ComeBackZinc

I was talking to a prof involved in the grad process today and he said that he could think of "dozens" of schools that weren't done notifying yet.

The new course schedule for next semester just came out. It's like Christmas.

Campus is quite lovely, too, now that they finished the construction. The English building isn't very nice, but then they so rarely are. The Writing department is getting folded into the new Harrington School of Communication and will be part of that new building, although I doubt it will be finished for years.

Got my MA in the Writing & Rhetoric department there. Really loved it, though as with anywhere, there's good and bad. As far as funding goes, I think you just have to wait and see.

It is a big, big department. It's very compartmentalized, in some ways, but I can see how it would be easy to feel lost. Lafayette, well-- it has to grow on you. Part of my affection for it lies in the fact that I know how much worse campus towns can be, but if you're coming from a big city, it'll be a tough transition, I'm sure.

I don't know if that's your real name, or a character name from a book or something, but it's pretty awesome.

I should be clear: a lot of people are not fans of Lafayette. Too small/quiet for them, too many junky parts of town, etc. Probably best to try and visit. As for why I love school so much... Well, I love my cohort (most certainly including Grace!), I love our department head, I love the faculty I've worked with, I love my mentor.... I can't speak to the other subfields, but the rhet/comp core is pretty special. There's five core classes that all rhet/comp people take: Classical Rhetoric, Modern Rhetoric, Postmodern Rhetoric, History and Theory of Composition Studies, and Empirical Research in Composition. Then you take a secondary or sometimes two, a linguistics requirement, and pass a language requirement. I'm pursuing secondary areas in Writing Programs Administration and ESL. For me, the breadth of the department, and the different kinds of research you can undertake, is really wonderful. Some of my peers fall completely on the theoretical and rhetorical side; I'm far on the empirical and composition side. Right now I'm taking a serious quant theory and stats class, whereas some others won't do much work like that at all. That freedom and breadth of research styles, and the faculty it takes to put into practice, is pretty special. I really enjoyed my MA experience, but one glaring flaw was that the relationship between the Writing and Rhetoric department and English department was, well, not the friendliest. I admired and respected people on both sides, and I truly believe in mutual respect and friendship across the disciplines, so that often made me feel unhappy. Here, it's much more cordial. Not to say that there aren't some issues, but everyone is respectful. And that goes double for the students. I am close friends with people from lit, theory and cultural studies, ESL and SLS, the creative writing program.... We share office space and go to bars and really get along. Less than stellar things: Aside from the stuff that is true anywhere, personality stuff.... the building is old and dilapidated and not going to get renovated during my time. The campus is huge, brick, and impersonal; as much as it pains me to praise the Hoosiers, Bloomington is just a much prettier campus. Also, the lack of centralized library stings. It's not that the library facilities are bad. It's just that they are, in Purdue fashion, completely utilitarian. I think there are a dozen libraries divided by department. (If you think that's bad, it's actually a reduction from more than 20 a decade or so ago, as I understand it.) That's the thing about the school. It's a big, grinding machine. A lot of really amazing research and teaching comes out of the university. But it will never feel cozy or homy. It's just not built that way. I'm cool with that, but other people have not found it nearly as comfortable. It took a long time for the campus to warm up for me, and it can seem imposing and lonely. (So. Much. Brick.) Also, most everybody makes $13,000 a year. Even in a cheap state, that's tough. You can make a bit more if you work at the writing lab or take on different teaching assignments that you're allowed to apply for after your first year, but competition is pretty fierce. The campus health center and our health insurance is pretty good, but not great. The food at the student union is good but overpriced. You can get around without a car pretty well except for the supermarkets, which tend to be farther away. Oh, and this is perfect for my research interests and convictions, but you need to be prepared to teach 1) students who are STEM majors and aren't that interested in your class (at least at first), and 2) non-native English speakers who may have pretty serious difficulty with expressing themselves in English. Well more than half of the 40 students I've taught here this year have not been native English speakers. There are support services to help you, and I think you'll find the experience rewarding, but it can be a real challenge. Finally, while our rhet/comp program is the oldest and one of the best, our general ranking is not that high. Which I hate to even bring up, but sadly in the context of this job market, you have to. I promised myself I wouldn't try to sway anybody I talked with on these boards into coming here; I hope it doesn't seem like I'm trying to do that.

Oh, I'm not at all convinced that rise I'm describing, and that the Bureau of Labor Statistics predicts, is a good thing. I find it very troubling.

That report was released less than a month ago, incidentally.

http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/03/10303267-where-the-good-jobs-are-coming Here's the BLS study for your perusal: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/ecopro.pdf

So you'll agree that the crux of the question is whether you are in fact correct when you claim that there are not a lot of jobs that require a generic MA or a specific MA in the humanities?

That assumption-- that humanities majors are inherently disadvantaged in this economy, and only STEM people are rewarded-- is commonly asserted but simply not supportable with evidence. http://www.outsideth...nd-education-2/ And students with English degrees outperform, on average, students with "practical" degrees like education, nursing, criminology, or communications. Which is to say nothing about those of us who, like me, didn't choose their major or degree based on earnings potential. While I won't pretend that a newspaper article is as rigorous as a peer-reviewed study, that article and many more like it are available with a little Googling. There is at least anecdotal evidence of a broad growth in the number of jobs requiring or recommending a master's degree. I'm not at all sure why you assume that the studies lyoness refers to don't control for selection effects; that's a pretty standard part of that kind of research. You know, I'm willing to have a discussion about data and methodology. I do that everyday, after all. I'm also willing to have a casual, off-the-cuff conversation about these issues and admit that none of us is 100% sure. But you seem to be going back and forth in a way that's not very productive. Edit: Forgot to put the link to expected income by major. http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/degrees.asp

My impression is that you're understating the number of jobs that require an MA, particularly given recent complaints about "degree creep." To be honest, I'm not sure that more jobs requiring a masters is a good thing, but the idea is out there: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/education/edlife/edl-24masters-t.html?pagewanted=all But I wouldn't pretend that article tells the whole story.

I don't mean to come off as if I'm sure here; it's certainly possible that the higher earnings and lower unemployment are all selection bias at work. And I should say that I'm generally the guy saying that people shouldn't go if they aren't funded. But the sheer weight of the numbers here make me feel pretty confident. I will try and look to see if there's any research similar to the BA research for MA degrees.

That claim is what I referenced above when I talked about selection bias and ability effects, which are terms I'm guessing you don't recognize. There has actually been a great deal of empirical work done to separate the value of a bachelor's degree from ability effects, and quite rigorously at that; those studies consistently find an advantage to a BA or BS that is greater than that conferred by pure ability. I'm unaware of any similar research concerning the MA, but I could look. Quantitative research on education and pedagogy are my particular academic focus, after all. In any event-- those are big claims that you're making, without evidence.

It'd be my pleasure. So: my official stance on PhD programs without funding is not to go. Not to be a jerk, just because of all the money/jobs stuff you're familiar with. But, since you seem resolved, let me fill you in. First, I don't want to speak above my knowledge on the odds of you getting funded. I will email the director of ICAP (Introductory Composition at Purdue), who is awesome and a friend of mine, and see what the chances are of you adjuncting your first year, and I'll try to see if anybody knows what the odds are of you getting funded. Since Purdue doesn't permit anyone to get out of taking freshman comp, and it's a five day a week class here so it takes more teacher, and since we have 33,000 undergrads, it's a giant program. If not, then I would definitely look into Ivy Tech, the local community college. It's actually a great school, as far as CCs go, with good funding and modern facilities. Tippecanoe County has to grow on you, and it's obviously not a metropolis, but there are a lot of things to recommend about it. First, rent is cheap. My girlfriend and I live in a really big two bedroom with a downstairs storage room, separate laundry room, attic, backyard, off-street parking, located in a good neighborhood right downtown (20 minute walk to campus, 10 minute bike)-- and we pay $800. I've seen plenty of one bedrooms for $400-$500. I will say that you definitely have to shop around a lot. Because the school's so big, there's lots of scuzzy housing and you need to shop around. But there are a lot of gems, too. My advice is to live on the Lafayette side, like I do. There are nice places to live in West Lafayette, but it's dominated by undergrad housing, and I wanted to live away from the madness. The Wabash river runs between West Lafayette and Lafayette. But as I said, if you live downtown in Lafayette, you're really close to campus, and there's actually a decent bus system that's free to ride with a Purdue ID. Also, there's a dedicated land bridge that is just for pedestrians and bikers, which takes you from downtown Lafayette and the bars and restaurants there over to the Wabash Landing, where there are a bunch of restaurants and a movie theater. Plus sides, there are actually a lot of cool bars and restaurants, with a good mix of ethnic foods near campus. Also, the farmer's market that runs from April through October has been going on for over a hundred years and is big, eclectic, and awesome. Chicago is only two hours away and Indianapolis is only one. Downsides to the area definitely include the feeling that all these cool bars and restaurants are half empty all the time, and the fact that no cool bands come here, because it's too close to Chicago to be worth making a stop. I could tell you about more school specific things if you want. I should preface this by saying I am over the moon happy here and so I'm pretty biased.

Now, I am going to curse myself so that people think I'm some capitalist goon. But, by any number of metrics, people with MAs outperform the general population economically. People with MAs have a significantly higher median income and lower unemployment. And despite what someone said in another thread, over a lifetime of earnings, you'll more than make back the money that you spend on your MA, especially if you can get any kind of funding or an instate rate. Sure, there's ability effects/selection bias in there, but it appears to be a major advantage. Uh, sorry.

Asian Theater Journal published a memorial article about my father last fall. My favorite quote is from a former student of his who became very close friends with him. "That first day, I lay on the floor of Wesleyan’s ’92 Theater, as the young, somewhat wild-eyed Fritz exhorted us. ‘Artaud says we must be as victims at the stake, signaling to each other through the flames!’ he declaimed. ‘This is a workshop in transformation. And you will be transformed.’ And I was”

My own Rilke: I want to be with those who know secret things or else alone.

you had such a vision of the streets as the street hardly understands -TS Eliot

I didn't hear from several of the schools that accepted me until mid-March. With Purdue specifically, I know that the many different concentrations within the department notify at different times. It's just too soon to tell. You can only wait. (And I know that's frustrating.)

I'm staring at a blinking cursor, slowly going mad from the pressure to finish this paper for tomorrow, and wondering if you guys really want to be doing this next year....

Something to take your mind off of apps, if you need that, or perhaps to remind us why we love the study of English in the first place. My offering: "Love is to me that you are the knife which I turn within myself." -- Franz Kafka

http://science-professor.blogspot.com/2010/02/dear-applicant.html

I can only speak in a limited anecdotal sense, but in both my MA program and my PhD program, students have become pregnant and had babies. In each case, the department was super supportive, and they were both able to continue on schedule with the help of a sympathetic administration. I think the chances are good you would find your own program similarly accommodating.