hamnet in tights

I have less hope for me on my end. DGS e-mailed this morning today to say that they're following up with the lone person who hasn't responded, and will have a final decision to me tonight, hopefully. I've been shaking in my boots ever since. I don't know what I assumed prior to them saying that, but I guess that just made the whole scenario all the more... intense.

❤️ I have hope for you, my friend. Have you checked the Rackham program website? A lot of programs at Michigan see a lot of admissions off their waitlist each year.

Were you given an indication of where you are on the list? I'm on a different list at Michigan. Fingers crossed. ❤️

Oh I'm ready. So ready.

Forgot to add on this: when I say significant debt, I mean relative to living in your hometown with my parents. I still have way less debt than I think I would have if I'd gone, funded, to a school across the country. I can't be sure, though. When I picked the smaller, regional program close to home, there were some unexpected trade offs, like no conference or travel funding, unexpected fees ("fully funded" really was a misnomer at my school for anyone), and a very low stipend. At the same time, no regrets. I got to do my MA with a fantastic support network in a great community that I'm very familiar with, and surrounded by faculty that without exception genuinely care for and nurture students. Apart from all that... welp, guys, it's the Sunday night before the 15th. I have a feeling tomorrow morning is gonna be back to intense stuff. Fingers crossed for all of us.

Heya, I did my MA at a smaller, regional school, (a R2 state college in my hometown actually), and there is no one here that really shares my research interests. At the time I started grad school, I wasn't really aware of my field yet and had no intention of continuing onto a PhD or doing serious research. That all changed midway through, and I'm leaving highly specialized in a field that isn't offered at my school at all through a serious amount of independent research. So, it's doable, but it depends a lot on faculty, and the specifics of your department and POI. For us, for example, we absolutely cannot take undergrad courses under any circumstances, but we can take independent studies as we like and substitute our courses pretty freely if we find something we'd rather take in another department. This is certainly not the case at all schools. Questions about independent studies and undergrad courses would be great for the DGS at the school. For what it's worth, I'm very satisfied with the MA experience I've had, and I've been relatively successful applying to PhDs and getting selected within my subfocus without having a huge amount of super-specific coursework in it. I will say this, though: I think I probably had to be a lot more self-motivated than other folks who had more generalized focuses within our program. I spent a lot of time going to conferences and skyping with specialists in my field at other schools to make up for what I couldn't get where I was, for example, and I probably got into way more debt (even while fully funded) than I would have had I chosen a different program.

Ay, dios mio!

I don't know if you'd be able to finagle such a thing, but if you could, say, maintain an address near your campus and stay with someone OOS, like family, I don't think anyone would bat an eye... that may or may not be my plan.

Honestly for me that's so hard to imagine I'm literally starting to wonder about the possibility of deferring...

So, I already said similarly in the waitlist thread, but... my thought is because we're in the middle of a major holiday celebration for a minimum of two very large religions, we won't see as much movement until Monday even though we're chugging to the finish line. Monday might be a heck of a day, though. (I'm actually kind of sickeningly crossing my fingers that I don't get news in case it's bad news... I don't normally really appreciate Passover as much as I should, but this year, with everything? I'm kind of digging the vibes, lol. And Happy Easter to those of you who do that. And Happy Holidays to anyone else I've missed.)

So my thought is because we're in the middle of a major holiday celebration for a minimum of two very large religions, we won't see as much movement until Monday. I'm actually kind of sickeningly crossing my fingers that we don't in case it's bad news... I don't normally really appreciate Passover as much as I should, but this year, with everything? I'm kind of digging the vibes, lol. And Happy Easter to those of you who do that. And Happy Holidays to anyone else I've missed.

I'm on their English Ed list, which is separate from English Lit (and also separate from the Joint English & Women's Studies program). Their department could maybe use a little streamlining. ?

Same here, and so I completely understand why that sense of community is such a huge thing for us. That kind of community also doesn't necessarily have to come directly from within the program. Have you been able to discern if there are other support systems / resources on each campus or in the community you'd be living in for first gen students, or any other affinity group you might want to join? I've been thinking more about the (really unhelpful) advice I gave you earlier and I'll say this: a 2:1 or a 1:2 is manageable for us and our field, but I think a lot of why our PhD Programs are set up that way is because a lot of us come from MAs where we already have two years of experience (or more) teaching a 1:1 of composition. If your background was a bit different, it might be a bit more of a shock to the system. At the same time, if the program is set up that way, it might be done so for a reason -- like maybe your expected course load in whichever term the '2' is is much lighter, or mostly independent study. You might also find that you have a really, really stellar support and development network and it doesn't matter either way. Another great question to ask is when the teacher training component takes place. Do they expect you to go into a classroom on September 5th without ever having trained? Is there a training commitment over a summer (if so, it's good to find out when so you can make sure you're in town). In the event that that training is postponed due to COVID, what's the plan? What kind of materials can you share with prior cohorts? Etc, etc. That's just some thoughts. Another thing to ask both schools might be what other duties students generally take part in. This is sort of tricky. Sometimes there's an expectation that even though your only duties are teaching and coursework, that you might also have 'free time' to sit on committees and do administrative work. Hopefully if you do have that happen to you it's compensated, but if you can find a sneaky way to ask this question, it's a good way of figuring out how much unpaid labor you'll be expected to do at each place and, figure out what that might look like on top of everything else. Of course, it's grad school. We do a lot of unpaid labor to begin with, but there are some places that try their best to minimize that, and unfortunately, others who will get away with whatever they can. So those are some follow up thoughts. Best of luck to you. And my usual first gen reminder from one to another: you have earned your seat here, you are welcome, you contribute amazing things, and you will continue to do amazing things no matter where you go.

Seconding this. It is completely normal for waitlisters to not hear back until after the 15th. Sit and meditate as long as you need. ❤️

Hi! A 1:2 is pretty manageable, and somewhat common for our field. Additionally, I wouldn't take slower response time to mean much during this pandemic. It -could- be indicative of how much support there was in the digital transition at the school. At the same time, I would find it odd that they'd take long to respond knowing that you were admitted at such a late phase. It sounds to me based on what you've said that Program 1 might be checking more of your boxes. I personally would probably choose the program that feels friendly -- that can go a long way -- but I don't think anything you've said should automatically eliminate Program 2 from the running. Sorry this advice is all over the place!

Is... that a thing people do? Because that's shitty.

Oh, Gosh. I feel like I've learned SO many things. Here, let me make a numbered list. For any future readers, know that these things are Rhet/Comp specific, but also, specific to a very small thread of Rhet/Comp, and an applicant who is disabled, graduating with two concurrent MAs, with teaching experience, loads of conferences, and fluent in multiple languages. Happy to discuss any of those things further by PM. 1) Waitlists are genuinely a good thing. They felt like the end of the world at the beginning of this. 2) If you happen to submit your MA Thesis you're still actively working on as your writing sample, your materials will improve significantly even just over the course of the term you apply. This is normal. Don't drive yourself crazy by looking back at your WS and thinking you're so bad. Yes, this is a hugely important application, but admissions committees are aware that you're a student and you're in the middle of growing and learning. 3) Rhet/Comp PhDs and sections of English Studies PhDs in our field often have very small cohorts. Smaller than you realize. Like, two sometimes. And that is in the ideal situation where they actually fill both spots -- they might not. So if you ever wonder 'what the heck does x person have that I don't?!?', it might be sobering to remember that it might literally be -A- spot. Some programs ARE larger, though. 4) Really understanding not only who you'd ideally seek to work with AND who you'd work with in their stead if they took a surprise sabbatical during a pivotal time in your studies is crucial. I'd always heard folks say, 'Don't go somewhere just to work with one person in particular,' and I didn't really take it to heart -- turns out, from experience, that's very real. 5) ESPECIALLY here on GradCafe: be very mindful of the differences between Rhet/Comp and Lit. This board is mostly Lit folks, which makes sense, but it also can get a bit confusing. It is completely normal (sadly) that our stipends are lower, that our cohorts are smaller, that our job market is a bit different (for better and for worse). We also don't really exist at the Ivies, whereas you'll see lit people on here ardently struggling to choose between Harvard and Yale and you might think, 'Oh my Gosh, my field doesn't even exist in those places'. That's all part of the deal. Literature is just a different ballgame, and that is okay. As you start your PhD, you'll likely learn a little bit about how Rhet/Comp emerged as a field, and a bit of the "contention" between our fields. It's friendly, but it's a thing that goes back forever. Keep it in mind, but don't take it to heart. 6) In the same vein as #5, don't be shocked when you see a lot of Literature folks applying to PhDs as BA-only applicants. That's a thing in a lot of fields, but generally not ours. You will find that virtually all Rhet/Comp PhDs expect you to come in with an MA, and it is not a bad thing for you to have one. In fact, it's sometimes a very good thing. 7) Sometimes, but not always, really good Rhet/Comp programs are in schools that you would never expect -- schools that are below the top 50, even below the top 100. That is okay. Remember: it's less about where you go, and more about who you study with and how you network. Our field is a bit unique. 8 ) Important: you will get a job. Almost every university and community college in North America has some form of writing program. It is a LOT easier to place a writing specialist than it is to place, for example, a Queer Shakespearean scholar. Now, granted, the first job you do get might not be TT, and you might be in the middle of nowhere... but please trust me, as an anon person on the internet, from one panicked first gen student with no safety net to another: you will get a job. 9) If you are on a waitlist, be prepared to be genuinely waiting down to the wire, to April 15th, or even beyond. Check the results history. Sometimes -- even not in a pandemic--people get offers a few weeks later than the 15th. 10) Apply to more schools than you think you'll need to. 10 sounds like a crazy number, but in retrospect, having only done 5 myself this cycle, I now wish I had just bit the bullet and applied to those other couple of 'maybes' that I didn't, that have now in retrospect become more realistic places for me to live than the places I did actually apply to. And the most important: 11) So much of admission details comes down to minutia. I'm lucky to have an inside connection at a handful of the places I applied to, and I've learned that when it comes down to who is offered a place vs. ending up on a waitlist, sometimes it's genuinely stuff that the applicants have zero control over. This could be anything from how currently packed a POI's schedule is, searches going on at the school that are diverting attention from student-facing duties, whether or not a grant got renewed, or more. And that's just some of the handful of stuff on the department side. Sometimes decisions come down to things you as an applicant cannot really control, like maybe a bad GPA from literal years ago, or one candidate having more undergraduate research experience than another. In my own case, I transferred three times during undergrad and had gaps in my education to work. I started at a community college, then a regional school, then graduated from a top 20 R1. Although I probably had experiences to do research at that last stop, the reality was, my educational background and the ways I'm non-traditional meant I couldn't have those same experiences that sometimes adcoms use to make 'cut off' decisions. So, what this tells us is this: sometimes, you literally could not have done anything better or different -- it isn't you -- and that is okay. Most, most important thing: You will be okay. There is a place for you. You bring something meaningful and important to the table, and worst comes to worst, you just need to try again. Keep your chin up. ❤️

Oh absolutely -- the only reason I went into further detail was because, well, honestly, I could take that offer. Like... I could -survive- (probably). The list of deal-breakers is small and negotiable, negotiable enough that I applied there being aware of some of them. And my thought was in reading the initial Reddit thread was that I wouldn't want anyone in a similar situation to mine to feel somehow pressured to make a choice that wasn't perfect for them and risk potentially having to leave a program and start over elsewhere later on. I think it's pretty much universally agreed that starting over midway through a PhD is worse than delaying one a few years.

Seconding this. I'm always wary of schools that offer tremendous stipends, anyhow. Perhaps this is just me being cynical, but I always think that if they have to do that to get folks in the door, there must be something they're compensating for...

I've been teaching and on department committees for awhile, and the connection between university endowments and the stock market has been on my mind. I've been doing some reading here, and in a few other places. Here's my thoughts: I don't know what the specific situation at that OP's institution is, or how financially vulnerable their department is outside of a pandemic (and some are certainly more vulnerable than others). I also don't know how long COVID will last or how long it will take the stock market to bounce back. We're all catastrophizing right now, which makes sense given the state of the world, but that does leave the possibility that all of this may be less bad than we're preparing for. That's personally what I'm crossing my fingers for. However, even worst-case scenario, I think there's some reason to hope for us as grad students... specifically, for us as grad students. I've seen first hand at a struggling university how spending is generally cut in disasters like this. Student cohorts are usually the last on the plate, even for funded students. Why? Because even funded students still spend money at their universities. They might live in the community, perhaps even on campus, with a meal plan or otherwise buying campus food, paying fees, buying books, teaching, and performing other forms of (unfortunately) cheap labor. Part time lecturers, for example, both cost more, and put less money back into the institution's ecosystem, so they're often cut first, along with university staff, etc, long before student roles get sliced. In fact, it's beneficial for programs to continue to offer spaces in their programs, as the relationship of how funding is allocated to departments is in many ways cyclical, allotted by their enrollment. So, even while there may be some minor cuts, I don't think that's going to translate across the board as there being no spots at all in 2021. Cohorts may on average be a bit smaller, but I think that what that's going to shake out to is a lot less admissions at already-struggling schools, and cohorts of about the same size at schools with wealthy donation bases with highly diversified, massive endowment portfolios. That's just my guess, and that's also kind of what tends to happen in recessions. We don't see a lot of the old, prestige-y schools on the East and West coasts turning away more students than usual, but we see the smaller, regional schools taking a real punch to the gut. The real shitshow for us will be around 2026, when we're trying to get jobs. I hope this is helpful information for some of you folks. I notice a lot of Literature students, in particular, seem to apply almost exclusively to Top 20 schools. With this in mind, you may not feel much of a change. Another thing to always remember is that university admissions are ALWAYS a shitshow. Seldom does it ever come down to who is the most qualified, it comes down to things like "who had the most research experience in undergrad?" (when many undergrads flat out do not have research experiences offered at their universities), or things like "X Applicant is great, but they would work with Y Professor, who is presently on 11 committees and cannot oversee another one for a few years, so we're going to go to the next name on our list,". So even if you do feel shut out, or feel more shut out from one year to another, the reasons might be entirely separate from COVID or the budget.

So I've been thinking about this more and in my own case, I'm still undecided. But I also want to share some further ideas for anyone else who might be in a similar situation. Last night I was really leaning towards accepting that offer given comments and posts here, as well as other places around the internet. And then I remembered certain details I didn't share here including the cost of living, location, other personal factors and more, and now I'm again not so certain -- not just because of the other programs I'm on waitlists for right now, but because of things I've learned about the programs I'm admitted to as a whole since applying, and other programs I did not apply for at this time, too, that I've since learned might be a better fit. As for that Reddit thread, as much as I appreciate it dearly, I question if that paradigm applies to my specific sub-field within Rhetoric/Composition. We'll no doubt be effected by all of this, too, but our outlook is a bit different than other Humanities (for better and for worse). Thinking back to offers this cycle, it's also important to remember this is a decision about where to live for the next five years, how much support you'll have (or won't) when it comes to publishing and job searching, what healthcare you'll have (or won't), and proximity (or lack of) to certain types of specialists and doctors, and more. With all of this in mind, I firmly disagree that applicants this cycle (or any) should just take any viable offer. In my own case, I'm also disabled, so I'm also weighing up options in cities and on campuses related to accessibility-related concerns and hospital proximity that other applicants might not have to, but are for me a huge difference. All things given with my own very personal set of "things," it may well be the case that I end up waiting several years reapplying to schools I know I can get around. But like, that's me, and my hyper-specific thing that does not impact a lot of people on this form. I'm not saying that's for everyone. So I'm now in a position where I may well end up applying another cycle to a very different set of schools, but not specifically because the offer I have is "a bad offer," but for very me-specific things, like how long of a drive it is to the hospital I need to go to every two weeks, how the insurance costs will translate for my prescriptions, choices of buildings I can live in with ease, etc. But, my thought is, if you don't have something like a disability to consider, and you're considering two otherwise like programs, and you're admitted at one with a slightly lower ranking but waitlisted at the other? Then, yes, a lot of the time, it probably is a good idea to take the offer -- if the offer is right for you.

This is important data to consider. I have an MA, so I frankly wouldn't mind taking a few years off and teaching (if it came to that) -- we'll see.

I'm literally not even in Philosophy, just a lifelong fan of Evangelion (saw it as a child -- god help me), and I just dropped by to also say that that username is amazing. Congratulations, @Ikari Gendo

Friends, I'd like to float a query: I'm #1 on the waitlist at my dream program. DGS and faculty have been very supportive and even up until two weeks ago, our most recent contact seems to affirm that they have (or had) every intention of admitting me given a typical year's amount of folks they get off the waitlist. Now after checking GradCafe, I'm losing hope. I'm seeing more and more posts about folks on waitlists being told that they're not going to take anyone off waitlists this year due to Corona-related budget concerns. I haven't heard this yet from the dream program, however, I'm worried it's a possibility. I know I'll know in the next couple of days regardless but...I'm stuck. All things given, if I don't make it off that list, do you think it would be worth re-applying vs. accepting a different offer elsewhere? Part of me feels like I'd be a fool not to take the offer I have. It's a great offer but there are a lot of reasons not to take it, too. I also recognize that when we look at the fall out of this pandemic, application cycles could very well get worse before they get better. At the same time, I also know that I learned a lot from this application cycle, and if I were to have another year, I'd probably apply to an almost completely different set of schools. So, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. Thoughts?

Yikes. I'm in a very similar situation with a different school, told very positive things, first on the waitlist, etc, and I'm mortified this is about to happen...