Neem217

Claremont would be a good fit for process thought, so would Drew. Both of these schools aren't great with funding, but you never know.

Have you visited either programs? Have you talked to students there? Does denomination affiliation matter to you? I do believe you would do fine going into non-profit work or ministry with the MARc. You will still be getting an MTS at BC, so the degree isn't necessarily any more pastoral or ministry focused, and it is still considered an academic degree. How do you figure that BC may be better for you if you have divergent interests? Because the MTS degree is less focused then a MARc in its coursework in terms of your specific field of study? One thing to consider is the alumni network at these schools as well as the opportunities given to students while at these institutions. I am sure both schools fair equally in terms of connections to non-profits, and ministry positions. Though the STM (not including IREPM's history) is a much younger school than YDS. The thing is that most MTS programs (as well as probably the MAR) don't fund these students for field study or ministry placements - as it is not a requirement of the degree. Depending on your specific school, perhaps you could use work study to say, get a ministry job part time, but I'm not sure about the rules and regulations at your school. Furthermore, work study funds will be greatly affected by the sequestration so who knows what they'll be offering next year. Thus, perhaps you could do internship or volunteer job part time while in school a few hours a week, but most students spend a considerably amount of time studying, of course. Most MTS and MAR students I am sure spend their summer learning languages, and getting ready to apply to PhD programs. I guess a question for you is really what program would allow you to investigate your divergent interests. Should you seriously be considering ministry, perhaps switching to the MDiv may be an option. MDiv's sometimes receive better funding than MTS's - though I am not sure if your funding package would change if you did this. With the market as it is, I am sure Yale MARc's fair pretty well during doctoral programs applications, comparatively. Again, the academy is so political and bureaucratic its hard to say anything definitive, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I don't think BC STM students do that well during doctoral applications, but I can't speak from experience as I didn't go there. I can say BC's PhD program accepts many more students from ND's Masters program than from BC STM. BC accepted at least two students from Yale into its PhD this year. Also this year, BC accepted at least two individuals with masters from HDS. Obviously, YDS, HDS, and ND are very good schools. But, often, most doctoral programs accept many of their own masters students, and this makes sense. It happens often at HDS and UChicago, and I am sure at other schools, too. If you look at these schools doctoral students, like half of the admitted/current students are their own masters students. I think one reason is that BC STM is NOT under the same faculty as BC's PhD program in Theology. It's a separate school, on a campus across the street, and isn't considered part of BC's graduate studies in arts and sciences, so you don't get to know the doctoral faculty. So, if a BC STM student didn't get into BC's PhD, then what are they chances they got into say, Harvard, Yale, or Notre Dame (of course, two completely different programs). I do know a STM student who got into UChicago but he does comparative religions/theology (something BC's theology faculty is good at, and he did his undergraduate studies at BC and knew some of the theology faculty really well, and also spent quite some time living in India) and will be doing his PhD in South Asian Languages and Civilizations. In short, I'll bet that BC STM MTS students don't do that well during the doctoral application process as Yale MARc students, since the MARc is a rather competitive degree itself. Since you did get into the MARc, I bet you're a fantastic student, and will do well at either place. HAVING SAID ALL THAT, (I'm sorry, I'm realizing that this post is convoluted), debt is a reality and serious burden. As this degree is obviously not something that one pursues to make the big bucks, going into debt for it is not a good idea, in my opinion. You have to consider your situation. Do you have undergraduate debt? It doesn't seem wise to go over 40k in debt for a degree in which you're not entirely sure what you'll do with it. Having worked at non-profits, the pay is rather low for an entry level position, should you decide to go that route after you finish your MA. Stipends for doctoral students in theology-- -- should you go that route--is around 20k, depending on the school, some more and some less. YDS estimates almost 16k for just living expenses for masters students - to give you an estimate of what living in the NE area will be like. So if you do pursue doctoral work, you'll still have this debt to deal with while not having much of an income to pay it off, and while having to make end's meet. I apologize, this was the most bleak and depressing post, ever. I need to congratulate you, really, b/c you had a wonderfully successful masters application process! You have great options. Anyways, did you completely rule out ND? Feel free to message me if you have questions. I was accepted to ND, YDS, and BC two years ago, and decided to go to HDS instead, though my situation and interests are probably different than yours. Apologies for the typos.

I say Vanderbilt. Check out their faculty. With Emilie Townes and Laura Schneider coming, I think they will have many faculty there that you will be interested in working with (consider Ellen Armour, Dale Andrews, Stacey Floyd Thomas, and others). http://divinity.vanderbilt.edu/people/

I say PTS. Who in the BTI teaches reformed theology? Well, obviously, no one at BC's STM teaches it. No one at Harvard teaches it (at least not now, but they're thinking of hiring someone, when will that happen? Who knows?). Check out BU as I don't know their faculty well. PTS appears to have much breadth of historical theologians that relate to your interest, particularly medieval theology as its related to reformed thought. Both appear to have only one or so medieval specialist. There are also a greater number of historical theologians at PTS. You might want to specifically look at the course requirements for the degree. Perhaps both require two courses in ethics and two in systematics, but do you really want to take 2 courses in say Catholic ethics? Catholic systematic thought - if your area of interest is more reformed thought? Who at BC's STM does postmodern thought? Who at BC does postmodern thought (any thinkers you're considering specifically)? At BC's theology department (which is separate from the STM), I suppose you could consider Brian Robinette who does some modern philosophy such as phenomenology and mimetic theory. I suppose you'd go elsewhere for these courses in postmodern thought. I guess the same can be asked of PTS in terms of postmodern thought... You also would want to look at the course listings - in the past and if they have them projected for the future. How many courses are medieval history/theology will there be in the next two years at either schools?. This is great to look up for any school. You may also want to check to see your POI's won't be on leave in the next two years. This happens - so learn about the sabbatical rules at different schools. This semester at HDS, two professors who do philosophy of religion were on leave, and HDS doesn't have rules about "replacing" those types of classes. So, there was a dearth of philosophy of religion courses this semester. If you see your research goals being specific to reformed thought, and if you have limited exposure to it, then I wouldn't go to BC. Lastly, check out/talk to students and professors about about where their Masters students place for PhD programs. I don't think the STM has that great of a track record for placing students into doctoral programs, even at BC's GSAS Phd in Theology. The STM is not a funnel program like UChicago was/tends to be. I can't speak for PTS, but if you wanted to stay at Princeton for graduate work, perhaps the smart idea is to go to Princeton. And I'm not sure if simply b/c Catholic theology may be more "similar" to Episcopal theology, that it's a better idea to go to BC's STM. It really depends on what you want to study specifically. Anyways, just my thoughts.

I know when I applied (2 years ago), that ND took only 20 students into the MTS program. It's a pretty small program. The numbers may be even smaller than two years ago...

There's a dual degree b/w the MTS and the JD at Harvard. Note, it's a dual degree, and not a joint degree. You may want to look into that. Students apply to the other program during their first year - and with the registrar, you work out your course work. However, I think this will just drastically increase your debt levels. There have been a number of MTS students at HDS who have gone on to law school. So, it has been done... As someone who has worked for a few years in a large and leading corporate law firm, and a legal non-profit, I do suggest you get your feet wet by working as a paralegal of sorts first before attending law school. Law schools don't provide much financial aid, so I think it's good to be certain you want to attend law school before you take on 100k+ in debt.

Hector, Harvard's GSAS PhD has sent out it's admittances (via email) and rejections (via mail). Harvard's GSAS doesn't have a masters degree. HDS (the ThD, the MDiv, and the MTS) has also sent out its notifications. I suggest you email the admissions office if you don't hear anything soon.

There is no GSR (by which I assume you Graduate Study of Religion) at Harvard. There's the Committee on the Study of Religion under which the PhD (GSAS) and the ThD (HDS) are administered. I think what you study will greatly affect your experience at Harvard. It is true for OT/Hebrew Bible you could apply to the PhD (GSAS), ThD (HDS), and NELC which do have overlapping faculty. Same for Buddhist studies in which you could apply to more area studies departments. But, I know people who study say, Religion and Society (both PhD and ThD students) who are very content. I think the previous posterss are right that Harvard's Committee on the Study of Religion (under hte PhD - w/ it's 18 subfields) tries to be too many things to too many people and perhaps ends up being not much of anything for anyone, but this is a sweeping statement. At the same time, it does have its benefits, namely, its resources and the ability to say, learn from scholars in Buddhism while studying Christian history -- though at the doctoral level, I'm not sure how often this plays out. As others have mentioned, they are thinking of combining the ThD and the PhD so there will no longer be two doctoral degrees under the Committee on the Study of Religion. No one knows when this will happen.

Coolidge: There has been a MTS in Islamic Studies who works for the State Department as Presidential Management Fellow (PMF). The PMF is a pretty prestigious program and great way to establish a career in various federal agencies. Once you do your two year fellowship, you're automatically hired in some managerial position by a federal agency, and the pay is actually very good. It's also highly competitive. The format of the program has changed this past year. Previously, your school had to nominate you. Now, anyone can apply, but there are more rounds/tests. http://www.pmf.gov/about/index.aspx Now, I think this isn't something to "bank" on as you will be competing against people who have degrees in public policy, international policy, foreign affairs, law, public health, etc. These are the more common PMF degrees. I couldn't find the website that tells you about alumni, but there is one HDS alumn who did Islamic Studies who completed the PMF. Yes, one. But, the program does like a diversity of applicants. Also, I think that the number may be more reflective of the fact that very few MTS's apply overall, and less representative of "chances" you'll have. In terms of HDS MTS's who do not pursue doctoral work, there are a number that work at Harvard after they graduate. I know one person who is working at the library doing special collections stuff, and another who is working in an administrative position. I know another who teaches at a Catholic High School. There's another who is selling international immersion tours to school groups. There are a few who work for non-profits and such. The joke around Cambridge is all the barristas here have PhD's. AS others have mentioned, overall, the degree does not make you desirable as an employees (obviously, as how can studying Foucault's reading of Augustine OR your knowledge of the Zen Buddhism's implications for phenomonology prove that you're really good at, say, filing paper or doing data entry...employers could care less). If you specifically want to work on counter-terrorism, perhaps there's a more suitable degree such as public policy, international relations, or international security studies? I don't think these programs are necessarily well-funded either, but perhaps they will be better avenues to a job that deals with your interest.

I can speak of two of the programs you applied to. I got into HDS and YDS two years ago. Both schools offered me packages that covered all of tuition. Harvard offered to cover tuition plus provide a stipend of almost 10k. I think Yale provided me with a smaller stipend. I chose HDS. I leave my Masters program with almost no debt. My offer from HDS is not rare. Many students here get the same offers. Actually, both of my roommates who go to HDS have the same funding I do. YDS generally has pretty good funding, too. I don't know how these school fund international students... Just FYI, the estimate cost of attendance for HDS two years ago was about $46,910 (that's living expenses, tuition, books, fees, food, health insurance, etc.) They overestimate for somethings like books, personal expenses, etc. - but that's the number that they gave out. I say that it's actually less, though living in the Cambridge area can be very expensive. I honestly wouldn't borrow 50k for this degree. I know that a bit harsh of a statement, but that's a lot to take on for someone who wants to go into academia and knows that for the next 5 years, the only income I will have is a 19k stipend...and then who knows what assistant professorship position will be found after that. Should you get into a PhD and get an assistant professorship, then you'll finally be able to substantially pay off your debt, at the same time, while trying to establish a family, perhaps looking into buying property/a house, etc. A 19k stipend is not much in certain areas... Law school, at least in the States, is not well funded and they do not give out much aid. The debt that law students here take on is immense, well over $100k. So, thinking ahead, it's a lot of debt to take on for both a MTS/MAR and then a JD. Divinity school just seems a lot of debt to take on if you aren't absolutely sure this is something you want to pursue as a career, and may be changing paths to do something else, such as law. Anyways, that's just my opinion as I finish up this program. Having said that, I do believe there's a good chance that you will get funding if you get in. Harvard gives at least 50% tuition to all its students, at least it has in the past. Best of luck!

Yes, I would talk to people. I know there are Episcopalians at HDS who are on the ordination track and I think they are using their coursework here for seminary/ordination requirements -- though it seems that they will have to supplement their education with a certificate program/more courses but I don't think that takes that long... I also have taken at class at Episcopal Divinity School every semester I've been at HDS - and there's a professor there who is an ordained Episcopal priest and he got his MDiv and PhD from Union Theological Seminary. So, you can still get ordained without doing your MDiv at one of the 11 accredited Episcopal seminaries though it may require more work. So, I would ask around -- I certainly do not know the specifics... Best of luck!! I am sure you'll do great during the admissions process. Good luck with the discernment.

My advice as someone who is finishing up a MTS - do the MDiv at PTS, YDS, HDS, UChicago, or wherever. At least at HDS where the MDiv degree is a bit more academic than ministerial/pastoral focused than some other institutions/seminaries (in my opinion) more MDiv's get into the PhD. Sounds weird, but yet, more HDS MDiv's get into Harvard's doctoral program (the ThD and the PhD) than HDS MTS's and thats partially because MDivs have an extra year to get to know faculty, work out their interest, etc. Actually, many students here switch to the MDiv for that reason. I know the MDiv's at YDS do well in doctoral programs as well (and I am sure its the same at other schools). So, I think if ministry is something you are seriously discerning, do the MDiv and leave the option of academia open. When I look at my faculty's CVs, many of them did MDiv's. Furthermore, if you are going into graduate school straight from undergraduate (I worked/volunteered for 3 years beforehand), the field ed/ministry placements are useful. It will make you a more well-rounded candidate particularly if you lack work/world experience. Some people finish the MDiv and still want to pursue doctoral work, but take some time off, but use the degree to do hospital chaplaincy, campus ministry, work at non-profits, etc. It's a more marketable degree during job searches.... And, do you really want to do TWO masters? And then possibly go into doctoral programs? That's a total of 6/7 years of classes alone, not including the 1 year of for comps, and 2+ years of being a teaching assistant/fellow while writing your dissertation. I know people don't talk about this often, but even among those of us who love academia, you do get tired of classes, papers, finals, sections, etc... I guess the question is also what institution would allow you to fulfill your ordination requirements...

Kozo, katieliz456, kcald716, and zsmith91, thank you so much to you all!!! I am really grateful. This was such helpful and useful information. I was a bit overwhelmed at first by all that I didn't know and all that is required to apply to SLP programs as well as the massive undertaking that a change in vocational paths can be -- but it's wonderful to be able to reach out/ask for help, and then receive help/have my questions answered! I am sure I'll be referring to your posts often. Thanks, again.

Hello, I am looking for some advice. A little background: I'm currently finishing a Masters at Harvard in religious studies. I have a BA in philosophy and theology. I thought I wanted to pursue a career in academia, but now I am pretty sure that this is not for me. After undergrad, I did two years of AmeriCorps in Chicago and was a live-in Direct Support Professional (DSP) for men and women with developmental disabilities at a residential facility (mostly adults). There, I was introduced to SLP, speech therapy, and various other therapies (like OT, PT, and general sensory therapies). I really enjoyed my time there. Having said that, my exposure to SLP is very limited. I have never taken any courses in it, as most of my coursework has been in the humanities. I have some exposure to it during my work as a DSP, but it is in no way extensive. Still, I think it is something I may be interested in. I would say that my interest definitely arises from my work with individuals with disabilities, and a general interest in human development, disability studies, developmental disorders, etc. What would you suggest I do? If I volunteer somewhere, do I need an academic background/some coursework first? Some of you have done research in labs -- I don't see that really being an option for me as I have no background... Are there books I should read - some basic books for introductory purposes? I would appreciate any recommendations. What are some concerns about going in the field? It seem very competitive. Have any of you thought of pursuing vocations in other types of therapist? Why speech and language? What is about speech and pathology that intrigues/draws you? I am also considering physical therapy. Are schools going to be suspicious of my change in career trajectories? What are some things I should consider that I may be overlooking? I apologize, I know I must seem so ignorant, and that's cause I really do not know much. I thank you for any advice you can give. I'd really appreciate it. I know it's a lot of questions, so I don't expect all of them to be answered. For the upcoming year(s), I am thinking of working in the Boston/Cambridge and taking pre-reqs. at night, along with volunteering some places. I am fluent in Vietnamese but I can't read or write, so I was thinking of brushing up on that, as well as brushing up my Spanish. I know many of you are hearing back/waiting to hear back from programs now, so I wish you all the best!! Again, thank you in advance for any words of wisdom you can provide. Nancy

Harvard's GSAS Committee on the Study of Religion PhD program sent out acceptances to people YESTERDAY. I don't know about NELC. I think rejections are sent out via snail mail - which is how they have been done in the past. So, if you didn't hear already then... Sorry, the previous posting I typed via my phone after my POI/advisor sent me an email telling me personally that I was not accepted. I was on my way to a talk/meeting. Sorry for the confusion.

Harvard phd sent out acceptances.

I don't know about chances. I cannot offer you numbers. It does happen, but rarely. I know someone who got into both last year. But it's more often that people get in one or the other, not both. I guess really its most often people get in neither... However, after talking to my advisor at HDS he did note that though the admissions committee is the same for the PhD and the ThD, they may rank people differently for each program. Having said that, let's say the ThD took 6 this year for its 6 concentrations/fields. The PhD, though it has like 18 concentrations/fields, they probably won't take an individual for each field... For example, historically, if you do HB/OT, you have a better chance of getting in the ThD than the PhD simply b/c rarely do they admit HB/OT people into the PhD program, and that may be because Harvard also has the doctoral program in NELC. So, I don't know. It's weird...

Harvard GSAS Committee on the Study of Religion hasn't sent out acceptances yet. They usually come like 1.5-2 weeks after HDS sends out the THD results. I was told results should come late Feb./early March, maybe a little later this year due to the snow. The PhD has more concentrations so perhaps that's also why it takes longer. Should be noted that historically admitees hear first via email or phone, and rejection letters go out later.

Oh, wow. That's amazing. That's really exciting.

Hello! As you complete your MA's you will fine tune this but what perspective do you want to take? Do you want to do ethnographies? Are you into archives and textual narratives? Do you want to do constructive theology? Are you more focused on race, cultural, and critical theory? I will say that this work doesn't necessarily have to be done within a religion department. As someone mentioned, you could do anthropology, sociology, some other social science, or area studies. It really depends on what kind of work you want to do and what kind of project you envisioning this being. People will ask you what method will you employ -- so that's something to think about. Is this a religion and society project, a project on gender, race, and politics, or a project on trauma? Do you want to focus on literature or texts? Is it all of these things, and it can be.... Shelley Rambo at BU does work on theology and trauma. Her book, Spirit and Trauma: A Theology of Remaining, will be of interest to you. Perhaps their theology or practical theology PhD will be of interest to you. http://www.bu.edu/sth/profile/shelly-rambo/ If you are interested in race and theology, perhaps you should look at Jonathan Walton who does work in African American religious life and contemporary culture. Marla Frederick is also at Harvard. She does work in African American studies. She does ethnography and has a particular interest in the public private sphere which may be of interest to your work. I think she would be very interested in your work. http://www.hds.harvard.edu/people/faculty/jonathan-l-walton http://aaas.fas.harvard.edu/directory/faculty/marla-f-frederick As someone mentioned, Stacey Floyd Thomas at Vanderbilt may be a good person to connect with. http://divinity.vanderbilt.edu/people/bio/stacey-floyd-thomas If you are interested in a liberation perspective, Union Theological Seminary may be a good place for you. They have had faced some drama earlier this year after letting go or firing? Dionne Boissière. She is a lost for them and she would have been interested in your work. But James Cone is there, though I'd imagine he's retiring soon. Like real soon. However, Cornel West may be of resource - so would being in the NYC area. Union is part of a consortium where you could take classes at NYU, Columbia, and others schools in the area. You may also look at smaller schools like Chicago Theological Seminary. Womanist theologian JoAnne Marie Terrell is there. So is Laurel C. Schneider who does stuff in race, gender, and sexuality. http://www.ctschicago.edu/academics/faculty-and-administration/faculty-directory#14 There are few PhD programs in social work. As you will notice when you take classes, many of your professors will have degrees in sociology, economics, psychology, etc., and not necessarily social work as those programs tend to be a bit younger. Thus, if you wanted to take a clinical or psychological methodology, perhaps the social science/social work route would be better than the humanities - particularly going to a school with a great social work PhD program like U of C or Columbia, and then taking classes at either U of C's divinity school (Prof. Hopkins is there and he'd be interested in your work. He is a student of James Cone), or at Union Theological Seminary. I face this problem too and my work is very interdisciplinary. There's not one school that's a good fit mostly because you're doing something that is new and cutting edge. So, you have to kind of make a place for yourself. Some schools can handle that, and some can't, not only in terms of resources, but in terms of what they consider to be the necessary divisions between academic disciplines. That's something to keep an eye out for... Anyways, I wish you the best of luck! Sorry, I typed this fast, and I apologize for the typos!

Generally, schools will help cover some of the travel expenses to visit. At least, from what I can recall, HDS and Notre Dame offered about $200 (maybe a little more) for travel to visit during admitted students day or for an individual visit. This was two years ago...

TherewillbeLuke, I just wanted you to know that UChicago usually either gives no funding or 50% to its masters students. I applied two years ago, and that was the case. It is very rare that they give out full funding for tuition, it may be a few students a year or none. After going to admitted students day at UChicago, and talking to a professor about my work, he vouched for me, and my funding got bumped to 75%. It's still not great considering that their tuition is definitely higher than a lot of other schools, say BC's. Their tuition is so high b/c it used to be linked to the Phd and basically was a feeder program into the PhD, basically. So, it's tuition rate was the same as the PhD's (or what they would charge the PhD's). That has changed. Anyways, basically, 50% is the best UChicago gives - and it's more of a reflection on their lack of funding as an institution than anything else. In contrast, HDS gives either 50% funding or 100% with stipend to its students. Most of the schools you applied to have pretty good funding too, though I can't speak for Fordham at the masters level. Best of luck.

Theo-Be, so their wait-list is ranked? I wasn't sure how that worked. So, its it 6 people on the waiting list for just your area?

La sarar: My POI got back to me. My Question: "One quick question, is it the same admissions committee for both the ThD and PhD at Harvard?" he said: He said: "Yes. However, rankings might be different for each." Hope this helps!

I assume you're referring to Harvard. They don't release who is on the admissions committee, probably for good reason. I believe the admissions committee is composed of selected professors (or those who volunteer as I heard the scrambled to find people who were willing!) from the faculty of the Committee on the Study of Religion which is a lot of people. It is not the standing committee members of the Committee of the Study of Religion. It is a definite mix of people from various departments across the university, thus, its composed of people from this list: http://studyofreligion.fas.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k70796&tabgroupid=icb.tabgroup161173 Short answer: Yes, it's probably professors from whatever department. For example, the ThD Admissions Committee Chair is a person who doesn't teach at HDS but in the EALC (East Asian Languages and Cultures) department in the Yard. If Chair means anything - then perhaps he read applications. I am sure few applicants' interest will overlap with his, but he will have to review all those that were nominated. That being said, I do believe the admissions committee for the ThD and the PhD are the same. I am not sure though, but if they are the same why don't they just send out ThD and PhD letters at the same time, instead of the almost two week gap? Perhaps the GSAS as different regulations/rules/etc. But, I am going to double check by asking a professor. So, I'll get back to you. You seem to be wanted, so take that compliment, and dwell in it. I am sure you are a fantastic candidate. I wish you the best of luck.