teasel

No one should have to take out 50k in federal and private loans to attend university. It's appalling. Older generations often cite inflation but the truth is that back in the 70's, at least at the university I attended, you could easily pay for your tuition by working a summer job. Now, you're lucky if you're able to pay the interest and additional fees (university health insurance, processing bs, etc.). I don't know much about university systems outside of the US, but I do agree that it's unfortunate. It seems like there are a lot of international applicants on Draft, though, so maybe this is changing? Would love to hear about this from the perspective of an international applicant, if they're will to share.

Chiming in here--for better or worse, successfully completing a BA degree is one of the quickest ways the committee can tentatively measure one's potential success in graduate school. As someone who went back to undergrad later, I've seen firsthand how difficult it is to get by without a BA in the US if you want to be competitive in the workforce, specifically academia and humanities-related endeavors. I'm not saying it's fair, but it's already a pretty monumental task sorting through the 1000+ applications they receive already. They gotta thin it out somehow. That being said, I had to drop out of my undergrad at 19 because I couldn't afford it! I really empathize with those who want a post-secondary education but don't want to be in crippling debt for the rest of their lives. I ended up going to community college to finish my AA and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. Worked 40+ hrs a week while doing it, too. My grades then qualified me for a scholarship that allowed me to attend a great 4 year university after that.... and after having to get through all that BS, I feel like that should mean something? So, I really hear what you're saying @starbuck420 and I wish I had some better solution to offer, but the due process exists for a reason. I guess that in a perfect world, studio programs wouldn't require a BA. Most of the programs I applied to are pretty academic, and I wonder if someone who hasn't completed any post-secondary education can compete in class alongside Eng. Lit PhD candidates. Heck, I don't even know if I'm ready for that. Anyway, everyone should have access to education. Everyone should have access to healthcare. I'm not arguing the obvious, just pointing out that there are inevitable hurdles and steps to the process for a reason. I wish there were more opportunities for writers. The MFA isn't the only route a writer can take, but it sure feels like it sometimes.

I think you should be fine! Honestly as long an applicant uses a proper size (11-12 seems standard) and avoids things like comic sans/papyrus/chancellor I don't think it makes much of a difference. Some of the programs I applied to were specific when it came to formatting, but as long as you read the directions I don't see why it would matter. Serif fonts tend to be more legible than sans-serif fonts though, hence why TNR tends to be standard vs something like arial. This is just what my typography/design professor told me, for what it's worth!

Thank you @Greithe for your advice! I wish that we in the US would appreciate and protect our educators more. My sister is a teacher and she's had to work so hard, creating an online curriculum at the drop of a hat. She said that 1/3 of her kids had parents who were essential worker, and it's been hard to know how to even grade them this year. If I'm being honest, I'd rather teach at the post-secondary level, but I know that those jobs don't really exist anymore--at least not in the humanities. But I think I could be very happy teaching HS, too! I've been researching certification programs online but it's a lot to navigate--I'll take your advice and email my alma mater to see if they have advice : ) @Graceful Entropy It's crazy how different the requirements can be depending on where you live. In WA you need a BA in addition to certification to be a teacher (if you don't have a degree in education that is). Your plan sounds really practical! The MFA is a kind of a "vanity degree," in the sense that it doesn't guarantee any employment, so it's smart to be thinking ahead. If I'm fortunate to get into an MFA program, I hope to be doing something similar!

A few days peace would be nice. Thank you very much, @telkanuru ! I received five or six rejections from high-tier pubs the past couple months--even when you prepare yourself, it still sucks. I have some poems coming out this summer, tho! You just gotta be persistent and try not to have too many expectations. Even when a writer's work is highly polished and unique, it's still a very subjective process. I usually give myself one day to kinda feel sorry for myself--I'll make a really elaborate dinner, drink some wine, binge watch a show. Basically nothing writing related, unless I'm super absorbed in something that doesn't remind me of my inadequacies haha. I also listen to a lot of guided meditations when the thought of rejection stresses me out. Personally I don't have a rejection wall, but I admire those who use it to endure! I just think having a visual representation of my rejections would make me focus too much on the difficult part of the writing life, when I'd much rather surround myself with totems of success/inspiration. That's just me tho : ) Do you guys have a back up plan if you don't get in this round? I am thinking of trying to get a teaching certification. Obviously I'm trying to be positive! But I'm curious to hear what you guys have been thinking

I've been getting lots of swords and pentacles, too! And Death/The Tower/The Star for the past 6 months

That sounds so nice! I just ordered some take out and I'm sipping on some Soju. I thought I'd check this forum one more time, but after this I'm going to try and get some reading done or maybe watch a movie. It's so important to remember to unplug now and then That's awesome that you want to learn more about tarot! I think it's great to pick out a deck that you vibe with, but starting with the Rider Waite is usually a good idea because it's "standard" and will allow you to get acquainted with the archetypes and symbols. There are a lot of artists creating amazing decks nowadays, but unless you're already familiar with some of the symbols I think it's not necessarily the best way to learn. Plus, if you get the Rider Waite first you can use websites like this to help you interpret a 10 card spread when you're getting started: https://crystal-reflections.com/tarot3/ Which can be helpful/interesting as you experiment!

Yeah it can be an addiction during times of anxiety hahah. It's more meaningful when you wait between readings tho, I think : ) I also really like using the cards for writing prompts, which is a fun non-divination way to use them! And I hear ya about expectations being thrown... I finally took a look at grad school results to get an idea of when we might hear back from certain programs, but I realize now that this year is probably going to look very different, and setting expectations might only lead to further feelings of chaos!!!

I love that there are other people open to metaphysical things on here! I'm actually a professional tarot card reader and have dabbled in the I-ching a bit. I only read for myself once every three months or so and I tend to focus on personal development and the creative unconscious rather than divination. Still hasn't stopped me from drawing a card here and there lately tho I don't know about you guys, but I'm going absolutely crazy refreshing my email. It'd be easier to deal with if it weren't for the pandemic. I just wanna take a trip someplace and forget about apps for a minute!!!

I figure that if anything it's just a quick check, but I was curious to hear your thoughts! I'm not worried about my social media since it's mostly hiking pictures and random pics of my pets. They are set to private, anyway! But I do have a writing website that I included in my CV, though it didn't occur to me until now that someone might bother to take a look. I am caught in the trap of over-thinking at this point haha

Random question, but do you guys think that adcoms vet social media and personal websites (writing-related ones, I mean) while they're narrowing down their top potential applicants?

I think I remember reading that MFA applications went up pretty drastically around the 2008 recession and I wouldn't be surprised if applications went up this year due to COVID. Whether those candidates workshopped/revised their portfolio, articulated their goals for graduate school in their SOP, or did any research pertaining as to why certain programs are a good fit for their writing--that's another story, I think. Even if the pool is much larger, I don't know if that will make much of a difference. It was already a competitive and subjective application process to begin with, so I'm trying not to worry too much at this point! I've talked to a number of folks in MFA programs as well as my mentors about the SOP and its importance. The writing portfolio is hands down the most important aspect of your application. If an applicant's portfolio shows promise, most adcoms move to the SOP to make sure the applicant is sane, as you have pointed out. A well-crafted SOP will also demonstrate that an applicant is ready for grad school--that they have career goals related to the MFA, that they have researched the program and can articulate why they are a good fit, and that they have some semblance of how their voice fits into the larger literary community. While I don't think the SOP is the most important aspect of the process, it seems to be a make-or-break document. If there are two applicants that show equal promise and only one available spot, no doubt the SOP is the tie-breaker. After that, they might read the LOR or CV. That being said, I hope you are taking care of yourself and not stressing too much. This is a learning process for all of us, and we're all sitting in the dark as of this moment while we wait to hear back. So, maybe try to be a little more polite to those who have gone to great lengths to provide their intellectual labor on your behalf. I'm anxious too, and one of the ways I'm combatting this is by writing new material and researching non-MFA writing workshops. I figure that if I don't get in this time, at least I'll have fresh material for next year that I can get a head start on revising. Also, if you haven't reached out to creative writing faculty at your university, I would do so! I can't remember who suggested this off the top of my head since I'm just getting caught up on this thread, but it's some solid advice! Congrats!!! I'm officially done with applications too : ) Hope you are feeling better and taking good care of yourself during this crazy time. I don't know what my top three programs are since I have different reasons for choosing various programs, but the ones I've been spending the most time thinking of lately are: 1. Michener - the faculty and the funding are amazing and I really miss living in a big city 2. University of Minnesota - I think I told you that I was skipping this program (since it's extra competitive this year!!) , but my professors submitted recs on my behalf and I didn't want them to go to waste : ) My immediately family lives there now, and Minneapolis has some many amazing small presses. 3. UMass Amherst - I have met a few well-known poets who've got to this program. I would also love the chance to meet and learn from Ocean Vuong, who strikes me as not only a talented poet but a kind & generous teacher. Obviously I would be extraordinarily grateful to get in anywhere. These are just the programs I've been thinking a lot about this past week. I miss my family a lot, and I'm not sure I'm as passionate about teaching now that we're in the middle of a pandemic and I've seen the way we've treated our educators here in the United States. *sigh*

Just wanted to say hello to a fellow Washingtonian! I lived in Seattle for almost ten years and miss it terribly (though not the crazy living expenses which required me to juggle three jobs haha). I was wondering if you have any insight on the UW grad program. Did you take any classes from creative writing faculty while there? Would be curious to hear about your reasons for not applying as a grad student, only if you're willing to share of course. Anyway, I hope everyone is doing well. Been kind of MIA as I finish my apps, but now that I'm essentially done, I guess there's nothing to do but wait... Am curious to hear about what you guys plan on doing while you wait these next couple months. I write almost every day in some form or another, but I think I might give myself a break from serious reading and language studies and just let myself exist for awhile... maybe play some video games, propagate some house plants, pick up knitting for the millionth time... Also, I'm loving these poetry recs! Keep 'em coming. I would like to add "Deaf Republic" by Ilya Kaminsky. Check out his poem "We lived happily during the war"

@Ydrl Best of luck with UM! I've decided to drop it from my list and focus on another program that might be a better fit for me. Part of my internship was helping to organize Douglas Kearney's Bagley Wright Lecture event with Cave Canem--I highly suggest checking it out (it was recorded! I think you can find the link on FB.) Not only is the lecture amazing, but it might give you a feel for if you'd like to work with him. You might even mention it in your UM SOP if there was something you found genuinely moving or interesting. Anyway, that's just my two cents!

For sure—subjectivity and many other factors exist outside our control. It’s a competitive and arguably brutal process we’re putting ourselves through. I hear that it’s very common for folks to apply two or three rounds before getting into a fully funded program. Still, all we can do is read, write and revise as much as possible and hopefully get some trusted readers to help with our blind spots. Rejection is something I think about often, but I’ve been told by my teachers that the most important thing is to keep writing no matter the outcome. Wishing you the best this cycle!

I’ve sent my rough draft to three writers I trust after looking things over this summer, then skimmed things down to my strongest poems. I’m feeling pretty confident, but thanks for the concern! Sounds like you’re working hard and on your way to success. I’m more curious to hear if anyone’s actually started submitting anywhere.

I know, I'm pretty bummed about it too since it's one of my top choices. I'm still planning to apply there, but who knows what will happen? I guess what worries me most is that (like many of us, probably) I'm extremely broke. They aren't able to give fee waivers, which is understandable. The thing is, I really can't afford to spend $60 on the app if they come out saying they're not accepting a class for 2021 after the fact. $60 might not seem like much, but things are hard atm. Hopefully it all get sorted out, but Dec. 1 is rapidly approaching! If you don't mind me asking, how far are you in terms of your apps as of now? I've finalized my SOP template, but still need to write tailored paragraphs for each program. My writing sample is on its third revision, so I'm probably good there. Have started filling out the online apps, but haven't finished any as of yet! I think I'll be submitting my first one in the next week! It's all feeling very real right now. Hope ya'll are staying healthy and well ❤️

Not true as of now!! They are taking a new class, but a smaller one from what I understand. I’m a member of the MFA Draft FB group, where people have been updating on these types of things. Still waiting to hear news on UMNs funding tho

So I just heard that Umass Amherst won't be taking poetry applicants this year, which makes me especially sad since it has such an impressive faculty and alumni. Anyone heard of other MFA programs that are cutting their funding or not accepting applicants this round?

This is a great question, and one that I've been considering as well. Brown wants 15-20 pages, while the rest of my apps want 10 pages max it seems. I think that if you're open to sending all poems you're considering to your mentors to ask what they think (which ones are strongest and which ones they think might need revising) that would be the best bet. From what I understand it's best to include your most polished work and not pad too much. At the same time, you have a couple months still to revise pre-existing work so maybe focus on revising those three poems or sending new stuff to readers/mentors for some ideas? Another thing to consider is which poems you're passionate about, and also how your pre-existing sample shows depth & range. Maybe it's worth including one of the poems that you're not as confident about if it reflects your interest & takes some risk. That's what I'm planning to do for what it's worth!

Sorry for the delay in replying! What a crazy year it's been... anyway, I am still apply to Michener! But I am a little concerned--I know someone who recently dropped of of New Writer's Project (which has the same faculty essentially) and was told that there's some misogyny and other issues she encountered from a specific, rather well-known poetry professor. Anyway, it got me thinking. Still, I am planning on applying to concentrate in poetry, with fiction as my secondary field. Edit: I also wanted to add that a poem about motherhood, reincarnation and a Silkie Chicken sounds really interesting and compelling! I feel ya though--it's hard talking about one's own writing

All of those sound like great choices! Our list looks different but I definitely checked out all of those programs, tho I don't know much about Minnesota State. However, I am apply to UMinn! Random question, but are you planning on sending GRE scores to them? I noticed that it's "suggested" but not required, and since it's the only school I'm applying do that doesn't explicitly state that they don't want them I'm wondering if it's worth taking just in case.

Thanks so much for your response! I really appreciate it. One of the reasons I asked is because I hear a lot of conflicting information about the SOP, especially for Poetry MFA apps. I also noticed that some apps require a SOP as well as a Personal Statement, so I can see how the SOP overall should be more professional. I feel like my identity as a writer is linked to my experiences as a bi-racial adoptee, which is what I want my first book of poems to explore. Anyway, this is all to say that your examples of good/questionable structuring were helpful! Random question, but what is your program going to look like in 2021? Are you doing remote learning? Hope you're doing well!

Hello! I've been lurking for awhile and just wanted to thank everyone for posting their experiences and insight during the application process. I just started a 2021 thread (tho I know it's early). I know many of you are off to better things and hopefully taking a much needed break from the forum, but if you have time I would love to hear some advice if you're willing to share. If you're comfortable, would you mind summarizing what your statement of purpose looked like? I'm trying to balance the line between personal and professional. I want to leave an impression without oversharing. It'd be awesome to hear what different people chose to write about. Personally, I am hoping to write about the legacy of adoption in my family and the way the Korean War has continued to shape our lives despite the time that's passed. Basically it's about generational trauma and how it influences the way I write and see the world. Is that too much tho? I don't want to trauma-dump obviously, but it feels important somehow.

So maybe this is a bit early, but I thought I'd give it a go! Hopefully this can be a place for us to ask questions & commiserate during this crazy process. Many thanks to all that commented in the 2020 Applicant Forum--I lurked for a long time, then finally decided to apply for this upcoming cycle. Your insight was invaluable and I hope that ya'll are doing well despite this very strange time. A bit about me: I'm twenty-eight years old and applying to mainly poetry programs. I went to a prestigious undegrad at 18, but ended up leaving due to outside circumstances. After taking several years off, I transferred and received my BA in English. I think that I'm ready to apply because I've had quite a bit of life experience and can say that I now fully know what I want in life. Besides student publications, I have two poems forthcoming in some small lit magazines and won a contest this spring. I'm currently interning at a poetry non-profit and helping to produce their podcast. Since most of the fully funded programs have a 2% (or less!) acceptance rate, I'm hoping this will help my chances. However, I hear that it mostly comes down to the writing sample. My list so far looks like this: Iowa Workshop (Poetry & Fiction) University of Virginia (Poetry & Fiction) Michener Center (Poetry) University of Oregon (Poetry) Vanderbilt (Poetry) UMass Amherst (Poetry) University of Minnesota (Poetry) University of Washington (Poetry) Still considering NYU, Brown and Cornell but it seems like those are some pretty big names. I don't think I could afford to live in NY, and I feel like Cornell is definitely Obviously please feel free to introduce yourself and ask questions! One question I would like to ask concerns the MFA Statement of Purpose. I have written a template--the last paragraph will be tailored to fit each program. How personal should you get? Obviously the admissions staff doesn't want to relive our worst trauma, and shock value isn't always a great thing (especially if it doesn't relate to your work or the program.) However, we are writers. Our human experiences shape the way we craft narrative and may directly apply to the novel or book of poems we wish to write during that time. Could some folks who have already applied perhaps give some examples about what they wrote about?