SuperPiePie

I have the most respect for people in all fields and think no less of one or the other. However, the "respect' is lower simply because of the applications of English pale in comparison to many other fields which have far larger impacts and address more pressing needs in the world. To most people, this is why English and many other Liberal Arts seem less "important".

So what are you supposed to say then?

-Sorry.
-I know how you feel.
-Don't kill yourself.

I have the most respect for people in all fields and think no less of one or the other. However, the "respect' is lower simply because of the applications of English pale in comparison to many other fields which have far larger impacts and address more pressing needs in the world. To most people, this is why English and many other Liberal Arts seem less "important".

I'm just making some observations on what I have noticed about this process, having gone through it before. I'm also in graduate school. And yes, I am making observations (sorry, I wouldn't call them assumptions) that reflect on me - I try to be more practical about graduate school and what it is. It's all very romantic and dramatic to have this grand, profound decision to make that everyone is hanging on but I don't think it's very practical or realistic.

I'm sorry you thought they were jerks but A) creating their cohort isn't, surprisingly, about you (this is a general note) and how many days were you going to congratulate yourself on having five offers before you turned it down?

I just wish the humanities people stop would stop crying. Everyone has it rough. It's not like just because I'm an engineer I get automatic grants from everywhere. It's just as competitive. It's tough being an engineer. If you design something incorrectly you can get someone killed. May it be a drug, a building, a medical device, or even a car. The tiniest error of even nanoseconds or microns can cause disaster. So many accidents have occurred because of poor engineering, its terrible, yet engineering is unavoidable in anything so we need better and more engineers to keep up with the demands. It's what people want.

It's like some of you (not all) act like you are martyrs or something or actually better than us even though you didn't get admitted. I was chatting with a few people in humanities the other day saying they did what they wanted to do because it is what they loved, and I respect that. But when people start demanding respect because they feel underprivileged that just gets ridiculous. I'm sure if an English major and a engineer swapped shoes for a day both would actually realize how tough it is. And like I said, the world is the way it is because that's the way it is, so stop complaining and actually go do something. Maybe if you showed some strengths you would get more funding. If you showed Obama more progress in your field he wouldn't cut your funding first.

So far in this thread the only for-English argument posed was by one person about being the Cinderella of academia. All of the rest was just personal attacks or crying.So for all the tough ones out there in humanities , mad props. To all the sorry complainers, tough luck.

I love your personal attacks. If I consider you ignorant and you consider me ignorant, at least I will not do not launch personal attacks. But whatever it doesn't matter, to each is own. If you want to argue against me that is fine, but at least use argument or provide examples. Regardless, as I have said I respect the people and the field just as much as any other. But there are reasons why most people, even many of those highly educated put science and engineering above humanities. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but that is just the way it is. They are not equal as of now and they never have been, either one way or the other.

The problem is usefulness has diminished greatly. Back in the day I agree it was important, but the importance of science and engineering as of today far exceeds that of the fine arts. My significant other and my mother are both artists and one is majoring in comparative literature. They are probably just as smart as I am and work just as hard, BUT the applications of what they are doing I will not admit are greater than the ones I am working on. Literacy is very important, and although in the past it has brought us to where we are, we have plenty of teachers to teach us how to read and write and at least interpret important papers or readings. If you want to do research about a certain writer's style or a certain time period, that's fantastic. But that does not mean that it will somehow make everyone later in the world better off even if you succeed and become famous.

My argument was speaking about the general public because their respect stems from application of study. I look at the individual and that is why I fully respect the field, but many people just want results and product. If any big revolutions are going to occur NOW (yes the past there were many in literature but also MASSIVE ones in science and engineering like the industrial revolution which pretty much changed the world flat out).

If you look to the future science and engineering have larger chances of changing out world and helping people who are sick or in need of food and water. That is why most people put money into these fields. Your argument about flourishing in the past is true, but now we have overcome that hump it is time for us to take over. You guys got us out of the stone age, now we will take you to the space age.



I completely agree, without language we would be screwed over. However, now that we have it it's not like we need millions of English Ph.D. students to help teach people to read and write. We need English teachers to teach elementary school and high school. You can do that without a Ph.D. Like I said we are now in the age of science like it or not, and that is how the world is and represents it self as. So I thank all of you for your contributions in the past. But now that we got enough knowledge to communicate decently, let us take over. You guys got us out of the stone age, now we will take you to the space age. Just because you were the king once does not make you the king now. Just because no one gave a shit about us many centuries ago doesn't make us the paupers now. Things are not equal, and it has always been this way. Just learn to accept it.

Think of it this way, if 90% of the world's English students decided to be lazy and stop doing their studies, it would be sad but the world would still be alright for awhile. If 90% of scientists and engineers just gave up and stopped working, we would be in some... deep... you know.
Note: Once again RESPECT the people who work so hard, but money goes where it needs to go, not where respect needs to go.

I have the most respect for people in all fields and think no less of one or the other. However, the "respect' is lower simply because of the applications of English pale in comparison to many other fields which have far larger impacts and address more pressing needs in the world. To most people, this is why English and many other Liberal Arts seem less "important".

I'm really sorry about that. Maybe you can build new connections and apply again. Then you will get in!

So what are you supposed to say then?

-Sorry.
-I know how you feel.
-Don't kill yourself.

Send a short and straight to the point email and thank them for their time. Also resend the rec request emails from the application websites afterwards so they don't have to dig through 50000 emails to find it.

Wow... that's just low... I'm sorry for you, but you are too good for that place anyways if they treat their applicants like that.

I just wish the humanities people stop would stop crying. Everyone has it rough. It's not like just because I'm an engineer I get automatic grants from everywhere. It's just as competitive. It's tough being an engineer. If you design something incorrectly you can get someone killed. May it be a drug, a building, a medical device, or even a car. The tiniest error of even nanoseconds or microns can cause disaster. So many accidents have occurred because of poor engineering, its terrible, yet engineering is unavoidable in anything so we need better and more engineers to keep up with the demands. It's what people want.

It's like some of you (not all) act like you are martyrs or something or actually better than us even though you didn't get admitted. I was chatting with a few people in humanities the other day saying they did what they wanted to do because it is what they loved, and I respect that. But when people start demanding respect because they feel underprivileged that just gets ridiculous. I'm sure if an English major and a engineer swapped shoes for a day both would actually realize how tough it is. And like I said, the world is the way it is because that's the way it is, so stop complaining and actually go do something. Maybe if you showed some strengths you would get more funding. If you showed Obama more progress in your field he wouldn't cut your funding first.

So far in this thread the only for-English argument posed was by one person about being the Cinderella of academia. All of the rest was just personal attacks or crying.So for all the tough ones out there in humanities , mad props. To all the sorry complainers, tough luck.

I love your personal attacks. If I consider you ignorant and you consider me ignorant, at least I will not do not launch personal attacks. But whatever it doesn't matter, to each is own. If you want to argue against me that is fine, but at least use argument or provide examples. Regardless, as I have said I respect the people and the field just as much as any other. But there are reasons why most people, even many of those highly educated put science and engineering above humanities. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but that is just the way it is. They are not equal as of now and they never have been, either one way or the other.

You do make a good point, research in science and engineering does cost a lot more. Why? One thing, liability. If we screw up we can get sued for millions, and R&D can cost billions. I wish things were cheaper but the reason why so much money goes into this is because of this liability issue. I do have an appreciation for the humanities, don't get me wrong. Without culture the world would be a very boring and probably unbearable place. But I am bothered that a lot of these people complain or feel underprivileged which is really not the case. Furthermore, there are problems in the world I see which I have a strong desire do my part in alleviating it. It bothers me when people think this money is put to waste and they feel like the money should go to them. I'm sorry, but the money required to develop vaccines is RIDICULOUS. I wish it were cheaper, but it's just not going to happen. So I am going to defend the budget cuts which are happening to the humanities.

I guess I used a bit of strong language when I said "taking over". Notice it wasn't an attack on culture, but rather emphasis on English. When most people in the world could not even afford a book let alone read or even begin to understand the rich world of literature, we were all in the dark. But today things have changed and we have to admit. Things are much more digital and advanced, and the old studies are falling behind. Right now culture is just more focused on technology than it has been, lets say 100 years ago. Emphasis on sciences, as you have said yourself, have increased in developed countries so that is what I meant about "taking over".

Like I have said before, the person I love the most in the world is an artist and studies comparative literature. I will not judge people on their interests or how much money they make. But it really bothers me when people seem amazed that they can't get funding for their "insert something" literature studies in the "insert date" when there is some really terrible stuff happening to people around the world. I completely support what individuals want to do, but please understand that the lack of funding and space is just how things are because there are more dire needs right now, and the need of more jobs as well. We have to prioritize and there is a list. A list has a start and end and when you have to make sacrifices you gotta do what you gotta do.

Science is also part of culture. Technology dominates us more than anything else today. Just look at the media, Facebook, this forum, and our cars and everything around us.... good or bad? who knows

I just wish the humanities people stop would stop crying. Everyone has it rough. It's not like just because I'm an engineer I get automatic grants from everywhere. It's just as competitive. It's tough being an engineer. If you design something incorrectly you can get someone killed. May it be a drug, a building, a medical device, or even a car. The tiniest error of even nanoseconds or microns can cause disaster. So many accidents have occurred because of poor engineering, its terrible, yet engineering is unavoidable in anything so we need better and more engineers to keep up with the demands. It's what people want.

It's like some of you (not all) act like you are martyrs or something or actually better than us even though you didn't get admitted. I was chatting with a few people in humanities the other day saying they did what they wanted to do because it is what they loved, and I respect that. But when people start demanding respect because they feel underprivileged that just gets ridiculous. I'm sure if an English major and a engineer swapped shoes for a day both would actually realize how tough it is. And like I said, the world is the way it is because that's the way it is, so stop complaining and actually go do something. Maybe if you showed some strengths you would get more funding. If you showed Obama more progress in your field he wouldn't cut your funding first.

So far in this thread the only for-English argument posed was by one person about being the Cinderella of academia. All of the rest was just personal attacks or crying.So for all the tough ones out there in humanities , mad props. To all the sorry complainers, tough luck.

I love your personal attacks. If I consider you ignorant and you consider me ignorant, at least I will not do not launch personal attacks. But whatever it doesn't matter, to each is own. If you want to argue against me that is fine, but at least use argument or provide examples. Regardless, as I have said I respect the people and the field just as much as any other. But there are reasons why most people, even many of those highly educated put science and engineering above humanities. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but that is just the way it is. They are not equal as of now and they never have been, either one way or the other.

The problem is usefulness has diminished greatly. Back in the day I agree it was important, but the importance of science and engineering as of today far exceeds that of the fine arts. My significant other and my mother are both artists and one is majoring in comparative literature. They are probably just as smart as I am and work just as hard, BUT the applications of what they are doing I will not admit are greater than the ones I am working on. Literacy is very important, and although in the past it has brought us to where we are, we have plenty of teachers to teach us how to read and write and at least interpret important papers or readings. If you want to do research about a certain writer's style or a certain time period, that's fantastic. But that does not mean that it will somehow make everyone later in the world better off even if you succeed and become famous.

My argument was speaking about the general public because their respect stems from application of study. I look at the individual and that is why I fully respect the field, but many people just want results and product. If any big revolutions are going to occur NOW (yes the past there were many in literature but also MASSIVE ones in science and engineering like the industrial revolution which pretty much changed the world flat out).

If you look to the future science and engineering have larger chances of changing out world and helping people who are sick or in need of food and water. That is why most people put money into these fields. Your argument about flourishing in the past is true, but now we have overcome that hump it is time for us to take over. You guys got us out of the stone age, now we will take you to the space age.



I completely agree, without language we would be screwed over. However, now that we have it it's not like we need millions of English Ph.D. students to help teach people to read and write. We need English teachers to teach elementary school and high school. You can do that without a Ph.D. Like I said we are now in the age of science like it or not, and that is how the world is and represents it self as. So I thank all of you for your contributions in the past. But now that we got enough knowledge to communicate decently, let us take over. You guys got us out of the stone age, now we will take you to the space age. Just because you were the king once does not make you the king now. Just because no one gave a shit about us many centuries ago doesn't make us the paupers now. Things are not equal, and it has always been this way. Just learn to accept it.

Think of it this way, if 90% of the world's English students decided to be lazy and stop doing their studies, it would be sad but the world would still be alright for awhile. If 90% of scientists and engineers just gave up and stopped working, we would be in some... deep... you know.
Note: Once again RESPECT the people who work so hard, but money goes where it needs to go, not where respect needs to go.

I have the most respect for people in all fields and think no less of one or the other. However, the "respect' is lower simply because of the applications of English pale in comparison to many other fields which have far larger impacts and address more pressing needs in the world. To most people, this is why English and many other Liberal Arts seem less "important".

The problem is usefulness has diminished greatly. Back in the day I agree it was important, but the importance of science and engineering as of today far exceeds that of the fine arts. My significant other and my mother are both artists and one is majoring in comparative literature. They are probably just as smart as I am and work just as hard, BUT the applications of what they are doing I will not admit are greater than the ones I am working on. Literacy is very important, and although in the past it has brought us to where we are, we have plenty of teachers to teach us how to read and write and at least interpret important papers or readings. If you want to do research about a certain writer's style or a certain time period, that's fantastic. But that does not mean that it will somehow make everyone later in the world better off even if you succeed and become famous.

My argument was speaking about the general public because their respect stems from application of study. I look at the individual and that is why I fully respect the field, but many people just want results and product. If any big revolutions are going to occur NOW (yes the past there were many in literature but also MASSIVE ones in science and engineering like the industrial revolution which pretty much changed the world flat out).

If you look to the future science and engineering have larger chances of changing out world and helping people who are sick or in need of food and water. That is why most people put money into these fields. Your argument about flourishing in the past is true, but now we have overcome that hump it is time for us to take over. You guys got us out of the stone age, now we will take you to the space age.



I completely agree, without language we would be screwed over. However, now that we have it it's not like we need millions of English Ph.D. students to help teach people to read and write. We need English teachers to teach elementary school and high school. You can do that without a Ph.D. Like I said we are now in the age of science like it or not, and that is how the world is and represents it self as. So I thank all of you for your contributions in the past. But now that we got enough knowledge to communicate decently, let us take over. You guys got us out of the stone age, now we will take you to the space age. Just because you were the king once does not make you the king now. Just because no one gave a shit about us many centuries ago doesn't make us the paupers now. Things are not equal, and it has always been this way. Just learn to accept it.

Think of it this way, if 90% of the world's English students decided to be lazy and stop doing their studies, it would be sad but the world would still be alright for awhile. If 90% of scientists and engineers just gave up and stopped working, we would be in some... deep... you know.
Note: Once again RESPECT the people who work so hard, but money goes where it needs to go, not where respect needs to go.

I just wish the humanities people stop would stop crying. Everyone has it rough. It's not like just because I'm an engineer I get automatic grants from everywhere. It's just as competitive. It's tough being an engineer. If you design something incorrectly you can get someone killed. May it be a drug, a building, a medical device, or even a car. The tiniest error of even nanoseconds or microns can cause disaster. So many accidents have occurred because of poor engineering, its terrible, yet engineering is unavoidable in anything so we need better and more engineers to keep up with the demands. It's what people want.

It's like some of you (not all) act like you are martyrs or something or actually better than us even though you didn't get admitted. I was chatting with a few people in humanities the other day saying they did what they wanted to do because it is what they loved, and I respect that. But when people start demanding respect because they feel underprivileged that just gets ridiculous. I'm sure if an English major and a engineer swapped shoes for a day both would actually realize how tough it is. And like I said, the world is the way it is because that's the way it is, so stop complaining and actually go do something. Maybe if you showed some strengths you would get more funding. If you showed Obama more progress in your field he wouldn't cut your funding first.

So far in this thread the only for-English argument posed was by one person about being the Cinderella of academia. All of the rest was just personal attacks or crying.So for all the tough ones out there in humanities , mad props. To all the sorry complainers, tough luck.

I have the most respect for people in all fields and think no less of one or the other. However, the "respect' is lower simply because of the applications of English pale in comparison to many other fields which have far larger impacts and address more pressing needs in the world. To most people, this is why English and many other Liberal Arts seem less "important".

Firstly, thank you for actually presenting an argument

There are more spots but there are also more of us. Our departments are massive yes, but the amount of people trying to get in is ridiculous as well. You have to realize some people in basic sciences and math are trying to get into the same engineering programs as well.

As for training people from other nations. Although graduate schools give citizens priority, qualified people from other countries are welcome. Many countries have very strong engineering and math because a lot of this is universal around the world. I know that in certain humanities it is not as diverse as far as international students. Many of the people trained from different countries like to stay here at work. My father is an example. The pay here is better and there are more opportunities. Furthermore, the research done by these qualified international students is beneficial to the school and department. The money is given to help those individuals who show a desire to pursue a degree in applied sciences. I don't see why we discriminate.

You do make a good point, research in science and engineering does cost a lot more. Why? One thing, liability. If we screw up we can get sued for millions, and R&D can cost billions. I wish things were cheaper but the reason why so much money goes into this is because of this liability issue. I do have an appreciation for the humanities, don't get me wrong. Without culture the world would be a very boring and probably unbearable place. But I am bothered that a lot of these people complain or feel underprivileged which is really not the case. Furthermore, there are problems in the world I see which I have a strong desire do my part in alleviating it. It bothers me when people think this money is put to waste and they feel like the money should go to them. I'm sorry, but the money required to develop vaccines is RIDICULOUS. I wish it were cheaper, but it's just not going to happen. So I am going to defend the budget cuts which are happening to the humanities.

I guess I used a bit of strong language when I said "taking over". Notice it wasn't an attack on culture, but rather emphasis on English. When most people in the world could not even afford a book let alone read or even begin to understand the rich world of literature, we were all in the dark. But today things have changed and we have to admit. Things are much more digital and advanced, and the old studies are falling behind. Right now culture is just more focused on technology than it has been, lets say 100 years ago. Emphasis on sciences, as you have said yourself, have increased in developed countries so that is what I meant about "taking over".

Like I have said before, the person I love the most in the world is an artist and studies comparative literature. I will not judge people on their interests or how much money they make. But it really bothers me when people seem amazed that they can't get funding for their "insert something" literature studies in the "insert date" when there is some really terrible stuff happening to people around the world. I completely support what individuals want to do, but please understand that the lack of funding and space is just how things are because there are more dire needs right now, and the need of more jobs as well. We have to prioritize and there is a list. A list has a start and end and when you have to make sacrifices you gotta do what you gotta do.

Science is also part of culture. Technology dominates us more than anything else today. Just look at the media, Facebook, this forum, and our cars and everything around us.... good or bad? who knows

Firstly, thank you for actually presenting an argument

There are more spots but there are also more of us. Our departments are massive yes, but the amount of people trying to get in is ridiculous as well. You have to realize some people in basic sciences and math are trying to get into the same engineering programs as well.

As for training people from other nations. Although graduate schools give citizens priority, qualified people from other countries are welcome. Many countries have very strong engineering and math because a lot of this is universal around the world. I know that in certain humanities it is not as diverse as far as international students. Many of the people trained from different countries like to stay here at work. My father is an example. The pay here is better and there are more opportunities. Furthermore, the research done by these qualified international students is beneficial to the school and department. The money is given to help those individuals who show a desire to pursue a degree in applied sciences. I don't see why we discriminate.