barber5

You're right, unless he indicates that he has every intention of staying in the program in his SOP either directly or indirectly ("I'm really fascinated by X and want to research it") and you may be wrong anyway since one could argue it's best to be forthright in your SOP.

To have earned a spot with a misleading superior application is not to have earned the spot at all. If I fake my letters of recommendation will I have earned the spot that my superior application has gotten me? No.

And even though this joker probably won't be able to fool any admissions committees into admitting him anywhere, if he did, it won't be because he's "earned" a spot that he has the rights to dispose of however he likes.

I'm presently an undergrad at UIUC and had gotten an early admit notice from them back in September but today I received official notification along with funding information. Full tuition and partial fee waiver + insurance + 25k stipend + 5k CS Excellence Fellowship for a year

I'm working in data mining and specifically information/social networks. I've also applied to CMU, Stanford, MIT's media lab, Cornell, and Penn

Stats: 4.0 / 800Q / 640V / 5.5 A / Couple of years research 1 journal publication, 2 conference publications under review, and 1 conference demo in prep -- all as coauthors

You're right, unless he indicates that he has every intention of staying in the program in his SOP either directly or indirectly ("I'm really fascinated by X and want to research it") and you may be wrong anyway since one could argue it's best to be forthright in your SOP.

To have earned a spot with a misleading superior application is not to have earned the spot at all. If I fake my letters of recommendation will I have earned the spot that my superior application has gotten me? No.

And even though this joker probably won't be able to fool any admissions committees into admitting him anywhere, if he did, it won't be because he's "earned" a spot that he has the rights to dispose of however he likes.

You're right, unless he indicates that he has every intention of staying in the program in his SOP either directly or indirectly ("I'm really fascinated by X and want to research it") and you may be wrong anyway since one could argue it's best to be forthright in your SOP.

To have earned a spot with a misleading superior application is not to have earned the spot at all. If I fake my letters of recommendation will I have earned the spot that my superior application has gotten me? No.

And even though this joker probably won't be able to fool any admissions committees into admitting him anywhere, if he did, it won't be because he's "earned" a spot that he has the rights to dispose of however he likes.

President, as long as you do your TA'ing or whatever the school makes you do during your studies, you're doing nothing wrong. No one signs a blood oath saying he is going to finish his program. Many people don't finish programs for one reason or another, including that they find a job. So leaving with your MS is nothing to feel bad about, and there is nothing unethical about it either. You are not "stealing someone else's spot" in a program, that's rubbish; YOU earned the spot by having a superior application. It is yours to utilize as you see fit.

See even if we leave the unethical, unfair, risky, and deceitful parts out of this whole equation, there's still the idea that you were ridiculous enough to actually not only post your plan on an internet grad school forum, but to boast and brag about it like no one has ever thought of it before. Sure, the users on this site are pretty anonymous, but you just never know who anyone really is, there are plenty of people here who are at the same school. There are all of those "meet and greet" threads and even in the field specific ones, you find out that at least a handful of people are going to the same schools. Someone just might put two and two together if you get cocky and divulge too much information, maybe it's not likely, but again there's always that possibility, because once it's out there, it's out there. If you're planning on lying, cheating, and stealing, at the very least be smart enough to keep it to yourself so no one can drudge up the "I'm going to cheat the system and be damn proud of it" thread you callously posted and get you into trouble. I'm not quite sure if you've picked up on the disgust factor that almost everyone has expressed, but the fact that you're trying to bring us around to this by having us think about you spending the money you'll save at a nice restaurant is disgusting. And if you have such little regard for academia you have no place even thinking about taking up space in any program.

Someone this idiotic and evil isn't getting into any doctoral program.

This is outright terrible reasoning, no matter which way you look at it. It's like a grossly misinterpreted version of "let he without sin cast the first stone."

I feel sorry for any program that admits you.

Firstly, to the specifics, frankly President you come off as a bit thick and I don't expect this dilemma will actually materialize for you because I don't think you'll get into any PhD programs that will offer you funding.

Now, generally, I would say this is not a very ethical or practically wise thing to do. The ethical pitfalls are obvious and have been discussed. Practically, as someone else mentioned, if you'd like to get an MS and are already employed, many companies will provide funding for you to get a master's degree if you appear to have some talent

I have presented a paper in National Level Event.
I have done projects in C,JAVA,JSP,OpenGL.
First prize in the Shell Script competition.
Was Class Representative, organised Departmental events.
I will be having 1 year experience till fall2012
Was NCC candidate in school.

I have interest in Networking and Computer Systems. I have gone through some universities..please help me to categorise them...

University of Wisconsin Madison
Ohio State University,Columbus, OH
Uni of Massachusetts, Amherst
Washington State University,Pullman
Pennsylvania State University--University Park
University of Chicago Chicago, IL
University of Florida Gainesville
University of Utah,Salt Lake City
Stony Brook University SUNY Stony Brook,
Virginia Tech Blacksburg
North Carolina State University Raleigh, NC
University of Minnesota--Twin Cities Minneapolis
University of Arizona Tucson
Arizona State University
University at Buffalo SUNY Buffalo
Iowa State University Ames
University of Georgia Athens
Uni of Texas, Dallas

First, i came back to see the replies.
Second, i apologize for not mentioning MS in Computer Science.
Third, yup i have posted same thing on BILLIONS of forums...because for all forums the person named "sats is going to be sats only"
Fourth, asking anyone help is not ridiculous, my DEAR..
Fifth, and i am not expecting someone to do work for me...i am capable of doing on my own..i just want suggestions and i guess forums are the best for this purpose when you are from a remote village in third world.
Sixth, since i am new here, and don't know how things work..
Thanks!

Excuse you, suggestions for what? that's what's missing. What do you mean categorize? You put a few facts about yourself down and then a list of schools, what is anyone supposed to do with that? Are you asking about your chances? Do you want someone to go down that list and say which is a good school and which one is not? Don't you think you should do that? If you want someone to compare a few programs that you've already looked into and can't decide which is more in tune with your interests, that's one thing, people can and will be happy to help you with that. And judging by the -4 on your post, I'm clearly not the only one who thought of this as just another one of those posters who's not really serious and won't do their own research. And thus far you haven't gotten any real suggestions or advice due to how you presented your question and/or request. Think of it this way, it is hard enough for an admissions committee to decide to admit or reject you and they have your entire application package in front of them...you're giving us a few bits of background information, your GRE scores, and list of schools that you know of...how could we possibly tell you about your chances or programs that might suit you best?

Wow. You go to Princeton????

Let me add some contrast to this discussion. This past admissions season, our school had an applicant who was very qualified but not sure if she even wanted to go to grad school. She was at the top of the pile, and we recruited her very heavily, even though she was obviously a high risk student (in terms of dropping out early). If you are desired enough, then they might not care so much.

The simple fact is that a ton of PhD students drop out. The company I work at is full of PhD drop-outs, not because they planned to leave with a free MS, but because they simply realized it wasn't for them and decided to stay after doing an internship. It happens. It may not cost the schools as much as some people have suggested, because stipend funds usually come out of larger government grants, and treating the tuition waiver as part of the cost isn't quite the same when you're talking about students who would never have paid it to begin with.

That being said, it seems unlikely that someone who's not qualified to have their employer pay for a MS could get into a PhD program. You also seem to lack some basic understanding of the PhD process which means you won't get in.

I'll also note that funding is often guaranteed only on a year to year basis. If they suspect they are being conned, then your funding will get cut off, you'll leave without a new degree, and you'll have wasted a year of your life.

And I don't need to note the ethics because you don't care.

Firstly, to the specifics, frankly President you come off as a bit thick and I don't expect this dilemma will actually materialize for you because I don't think you'll get into any PhD programs that will offer you funding.

Now, generally, I would say this is not a very ethical or practically wise thing to do. The ethical pitfalls are obvious and have been discussed. Practically, as someone else mentioned, if you'd like to get an MS and are already employed, many companies will provide funding for you to get a master's degree if you appear to have some talent

That is not a reasonable assumption. I came from a very poor family, went to a very shitty undergrad. I know others who have had similar experiences. By saying things like that, you come off much worse than your "suckers who had it good in life".

I am in a PhD program because I love research. Your situation is not unique, and your background doesn't give you any excuse to take advantage of others.

Eeek, definitely a political discussion, but I figure I'll put my 2 cents out there:

Romantic notions of cowboys be damned, the actual, practical purpose of the police is not to protect but to come take an official, historical account of events after they've occurred.

You are the only person who can reliably be counted on to provide for your own safety or that of your family. If carrying a gun and knowing how to use it makes you squeamish or you're relying on the police to keep you safe, chance alone will probably protect you, but I don't think you should categorically damn well-trained individuals who would rather not rely on fate to keep them off the losing end of a violent crime.

Eeek, definitely a political discussion, but I figure I'll put my 2 cents out there:

Romantic notions of cowboys be damned, the actual, practical purpose of the police is not to protect but to come take an official, historical account of events after they've occurred.

You are the only person who can reliably be counted on to provide for your own safety or that of your family. If carrying a gun and knowing how to use it makes you squeamish or you're relying on the police to keep you safe, chance alone will probably protect you, but I don't think you should categorically damn well-trained individuals who would rather not rely on fate to keep them off the losing end of a violent crime.

The first point doesn't seem to me to be an argument for guns on campus per se. The answer to your worry about campus police is to recruit and train better people, not allow everyone to carry guns. As an aside, I don't share your low opinion of campus security personnel, though I know the quality probably varies considerably. But there's a fundamental assumption, it seems to me, in your comments, which is that someone has to be armed, the question is who. I don't accept that, and I don't accept the inevitability of the presence of guns. I will acknowledge that, being Canadian and only having gone to schools here, it's hard for me to judge whether the deep-rooted gun culture, constitutional entrenchment, and pervasiveness of firearms in parts of the US is such that my strong preference for working towards a gun-free society rather than accepting and even encouraging firearm ownership and use is naive. Perhaps. In any case, I'm more certain that the whole 'guns on campus' issue, as it's played out, is utterly political, whatever the apparent legitimate concerns; conservatives use it as a 'red meat' issue to appeal to their base.




Why? I don't see this. Campuses are institutional property, and surely institutions, especially those with a unique role in society as universities have, have the right to make whatever rules are necessary to provide public safety. Universities have a responsibility for what goes on within their grounds. Do you also think it's pointless to ban firearms on airplanes? How about in government buildings (courthouses, legislatures, etc.)? Now, if you just meant that it's a lot harder logistically to prevent firearms from being carried into campus than onto a plane, I agree that it is. That's not an argument that we shouldn't try. But I thought the thrust of your point was that because some jurisdiction has lax firearm regulation in general, that that laxness might as well be applied to all the subunits in that jurisdiction. I don't think that makes sense. You may as well argue, in the extreme case, that I don't have the right to prevent someone from carrying a firearm into my house.

Gun control is interesting. Even if you impose restrictions on campus, criminals and other people you wouldn't want to carry guns are still going to ignore the rules and carry weapons. Some believe that gun control just takes the guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, who would be the kind of people who would defend themselves and others properly, should a situation arise. The people who are adamant about carrying a gun, are going to do it regardless. The question is - do you want the other side to be armed as well? I go back and forth on it. I would never feel comfortable carrying one anyways...maybe I will go invest in a taser

I am applying for Ph.D in chemistry (not M.S)
Firstly, I am an international candidate and selection procedure for int. applicants are at least 5 times more stringent than domestic applicants. So guys, please suggest widely. 2ndly, plzz suggest me 4 safe schools (98 % chance of getting admitted) after reading my scores, grades, field of interest, research exp. etc. THANK YOU in advance.

GRE: Verbal - 660, Quantitative - 750, Analytical Writing- 3.0
TOEFL: 106 out of 120 (speaking - 23 out of 30)
Sub GRE(Chemistry) - haven't appeared yet, will appear Nov. 2011( expected score around 75 percentile)
Research exp. - 5 months(thesis submitted), worked in theoretical phys. chem
Grades: 8.83 out of 10 ( decent,not excellent grades keeping in mind grades given in undergraduate level in Indian universities)
Field of interest: Physical Chemistry (not decided whether experimental or computational)
Letter of Recommendations: will not get excellent LoR's, rather receive decent ones.

PLZZ GUYS SUGGEST WISELY 4 SAFE SCHOOLS (98% CHANCE OF GETTING ADMITTED).

BS. I only scored a 730 in quantitative and I got into every program to which I applied. I know many others in my program who also scored in the mid 700s for quantitative.

GREs are nothing but formalities.

I would not go so far as to completely dismiss the importance of the GRE Chemistry Exam, especially since you are foreign. For example, UW Madison, one of the schools you applied to, explicitly mention that although the exam is not required, it is encouraged for foreign and fellowship applicants.

That being said, your research experience is the most important, so if I were you, I would commit my time to the lab like there's no tomorrow.

Also where do you get these random numbers from? I'm talking about "5 times more stringent" and "98% chance of getting admitted." One weakness in your application could be your missing Chemistry GRE score. Even though some schools don't require the Chemistry GRE, skipping the Chemistry GRE may put you at a disadvantage. Do you already have a B.S. and an M.S.?

Are you applying to schools that will require the Chemistry GRE? If not, then try to get more research experience instead of wasting time to prepare for the Chemistry GRE.