will probably never change, but can we at least acknowledge those issues as we navigate this seemingly never-ending process?
I realize this all makes me sound like a defensive ass and I suppose I am being one. Maybe coming on this forum with my concerns was not a great idea. I just wanted to raise one of many strange problems that arises when dealing with all of this bureaucracy. Good luck to all as we continue to deal with it and good luck to everyone still waiting on notifications! Look forward to meeting people in June!
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Hi all,
I am super excited to have gotten a CLEA grant for China (in Harbin). Thing is: I am a bit mystified about how they ended up deciding on a $500 monthly stipend. The Fulbright website states that CLEA stipends will be the same as regular Fulbright Stipends for the country in question. Needless to say $500 is much much much less that the regular monthly stipend for China. Apparently the program covers housing in Harbin, so it makes sense that would be subtracted from the stipend, but something tells me my housing is not going to look like something that costs over $1400 per month. Honestly a tad worried about making ends meet. I know it is very possible to eat on $500 a month in China as long as you don't really ever splurge, but what if I need to do anything other than just eat noodles (like I dunno, buy a coat, Harbin is cold)?
Does anyone feel that it is worth trying to argue for a higher stipend? In general I feel super lucky to have been awarded a grant and know that there are many who would want to take my place. That being said, at the very least it's hard not to feel like Fulbright is being a tad dishonest about the level of compensation for CLEA grants on its website (I also haaaaate that they asked me to accept before revealing what the compensation will be). It all feels a bit misleading and even perhaps unethical.
Not sure if there is really any action to take, but I did want to express my frustration and see if anyone else had similar concerns.
Fulbright 2017-2018
in The Bank
Posted
I would hope that the US Fulbright reviewers would not care too much about the politics, even if they are critical of the US (hopefully that won't change in Trump's America), but some in-country reviewers might be sensitive about certain topics and you should be careful about that (for instance, in my statement for China, I changed the wording about the situation in Xinjiang from "colonial," to "complicated'). In general though, I would not change the focus of your project because of political concerns. Just maybe be a bit strategic about how you frame it. Haha also yeah, it does seem like your advisor might not know everything.