Elwynn11

Since PhD is a lot of self guided work, it seems to me there isn't a big difference whether you spend one more year studying by yourself or spending the year in the PhD school? So if you think next year you will land in better programs, it seems to be worth it. Btw, I don't think getting accepted into a PhD is difficult (or is it?). I think getting into a good program with good funding is difficult. And one more note, I hate to raise this loans thing again - but a logic I keep seeing/hearing from almost everyone but don't understand is, if this religion PhD path is so hellish and you won't find any job paying more than 20k a year afterwards anyways, then why do it at all even if you were offered with, say, lucrative funding? In this case I would say don't do it at all no matter what! But if you know eventually you will be able to find some job one way or another, then what is so wrong of taking a loan now? Or perhaps what they really mean is, don't take a loan too big which is beyond easy paying off?

I see the mounting problem here as no matter how (even if you get a tenure track in a university), you cannot easily do that research work that you always dream of (unless you teach an intro class for 30 years and become a professor emeritus?). This is really the obstacle that is hard to get over. So again, my question is, are there other, or creative ways for us to still be able to engage in research and publication even outside of standard academia? So that's why I was thinking about teaching high schools (it pays well and you have summers off so can use that time for research). Or back to engineering, so I can work for a few years and save enough money to take a few years of leave (this is how I got my MA in theology in the last a few years).

Question, since you can get summers off in a high school, it sounds like you would have some time doing research on the side right? Yes, if I were to go back on engineering and forever, what is the point of spending a few years in between on a theology PhD? But in that case, it also begs to ask, what is the difference of spending 40 years of my life on engineering, compared to 30 years on engineering + 10 years on theology? (you can replace the engineering here with your current government job) As long as making money is not your highest goal, and you somehow manage to survive financially, wouldn't be a plus to your life that you gained the education and credential you always wished for?

Thanks Xypathos. I do have a Bachelor's and Master's in engineering, and worked a few years as an engineer. So I can always teach STEM classes... I hope that should be a plus too? Love to know that at least high schools are still in demand of qualified teachers. I started my MA in theology thinking maybe I can become a high school teacher (I got a little tired of engineering, and thought a teaching job with summers off would be cool), but as I did pretty good on my studies, I thought I should pursue a PhD. But it is good to know that high schools are always a good option. Bottomline, at this point I just hope there are realistic outlets after the PhD so I can pay off the loan quickly. I don't want to change a life passion/path just for some 50k which I may be able to pay back in one year or two.

Sounds very depressing, but thank you for being so honest. Yes, it seems like at this stage I should give up on the thought of a tenure-track job. And honestly it is not my ultimate dream to grade undergrad homeworks for the rest of my life. I think many of us deep down just want to do study and research all day. But sadly there isn't a standard job for that. But I am glad you were able to land a government job. If I go down this path, I will be betting on possibilities that: teaching in the Majority World as a missionary (which requires raising support); working in the church; or working in other fields (I have an engineering background. However, I am not sure of the likelihood of finding an engineering job again after being out of it for 8-9 years). But back to our true desire of study and research...are there other more "fulfilling" ways to do it, outside of academia?

@xypathos (I don't know how to do this @ trick), can you tell me more about teaching in boarding schools? You mean private high schools? I always thought teaching high school is also a good choice (with summers off, etc.). Are these jobs abundant?

So what do you plan to do now? Sounds like a difficult situation to be in...

Hi to be straightforward here, you MDIV GPA is indeed low. In this age of GPA inflation, I can't imagine you can get into good PhD programs with a GPA lower than 3.8 or 3.9. So unless you can improve your GPA significantly in the ThM, I don't think your chance of success will be good even next year. Btw your GRE is also not advantageous. You will have to improve it too. And do you know why you were not accepted by the programs? Did they give you any feedbacks? If you find out the reason you may be able to target the improvement more effectively. I myself only have an MA degree (and before this I was in in another field). Last year I also struggled a lot with whether to do a ThM first then apply to PhD, or apply to PhD directly. In the end I decided to apply to PhD directly, and luckily since I do have a good research proposal which caught the interest of the potential supervisors very quickly, and they gave me "verbal acceptance" very early on in the process, I was able to get accepted into these programs relatively easily (and my GPA is nearly 4.0). However, right now I still struggle on the funding side. To get funding is yet one more dimension difficult than getting accepted. So, on the other side, if you need to take loans now for your ThM, what do you plan to do for your PhD? It will be too much financial burden (thus also emotional burden) for you.

Thanks @Athanasius and @sacklunch and all of yall for your constructive thoughts. I think you all have a lot of truth in what you said. I do not believe Oxbridge will be bad, but the the fact of the gloomy job market simply cannot be ignored. With that all said, if I may ask one more question...if for now I do quit on the expectation of landing a tenure track job in the field, what are some other jobs outside of the field of theology I can do /may possibly get hired with a theology PhD? Do they pay an ok salary? I am asking this because as I am still waiting for the scholarship results these days, and sense it to be tough, I have been considering the feasibility of taking loans for this PhD. But of course I want to know if I will be able to pay it back with relative ease afterwards, even if it means working in other fields. So, you guys get me, I really do want to do this PhD, and at this moment I can care less if after graduation I don't work in the field (at least not immediately). So, is it wise to take out loans to make it happen? I am thinking of no more than 50K, and that is for TEDS (Cambridge will be too expensive for me to even take loans) Another option for me right now is to work a few years (in other fields) to save up enough money and then do the PhD. But I worry if I were to apply again in two or three years I may not be accepted by the same programs again. Btw, the biggest reason that I want to do a theology PhD now is not so that I can work on a tenure position for the rest of my life. At this moment it is really because I think I have a good research topic and I want to make my contribution to the theological world. And PhD and academia seems to be the most proper way to it. So here is my another long time question - if I do not do a PhD thus getting into the scholarly world, are there other ways to do publications and join the scholarly discussions? Thanks a lot for all your input.

I just got the email today that I was not selected for the next step. So confirmations for those that have entered the final competition should already be sent out. Good luck!

Just received the email I was not not selected for the next step...Arts and Humanity panel. So those of you who are selected for the next step should already be notified. Good luck!

No problem. Let's keep each other posted.

I contacted them in Dec for a special situation in my own application. They will not contact you if you don't contact them. I didn't have a conditional offer by then (thats why they said that in the email). At this moment, I suppose you are in the international round? As I was told (and what the website also says), you will hear news in early March whether you enter the final competition or not.

From the description of their website and the past posts on this forum, no, only the ones nominated by the department (maybe 1-2 per department?) get viewed by the GC committee. However, I did once receive an email from GC telling me that "we will be considering your application if you are made an offer by your prospective department." But not sure if this sentence should be taken literally.

Congratulations! For some reason the Gates discussion on this forum this year is not as active as last year.....

Thanks all. Very helpful (though kinda discouraging). But what if I do go to a British school and work under a leading "critical" scholar and engage a lot with critical scholarship in my dissertation, does that improve my hiring aspect in a secular university a bit (i.e. counter the anecdote of a "British degree" somewhat), or the search committee wouldn't even care to learn what I did in my dissertation? If I do indeed go to a British school, are there things I can do to mitigate the fact that I am missing a few years of coursework. e.g. Postdoc research, teaching classes while doing PhD, trying to get more publications, etc.? For years in my own seminary (a leading evangelical one) where I did my Master's, I get the feeling that a British degree is the best in the field (the most respected scholars I encountered are from Cambridge, for example), so I didn't even plan on applying to US secular PhD programs (the three schools mentioned here are the only ones I applied to). But the info in this forum opens the other side of the world for me. I hope in the end I do have something to fall back on. I hope each of you also have a rewarding end.

Thanks Sacklunch. One more question, from this forum I get that a British PhD is very much looked down upon in the US. But the faculty lists of many schools I surveyed so far (most of them Christian/evangelical) reveal that a good portion of their faculty hold a British degree. So the fact/anecdote that a British PhD is not worth much only applies to secular universities, or the situation just changed in the recent years?

Hi all, your advice is much appreciated. Which of the these schools is better choice for an OT PhD in the Pentateuch? For now let's assume I have offers from all of them, and their funding situation will end up similar on my end. My background is evangelical, dissertation topic has to do with passages in the Pentateuch. Career goal for now is academia (don't mind evangelical or secular). Cambridge Advantage: professor (potential supervisor) is very attentive; Disadvantage: may have to deal a lot with critical scholarship on dating, history of religions, etc. (though the professor said dating is not the primary issue for my topic (but secondary), so I don't need to worry about it excessively) St Andrews Advantage: professor said I can do the project in a synchronic way, so no need to worry about dating at all Trinity Evangelical Divinity School (in Chicago): Advantage: professor is renowned scholar in the evangelical world; Disadvantage: will have to do three years of coursework first, and professor will likely retire in a few years, but said would still supervise my dissertation after retirement One extra note, not that I don't want to engage with critical scholarship at all, but many established scholars have warned me against doing a Pentateuchal study in a secular/critical environment. I suppose it is simply very difficult/painful to do, or past success rate is low? And another important question. I am Asian, female. Will this status enhance my hiring prospect in the academia after the PhD? Thanks!

I applied in the US round. I still didn't get any notification yet. Have you all got your "finalist" or rejection email? But just yesterday my admission status changed to "under review by Degree Committee." Was my admission process dragging too long? I was interviewed on Nov. 23rd.

Hi I am from GCTS - Charlotte. I am not sure if GCTS is the most rigorous one, but it should be enough for your use. MA students from here have a good chance to go to good PhD schools. If you are considering mainstream PhD schools, avoid the denominational seminaries for your MA.