GradSchoolGrad
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Posts posted by GradSchoolGrad
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34 minutes ago, zh_awk said:
Thanks for this - I absolutely recognize how competitive the fields are (SP and Education too) and that strong grades in addition to research are important in order to have a fighting chance for tenure-track jobs. I've currently got a 3.8 GPA. In addition to my Master's being close to done, I have many publications in journals and had three under review (2 in soc journals, 1 in an education journal) at the time of applying. One soc paper was accepted in between applying and receiving my waitlist status update in March, which I told the admissions committee when I was first notified of being waitlisted so that they could update my portfolio. I've worked in research for a long long time - all to say, I know I'm a strong candidate (and can of course be stronger).
And, I also recognize Brandeis is a good place but there are far better - I work here full-time and chose to pursue the MPP part-time to avoid having to pay for my coursework AND have taken courses that overlap with the doctoral program, in order to better prepare for a future PhD. I definitely didn't come into this thinking Heller was the absolute best/at the very top or anything, and more or less wanted solid experience at a school that's at least on the map in order to keep moving up over time, but you are reminding me that because of this I have to aim higher to get a tenure-track job in the future.
Brandeis does things interestingly - for the joint degree in SP/sociology, you apply to one program and then the second after you've completed a year in the first. I applied to soc first because there's more funding for longer, and have many relationships with faculty and students in the department. I wasn't accepted off the waitlist this year solely due to funding (the grad admissions committee shared this with me, in addition to the two sociology professors in the department who wrote rec letters for me), and I made the mistake of putting all my eggs in one basket with Brandeis. Having established connections and strong relationships with faculty and professors in both departments here over the past 5 years is what compelled me to focus in on Brandeis, but I'll likely apply to top schools next round that also have joint degrees, including Duke, Brown and HKS, all of which my research mentor has lamented I didn't go for this year, believing I would have had a high chance of acceptance. Who knows if that's really true though! I'll find out next year.
A follow up question for you - it sounds like you're also saying a PhD in SP wouldn't be redundant after finishing my MPP, am I understanding that correctly? I think the joint degree is still best for me, given the sociology side gives me an academic element to the degree, and the type of research I want to carry out is based in sociological theory. But, I could be wrong - perhaps a PhD in just sociology would suffice? Thoughts?
And - what other schools would you consider true "top" programs? I'm preparing for next year already and want to begin connecting with professors whose research fits my interests at schools that I should apply to this time around.
Thanks!
I am afraid of feeding the beast here but to answer you question straight forwardly - if you want a shot in hell of getting a tenure track position, you get a PhD period. Honestly, it doesn't matter what it is in - it is more important that you have a funding and faculty who are willing to support you. It would have been easier if you did it straight from undergrad, but getting it with an MPP is a worn track that has been done before. If you are okay with being an adjunct for life via teaching you can live with a Masters degree. Also, you might get by a community or lower end regional college as a visiting faculty member.
Right now, I think you are misguided in that you are thinking too much about getting into schools and not about the outcomes for teaching. You are basically the same as a D2 College football player who thinks he can make the NFL (it happens, but odds are crazy stacked against you). I think working there doesn't help because most people I know who work at a University drink the Kool-aid until it is too late.
First of all - pure theory is over saturated and becoming less and less popular among all the fields that relevant to you (Policy, Sociology, and lets add in Political Science for fun). If you want to do non-quant, you better be at the tip top of your game (and its more than just the # of publications that matter, but the quality of publications, and I hope you got academic rock stars supporting you - both in and out of Brandeis). Even if you go to HKS/Harvard Sociology, UC Berkeley, or Columbia - you are still heavily in danger of falling into becoming an adjunct because the market for non-quant in humanities is simply awful. What makes it worse for you is that you would be competing with Ed, Policy, Sociology, and maybe Econ people for teaching roles.
Honestly, I find tenure professors to not be the best advisors because they have made it and are living relatively fat and happy. They are less empathetic to the plight of young academics these days and too often promote false hope. What I recommend you do instead is talked to other Heller MPP grads who went the PhD route and see where they have been (you can check LinkedIn) - and ask them if it was worth it. -
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28 minutes ago, Andromeda23 said:
Sounds dramatic, she does have a really impressive resume though. I’m mostly interested in healthcare financing and health insurance reform, so I think I should be fine in Georgetown.
Ya… you would be fine almost anywhere. There is huge need for those interested in healthcare. It was scary how some of my less capable classmates got some solid jobs by shooting for healthcare policy.
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Any feedback on future content you would like or what existing content you liked or didn’t like?
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9 minutes ago, Andromeda23 said:
Yeah Professor Feder, she ran for congress in Virginia. Her work is mainly in health insurance reform. I see what u mean when u make the distinction between healthcare access and public health.
Ya… she had a following, not as big as Schone though. She is one of those professors that Georgetown keeps around, but lost favor with the administration because of political infighting (long story made short, Georgetown had another policy program for a few years because she wanted to limit the Graduate School of Public Policy at that time more limited to an academic focus and less of a professional program.
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37 minutes ago, Andromeda23 said:
Kinda odd to see Public Health, a policy area that’s so often talked about, in the same sentence as Space Policy. Is Georgetown poor in that policy area?
So McCourt is interesting when it comes to public health. You have four professors (which is a lot) that specialize in it. Professor Schone, Mitchell, Delaire, and one more that is escaping me (although she once ran for office). With the exception of Mitchell, they all look at Healthcare in terms of healthcare access. Mitchell specializes in medical Mal-practice. The bottom line issue is that McCourt Health policy lives in a vacuum without any real connection to the medical school or Georgetown's nursing or healthcare management program. There is also no public health school in Georgetown. Thereby, if you want to go beyond policies involving healthcare access, say global health, lead reduction, disease prevention, gun violence, and etc - GWU and their public health program is where you want to go.
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6 hours ago, zh_awk said:
I'll be completing my Masters in Public Policy by next spring, and am thinking about programs to pursue after that (I applied to a joint degree in sociology and social policy this past cycle and was waitlisted/ultimately rejected). I will likely apply to the sociology program again, but am wondering if having a PhD in social policy, on top of the MPP, is a good option to consider.
For background - I'm looking to a career in academic, as a professor, focusing on research surrounding education policy reform. I've enjoyed taking a sociological angle at studying this work thus far (I'm published and continue to do research in this space outside of my full-time job/school). However, I recognize that I could approach grad school in various ways in order to get to this goal - one of which may be considering a social policy PhD.
My question is, would this be redundant after the MPP? The university I'm currently at (Brandeis) has a very strong social policy program; however, there's overlap in my MPP courses and PhD courses (maybe 5 of those I've taken so far are also doctoral core or elective classes).
A second question - what types of other PhD programs should I consider applying to? For example, I'm now wondering if an Ed.D or PhD in education could be good options.
I'd love any suggestions or insight into this, thanks so much in advance!
The odds are greatly stacked against you in getting a tenure track academic position, even if you went to a top PhD School for Social Policy or Education. Those two areas are basically over-saturated with PhD candidates and the academic roles, even in an R2 university are crazy competitive.
Also, please appreciate, even though Brandeis Heller seems to do well for US News rankings, in the grand scheme of things, it is only good with social policy from an applied and local angle. If you want to work for a local Research Institute after graduation from PhD, that could work out. Unless you are the one black swan a year that manages to leap frog with super ground breaking research, your chances at getting tenure track at a major University from Brandeis Heller PhD will be rough.
I don't know what it is but everyone I meet going to Brandeis Heller are like college athletes who all think they are going to the NBA or NFL. At this point, it is great you have research published, but unless you have an A- GPA average to with that as well, getting a PhD with funding at a top program will be pretty rough. If you manage to go to a top Program (like a real top Program, and not what US News says), then your risk becomes less. -
1 hour ago, zh_awk said:
I'll be completing my Masters in Public Policy by next spring, and am thinking about programs to pursue after that (I applied to a joint degree in sociology and social policy this past cycle and was waitlisted/ultimately rejected). I will likely apply to the sociology program again, but am wondering if having a PhD in social policy, on top of the MPP, is a good option to consider.
For background - I'm looking to a career in academic, as a professor, focusing on research surrounding education policy reform. I've enjoyed taking a sociological angle at studying this work thus far (I'm published and continue to do research in this space outside of my full-time job/school). However, I recognize that I could approach grad school in various ways in order to get to this goal - one of which may be considering a social policy PhD.
My question is, would this be redundant after the MPP? The university I'm currently at (Brandeis) has a very strong social policy program; however, there's overlap in my MPP courses and PhD courses (maybe 5 of those I've taken so far are also doctoral core or elective classes).
A second question - what types of other PhD programs should I consider applying to? For example, I'm now wondering if an Ed.D or PhD in education could be good options.
I'd love any suggestions or insight into this, thanks so much in advance!
Bottom line, if you want a tenure track position, it really helps for you to go to top program with funding + awesome research or else you will be more at risk of being one of those academics saddled with debt and fighting for pennies. I hope you have amazing grades and manage to move on to a new school better school for PhD in any of those.
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2 hours ago, CCZZ said:
Hi! I am having trouble deciding between McCourt MPP and SIPA MPA. I am international, interested in health policy, social policy, specifically in implementation of projects, not research. The cost of both programs is similar with the scholarships.
About McCourt: There is a field of public health in the electives. I love the city. Planning to stay the opt year, so I will have several opportunities to find a good internship + job that year. Have family in Virginia. No problem with quants. Few internationals
About SIPA: I prefer this curriculum, more options for specializations, though there is not one of public health. More international network. BUT the cost is too high, I am going with my family. I don't like to pay more only for the brand. Does SIPA worth it?
It's been weeks thinking about it! Already dismissed Chicago because of weather and quants, am I wrong??
McCourt might actually be the better program for you, since as an international student, you will want to be quant focused if you want to stay in the US. Non quant jobs are usually attained by US students. New York is crazy expensive with rent sky rocketing right now.
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1 hour ago, atover said:
Okay just about 48 hrs till the decision deadline and I am totally torn between UChicago Harris and Georgetown McCourt. I want to focus on education policy and I’m debating what exactly I want to do after but I know I don’t want a PHD.
Harris Pros
- they have me the best funding (40,000)
- I really liked the school when I went to accepted students day last weekend.
- they seem to have more of a focus on domestic policy and there seem to be a lot of opportunities for education policy.
Harris Con
- I don’t really like Chicago and I’m a little concerned about safety on and around the UChicago Campus.
-Math Camp and Coding: I’m not good at math and don’t have a quant background. I got an A in college stats but that’s the only math I’ve taken since HS.
- it’s further away from home.
McCourt Pro
- I like that the school seems really plugged into DC. I might want to go into politics one day and I think there might be better internships
- I’m interested in the DC consortium and being able to take classes at other local schools
- I was really interested in the presentation from GU politics during admitted students day
- They have a new graduate housing building with a free shuttle and included utilities which is a big perk.
- it’s closer to where I live now (Boston area) and I have some extended family and a friend in town already. Making friends as an adult sucks lol
McCourt Cons
- there didn’t seem to be as much of a focus on education policy there and that is my focus area.
- they gave me less money (19,000 vs 40,000)
I am honestly so torn I’m about to just flip a coin and be done with this. ?
U. Chicago Harris is the easy option... UNLESS for some reason you want to touch Education from a Capital Hill legislative angle or national perspective research (that frankly doesn't exactly make actionable impact and best can scenario gets referenced on some paper).
Here is some context to your McCourt Pros:
1. It is plugged into politics - the University at large, not exactly McCourt. If you want to go to Capital Hill, get paid really poorly + be treated poorly, only partial focus on education, and network your way up - with the help of the Georgetown Mafia - McCourt is the better option. If you want to become a politician one day, be a lawyer and/or have a grass roots base. There are MPPs who become politicians, almost all of them are dual degrees with JD or MBA, worked in capital hill, or went home to a strong grass roots network.
2. The DC consortium is interesting, but honestly unless you want to do something really niche - like space policy or public health, there is no real reason to utilize it. I saw mostly people coming to Georgetown for classes. I only knew of one person ever leaving Georgetown McCourt for classes and that was to do things for Public Health. Bottom line, among all the schools in Georgetown, you got the major classes covered. You are better off using your time doing research/getting an part time internship.
3. GU politics is really primarily for undergrads. The only people from McCourt that did GU politics and translated it to a career were those straight from undergrads trying to pivot into campaigns and fund raising. Beyond that, its essentially a distraction for grad students, and most GU politics alum from McCourt will tell you so.
4. It doesn't make sense for you to live in graduate student housing until Fall of 2024 (I'm hoping you graduate in Spring of 2024), when they plan to start McCourt classes in their long awaited downtown campus. If you want to have a crazy long commute, that is up to you. Until then, it makes more sense for you to live closer to the main Georgetown campus.
5. When you are in grad school, you will be consumed by grad school. A few visits can happen here and there, but not as often as you think. Flying between Chicago and Boston and DC and Boston is not that much of a time difference.
As for cons:
McCourt doesn't really do education well from a local and state perspective. McCourt also isn't exactly in the forefront of education innovation. Unless you want to focus on education from a broad based national level, there is not exactly a McCourt advantage to education. Also, the Eduwonks club is one more the more clique student groups out.
Note about math... trust me, the math might be painful on the front end, but it will differentiate you in the job market, and give you more flexibility. I mean both McCourt and U. Chicago are quant intense, so its a wash.
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On 4/8/2022 at 2:45 PM, OdileM said:
I am almost in the same situation except that I am interested in economic development, international development/program evaluation and public-private sector partnerships! I received full funding from both Yale’s Jackson and McCourt at Georgetown. I don’t know which one to go for???
McCourt's international development/program evaluation is tied distinctly with Professor Franck Wiebe. You either like his style or don't like his style (and I know people in both camps). I could be wrong, but from what I have been told, it is rather old school. That public-private sector partnership stuff has ballooned of late as a policy innovation, and you would have more freedom at Yale Jackson to research that. However, given the small size of the program, I hope you enjoy taking the initiative to do things on your own rather than having a huge IDEV cohort to help you out.
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On 4/6/2022 at 11:06 PM, Undecided_Grad said:
Hello everyone! I am in an incredibly fortunate to be in a position where I have to make a tough decision. I need to decide whether to attend Georgetown MSFS with a concentration in Science, Technology, and International Affairs, or attend Yale and earn a Master of Environmental Management. I am hoping to eventually serve as a FSO for USAID, but would be open to other FSO opportunities. Ideally my career as an FSO would have an international environmental focus and I’m very interested in sustainable development and climate change adaptation and mitigation internationally. I’m having a hard time comparing the programs, as they are fairly different.
Ignoring for just a moment other aspects, such as on campus experience, funding, etc., is anyone familiar with these programs and can please provide some guidance on what might serve me best for my career?
Thank you so much for your help!
So ultimately, this is about what you care about more. Georgetown is tops for international, but only very recently has educational material focused on sustainability - and a lot of it is in the business school (but you can take classes there and do projects there). If you want to go international with the understanding that you might shoot for sustainability, but very realistically get sidetracked to the needs of the government, Georgetown MSFS makes sense for you.
Yale MEM is obviously tops for sustainability, but only a small small cohort of people focus on it via an IR lens. If you want greater flexibility in the sustainability space, Yale MEM makes sense for you.
Also, please keep in mind, granted an FSO role might take your background in mind, you are generalist no matter what. I know people with a science background who essentially got told to plan a party because they needed someone in that role. Also, as you can imagine, how much the US government cares about sustainability varies by office. Granted, there are lots of sustainability offices, in certain administrations, those people go elsewhere.
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2 hours ago, gradpros12 said:
Hi all! Long time reader, first time poster.
Some background: I’ve about 4+ years of professional experience working in international development. I applied to grad school to gain some quantitative skills that I lack and to explore climate policy. I am open to a career in the US Foreign Service but am also interested in working in the private sector, INGO or UN body afterward.
Any advice/perspective on thinking through these offers is helpful - thank you in advance!
LSE MPA: Unconditional offer. It’s a double degree (still within 2 years) with the University of Toronto (Master’s of Global Affairs). No financial aid, but can afford it without taking loans. I’m most excited about this one because of it’s a relatively small cohort, diverse and international, and affordable.
Syracuse Maxwell MPA/MAIR: full ride merit scholarship. Seems like a solid program based on my research and conversations with students/alumni. But, I’m not so thrilled about being in Syracuse especially after having weathered most of the pandemic in rural Texas.
Harvard MPP: no financial aid. Would need to take about $50K in loans. Can’t deny the brand but I’ve also heard from current students it’s not as academically rigorous.
Also, I think some topics on my podcast works well with your question as well. Starting with this -->
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2 hours ago, gradpros12 said:
Hi all! Long time reader, first time poster.
Some background: I’ve about 4+ years of professional experience working in international development. I applied to grad school to gain some quantitative skills that I lack and to explore climate policy. I am open to a career in the US Foreign Service but am also interested in working in the private sector, INGO or UN body afterward.
Any advice/perspective on thinking through these offers is helpful - thank you in advance!
LSE MPA: Unconditional offer. It’s a double degree (still within 2 years) with the University of Toronto (Master’s of Global Affairs). No financial aid, but can afford it without taking loans. I’m most excited about this one because of it’s a relatively small cohort, diverse and international, and affordable.
Syracuse Maxwell MPA/MAIR: full ride merit scholarship. Seems like a solid program based on my research and conversations with students/alumni. But, I’m not so thrilled about being in Syracuse especially after having weathered most of the pandemic in rural Texas.
Harvard MPP: no financial aid. Would need to take about $50K in loans. Can’t deny the brand but I’ve also heard from current students it’s not as academically rigorous.
I think this is all about what risk you want to take. If you want to keep all your career options open and pay for it, Harvard MPP makes sense (best policy school for private sector - hands down period). If you want to focus on research/government roles and not pay for grad school - Syracuse MaxWell makes sense.
LSE MPA only makes sense if having a job in the US is not a priority.
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19 minutes ago, Gradthrowaway said:
Good call!
but hint I recommend you listen to my podcast about how Policy/IR schools manage themselves as context. Heller just have too many things that don't add up.
1. Their career services marketing doesn't make sense. Their bragging highlights Master's grads who get post-undergrad jobs - that suggests to me confused career services at a minimum
2. Reporting (in the forum and otherwise) of alums/students having poor student experience - not mixed (which is my sentiment about my policy experience), but just straight out not good
3. FSO (for IR) numbers and PMF (for domestic) numbers... these serve as a barometer on if a school is at least decent (with the exception of the elite schools - since they have access to MBB/start up/ venture opportunities). I don't see these numbers in strength for Heller.
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2 hours ago, Gradthrowaway said:
What would you pick? Full funding at both.
If you need a small community, pick Princeton. I would personally pick HKS because I really like interdisciplinary opportunities, which is much more limiting at Princeton. Keep in mind, of people complain that Harvard is so big, it is easy to get lost.
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6 hours ago, grad0 said:
I'm exploring grad programs for Fall 2023 entry and wanted perspective on which programs might be a good fit for me.
Questions:
1. What programs might fit my career/grad goals? Is MPP (or related degree) in line with what I'm thinking?
I'm looking at programs now because I'm feeling the desire to explore, develop a network, and define a more concrete direction. I was thinking about public policy programs like MPP at Harvard Kennedy or MPA/MIA/MPA-DP at Columbia SIPA. I'm not interested in the policy space itself, but rather tackling problems that generally fall in the public or social realm (climate change, city innovation, etc). Looking for the following criteria..
1. Expansive network of peers and alumni across industries, but with likeminded public/social focus
2. Internationally-focused. Not as interested in domestic policy or programming.
3. Focus on developing functional/applied skills (management, data analysis, implementation/delivery) across industries rather than on developing subject matter expertise (in other words, I don't want it to feel like a second interdisciplinary liberal arts degree that's more "thematic" than anything else).
I was thinking about MBAs for how applied they are, but I think I'd find a lot of the content too business-y and miss out on the networks of like-minded people and opportunities. I was also considering the Kennedy MPA-ID but I don't have the quantitative background required/I'm not strictly interested in economics. Would also consider degree in UK at LSE or Oxford, for example.
Thanks
You are asking an impossible question because you have yet to identify why you want a grad degree other than to network and gain some functional skills. The reason why this is problematic because you can learn all the skills you want and get all he network you want, but unless you have a general idea what more specific industries, jobs types, and etc. interest you, no one can really guide you because where you want to end up matters.
Don't get me wrong, I have seen plenty of I just want to go to grad school to network and gain skills types, and they usually end up in the worst jobs because they don't get their act together until last minute or end up in good jobs that they live shortly because it wasn't a good fit.
It's totally okay if you don't have a specific role coming out of policy school in mind, but I recommend you figure out what are some jobs of interest.
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3 hours ago, Gradthrowaway said:
This is an immense service! Thank you so much. I'd love if you did a mini-series about what you know about different schools, including Heller, Princeton SPIA, HKS, McCourt, the Elliot School, and any others you want to talk about! Thanks. ?
I already did a podcast on most of those schools. See the 5 DC area schools and the IR schools podcast.
I know Princeton SPIA - broadly, but not enough to talk about it in detail. I'm tempted to make a Podcast on why Heller is a school to avoid, but would like the Podcast to not outright target any schools negatively.
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Just now, GradSchool96 said:
Thanks for the info! What do you mean by a target on your back?
it can range from light hearted to legitimate tagging (depending on how well you are liked), but people know who is the person that went to Harvard - if you catch my drift.
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Is an MPP and PhD in social policy worth it?
in Questions and Answers
Posted · Edited by GradSchoolGrad
By outcomes, I mean where you land in terms of a job.
I am concerned how you haven't brought up that you goal is to get a tenure track academic position. Because short of becoming a tenure track academic, your ability to make impact in terms of having widely read work, being asked to participate in impactful podcasts, and influencing students with a level of meaningful authority will be limited. More importantly for you, you'll be at the bottom of the barrel in terms of income.
A few adjunct professors make it to tenure track and some see the light and leave academia. However, those who are stuck toiling in adjunct/visiting lecture land aren't the ones that make the impact in the field - no matter how good of a school they went to. Also please keep in mind, no one cares if you discovered a gap in the literature. The only thing that matters if the academic market cares. Is your "gap in the literature" insight significant enough to catapult you to be elevated in Academia. Since it is non-quant oriented, my bet is no, and most likely some random podcast or someone internationally has probably already discussed it.
My recommendation is to think about how you can either a. make the impact you want with an MPP or b. with a PhD but with outcomes focused on working at research institute and not Academia.
Oh by the way, the higher education hiring total numbers will only decrease for tenure track positions because:
a. Professors are living longer and not dying/leaving their positions
b. There is a surplus of academics from the millennial generation
c. Between demographics, decreased interest in college in men, and drawdown of Chinese international students - there are less undergrads to teach
d. Universities are scaling back tenure track positions.
e. And specific for you, too many people like you who all have social policy insights. Not to offend you, but you are a dime a dozen. You might have publications and stuff, but again, unless those are the top publications and you already are getting recognized in the field, you odds for tenure track aren't anything exceptional.