lecorbeau

I felt compelled to weigh in. After all, I in essence applied "straight from undergrad" in that I had no "real" work experience, but I got into every school I applied to.

However, if I do say so myself, I made good use of my BA years. During my time as an undergraduate I held down myriad relevant internships (of which two were with the best-known security organizations in the world at their overseas missions/delegations), secured a very prestigious US govt fellowship that sent me overseas for a year and a half in an unstable region, learned two foreign languages to a "C2" level (with corresponding certifications), and took a year off to travel to 40+ countries (and volunteer in the West Bank and Kashmir).

My rationale to apply to graduate school sooner rather than later was rooted in my desire to have a more in-depth academic foundation in international relations that I feel I lack (my undergrad degree was a bit scattered discipline-wise), and to be blunt, "get grad school over with". Most of my peers with any measure of ambition are currently pursuing advanced degrees (and though the system is totally different, most 22-24 year-olds in continental Europe have a masters degree just by dint of how their system works), our world of shocking education inflation has made the BA tantamount to a HS diploma, and I knew that the more time I spent in a certain career track the less I would want to put my career on hold for two years to get an MA. I have met plenty of diplomats/NGO officials/etc. overseas with precisely this latter concern, as federal programs that send/pay government employees to pursue graduate degrees are highly competitive and only allotted to a few people so no one can bank on those ever coming through. Furthermore, at IHEID Geneva I will have opportunities to find relevant part-time work during my studies. And at Sciences Po Paris they have a program where one can supplant a dissertation by being placed as a "junior consultant" for a year at an international organization or NGO. So when I graduate I will have an MA and more work experience, truly the best of both worlds.

So if I do it now, the sooner I'll pay off my loans (at this rate I'll be in my early thirties), the sooner I won't have to face any obstacles to professional mobility, I will have evaded being a 28-30+ something in school and likely suffering a massive hit to my quality of life (this being an obviously personal choice), and should I ever decide in the very, very distant future to go into the private sector or academia I'll already be on the right foot.

Something I will be sure to tell all future applicants to grad schools overseas is to get used to weeks of restless nights. After all, because of the time difference all the action happens while you're sleeping and at any moment (whether it's midnight or 4 AM) you could get life-altering news in your inbox. I can't tell you how many times in the last few weeks I've involuntarily gotten up around 3 AM only to check my inbox before going back to sleep again

I just wanted to offer my two cents, and you can take what you will from it. While I'm still young (I'm 24), I had a similar epiphany a few years back. At the time I had held down several internships in Hollywood all with the intention of breaking into the film industry (I wanted to work in international distribution). But sooner or later I realized it was the "international" rather than "distribution" that interested me most, and I needed to switch career paths. And since I was two quarters away from graduating from college---I needed to do it fast.

At first I felt hopeless and stuck in a sort of professional rut. But I figured my happiness was at stake and said to hell with it and resolved to make a gradual, but ultimately, decisive, transition. I started out doing thankless PR/admin/business-y stuff for a local foreign affairs-related non-profit with very little gratification but it was still closer to what I wanted than what I was doing before. I then contributed an article to my school's foreign affairs journal about film industry trends around the world. With time, I had accumulated enough indirectly relevant experience to land a State Dept language scholarship (which led to two years working and studying overseas), internships with two of the largest international security organizations in the world, and ultimately, my acceptance to all four graduate schools I applied to.

I know there's a bit of an age discrepancy between us, but I guess what I'm saying is the route offered up by charlotte_asia and a few others on this thread is sound and totally feasible. I would know---I'm speaking from experience.

I'm guessing this was directed at me, which I suppose intellectually speaking is fair enough. Refer to my "context" bit earlier. But furthermore, I just find it impossibly arrogant on Sciences Po's part to assume that I, despite holding offers from other, equally reputable schools that I needed to accept/refuse by mid-April, was doing nothing but anxiously awaiting the result of their scholarship (and I didn't appreciate their stringing me along). Frankly, Sciences Po had been my dream school for years but my attendance was 100% reliant on that scholarship, so I couldn't afford to take the huge gamble of accepting their offer and hopelessly waiting to see if I can afford to go to graduate school.

Again, this was an entirely personal decision.

Disclaimer: I am from the west coast of the US, and am attending a university next year with fairly limited name recognition. So I'm not getting on my high horse.

That said, I like to think that in my life I have researched colleges and universities to an exhaustive, perhaps even unhealthy extent. My research into graduate MPA/IR/etc. programs was no different. I also participated in an academic youth camp based in Poughkeepsie, NY several summers ago. And despite all that, I've never heard of Marist. I'd be surprised if an employer outside of Dutchess County has heard of the school, let alone had an opinion of its MPA program.

Furthermore the mere mention in your post of a possibility of non-accreditation raises some major red flags.

But what do I know?

Disclaimer: I am from the west coast of the US, and am attending a university next year with fairly limited name recognition. So I'm not getting on my high horse.

That said, I like to think that in my life I have researched colleges and universities to an exhaustive, perhaps even unhealthy extent. My research into graduate MPA/IR/etc. programs was no different. I also participated in an academic youth camp based in Poughkeepsie, NY several summers ago. And despite all that, I've never heard of Marist. I'd be surprised if an employer outside of Dutchess County has heard of the school, let alone had an opinion of its MPA program.

Furthermore the mere mention in your post of a possibility of non-accreditation raises some major red flags.

But what do I know?

Disclaimer: I am from the west coast of the US, and am attending a university next year with fairly limited name recognition. So I'm not getting on my high horse.

That said, I like to think that in my life I have researched colleges and universities to an exhaustive, perhaps even unhealthy extent. My research into graduate MPA/IR/etc. programs was no different. I also participated in an academic youth camp based in Poughkeepsie, NY several summers ago. And despite all that, I've never heard of Marist. I'd be surprised if an employer outside of Dutchess County has heard of the school, let alone had an opinion of its MPA program.

Furthermore the mere mention in your post of a possibility of non-accreditation raises some major red flags.

But what do I know?

this seems entirely fair to me.

Yes, San Diego is far nicer than LA.

Minus a few select areas in the LA area, LA is simply not a nice city. This is coming from a life long Californian.

That's great, DualCitizenIR. I've been keeping up with your progress ever since you were in the IHEID forums. You're going to have a blast in London!

Thanks for all the tips guys. I accepted LSE last night!

Thanks.
For those interested:
I talked to admissions:
1. Last year, there were 6 applications for 2 spots at Fletcher. GWU usually has three spots, but it's more flexible. Academic merit in the first semester is the single most important factor.
2. The house has about 120 slots for first-year. Alltogether, they expect to have an incoming class (all the programs) of a little more than 300. Assuming not everyone applies, chances of getting in are about 1:2/3. The factors that they consider are: 1. Financial situation, 2. Distance and 3. Academic merit. Seeing as they have a lot of people from Switzerland, people from the US should have a high chance of getting in. My home address is Germany, so I might have problems. We can also apply for housing at uni Geneva, which varies a lot. Not sure how much outside housing would cost.
3. They weren't quite clear regarding classes and how to take them as a MIA students, but it seems to be first come-first serve basis for non-priority classes.

I'm currently leaning towards Geneva, just because it's a lot cheaper than my second option. I still haven't decided if I want to switch to MIS IR, but I'm currently leaning to not switching, because most of the classes I want to take are in other departments. I would love to take one or two of the core MIS IR classes, but I'm not sure how possible that is. I'll definitely be applying to Fletcher for third semester, so I plan to work my butt of in the first semester to get a perfect 6.0.

I'm def. considering doing a PhD afterwards, which is possible with the MIA if you're great (you can even do the Fast-Track option if "you're exceptional"), even though they recommend studying the MIS if you want to pursue a PhD. I'll see about classes next year and see if their MIS classes become less security-oriented, otherwise I'll stay in the MIA and make that word.

My second option is SAIS, with 20.000 fellowship, so I'm looking at 80 K in debt. How do you think does Geneva compare to SAIS?

I have accepted my offer to IHEID.

I have accepted my offer to IHEID.

If I were you I'd take Hertie in a heartbeat. It's on its way to being a top-ranked school, and from a personal standpoint you can't beat living in Berlin (which is a MUCH cheaper, and arguably more fun, city than NY!) for two years. If you can swing improving your German then all the better.

If I were you I'd take Hertie in a heartbeat. It's on its way to being a top-ranked school, and from a personal standpoint you can't beat living in Berlin (which is a MUCH cheaper, and arguably more fun, city than NY!) for two years. If you can swing improving your German then all the better.

My interpretation is that when schools have 2nd year students re-apply for funding, or have 2nd-year only fellowships/scholarships (which most of them do), it's because they can better gauge your academic merits once you're at the school. Say you're one of those people who doesn't test well, and so didn't get a merit fellowship though you got in on the strength of your SOP/WE/LOR. Well, when you've cultivated a great relationship with your professors, are contributing every day in class and writing academic-journal level essays, they feel a lot more comfortable giving you a substantial fellowship for your second year.

First-year fellowships are for people who knock their applications out of the park; second-year fellowships are for those who excel once at the school.


Now, as for the debate about costs of attendance--I encourage everyone to really dig deeply into the numbers at each school. For example, I've been accepted to UC San Diego IR/PS (waiting on funding, damn them) and wait-listed at Johns Hopkins SAIS. You'd think, just looking at the school names, that UC San Diego would be much more affordable; it's a state school, it's not in DC, etc. However, once I crunched the numbers there's a slightly different story there. UC San Diego is a little more expensive for the first year, and for the second year it is cheaper but not by tens of thousands. I've actually laid out the costs in a google spreadsheet, which you are all more than welcome to look at. Since all the numbers up at schools right now are not for the next academic year, I was very pessimistic in my estimates of how much COA would go up (10% per year).

I think it's well worth the time to dig into the COA numbers; for me, I managed to shave a few thousand off of JHU-SAIS by inputting my current numbers (I live in the suburbs outside of DC so I have a good gauge of living costs). Even more, I figured out what the price difference is between the two schools, and how truly expensive even a state school can be without financial aid.

For me, the bottom line comes down to a few options: if I get significant funding from UCSD, pack up for the West Coast; if I don't, decline and wait to hear from JHU-SAIS while job-hunting in DC; if I get middling funding from UCSD, think hard about whether I really want to go to a non-DC, middling but not elite reputation school in order to save $30,000 on my loans.

Now, as to whether that $30,000 of savings is worth it--well, that's when you dig out student loan calculators and statistics on your ideal job sector. Grad PLUS loans are currently a fixed 7.9% rate, which is what you would top off your costs with after funding and the max $20,000 in Stafford loans at 6.8%; you can go to the Direct Loan site and plug in your debt (COA - funding - $20,000 @ 7.9%, plus $20,000 @ 6.8) and your timeline (10 yrs? 25?) to figure out your monthly payments. Can you comfortably cover that, plus existing debt, in the job you realistically think you can attain?

Private-sector-aimed students can potentially cover higher loan payments than NPO/public sector students; however, if you're okay with having the government forgive part of your loans and think the program will be around in 10 years, NPO/public sector professionals can enroll in the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program (make 120 payments while employed by a 501©3 or public agency, and have the government wipe the slate clean on the rest of the debt).

As I think you can tell from all the numbers I'm throwing around, I'm trying to make my decision as rationally as possible and take a good hard look at the kind of debt I'll be taking on. This is actually because I didn't really think as hard as I should have about it when I applied to grad school; I chose my schools by curriculum, reputation and my interactions with their respective staff and alumni. Now that I have to think about funding (or lack thereof) and am no longer in my daydream of "of course I'll get aid!" I need to take all of that emotion out, and evaluate whether it's really feasible for me to go to grad school right now or if I should look for a job, boost my credentials, put aside some funds and re-apply next admissions cycle.

Hi all, I just thought it would be a good idea to start a thread and chronicle any insight offered by applicants, current students, and those who have already graduated/well into their careers about decision-making when deciding to take out loans, the psychology and process of going into debt, and the practicalities of living day-to-day with a decade or more of repayment in a field where salaries rarely go into six digits. I hope this can be a substantive, meaningful thread that will serve as a guide for those currently weighing their options, as well as future applicants. At the very least, it might help out the few people I've seen casually mentioning the $120,000+ in loans they'll be incurring.

My story: I was accepted to all of the schools I applied to, which is obviously great. But I know deep down that sometime in the next few weeks I'll have to face the facts: I will have to turn down my #1 choice (dream school since 2004, believe it or not) and opt for the school that I know will be financially much less burdensome in the long-run (compare, at least according to rough calculations and allowing for wide margins of error the cost for two years' tuition/living expenses-- Dream School: $65-80,000 no possibility of part-time job vs Other School: $15-25,000 w/PT job $35-45,000 w/o PT job). It is of course an adult and wise decision to make, but that doesn't make me feel any better about it.

Naturally I'll survive and don't get me wrong, I feel so fortunate to be in such a privileged position (I'm not sulking around the house all day or anything!). But I still wanted to solicit the opinions of the GradCafe govt/IR/MPA/etc. community about your personal stories, rationales behind taking on your loan commitments, debt in general for degrees in this field, living with repayment, pros/cons, anything---whether you're applying to schools, currently enrolled, or even paying off your loans as we speak! Thank you!

I felt compelled to weigh in. After all, I in essence applied "straight from undergrad" in that I had no "real" work experience, but I got into every school I applied to.

However, if I do say so myself, I made good use of my BA years. During my time as an undergraduate I held down myriad relevant internships (of which two were with the best-known security organizations in the world at their overseas missions/delegations), secured a very prestigious US govt fellowship that sent me overseas for a year and a half in an unstable region, learned two foreign languages to a "C2" level (with corresponding certifications), and took a year off to travel to 40+ countries (and volunteer in the West Bank and Kashmir).

My rationale to apply to graduate school sooner rather than later was rooted in my desire to have a more in-depth academic foundation in international relations that I feel I lack (my undergrad degree was a bit scattered discipline-wise), and to be blunt, "get grad school over with". Most of my peers with any measure of ambition are currently pursuing advanced degrees (and though the system is totally different, most 22-24 year-olds in continental Europe have a masters degree just by dint of how their system works), our world of shocking education inflation has made the BA tantamount to a HS diploma, and I knew that the more time I spent in a certain career track the less I would want to put my career on hold for two years to get an MA. I have met plenty of diplomats/NGO officials/etc. overseas with precisely this latter concern, as federal programs that send/pay government employees to pursue graduate degrees are highly competitive and only allotted to a few people so no one can bank on those ever coming through. Furthermore, at IHEID Geneva I will have opportunities to find relevant part-time work during my studies. And at Sciences Po Paris they have a program where one can supplant a dissertation by being placed as a "junior consultant" for a year at an international organization or NGO. So when I graduate I will have an MA and more work experience, truly the best of both worlds.

So if I do it now, the sooner I'll pay off my loans (at this rate I'll be in my early thirties), the sooner I won't have to face any obstacles to professional mobility, I will have evaded being a 28-30+ something in school and likely suffering a massive hit to my quality of life (this being an obviously personal choice), and should I ever decide in the very, very distant future to go into the private sector or academia I'll already be on the right foot.

People underestimate the degree to which they can avoid debt if they are willing to put in the work to improve their admission profile.

I would argue that many critical admission/fin-aid metrics, including GPA, GRE, obtaining internships/jobs (not necessarily your performance in them), and foreign language boil down to who cares more. Not inherent intelligence, not your financial resources, not where you were born. Effort, pure and simple. Put in the work, and you get paid for it (literally).

If you spend 4 hours a night studying in college, you're going to have a great GPA. If you spend 500+ hours studying for the GRE, you're going to have a sick score. If you are willing to troll online for hours to find relevant internships/jobs and send out 20+ applications, you're going to get one. If you take time every single day to study a foreign language, you will become proficient in it. Polishing your SOP, researching your schools to detail exactly how you are a fit for them - so much of apps (and life?) comes down to desire. There are trade-offs involved: time you spend doing those things means time not spent with friends, lovers, a good book, a sunny meadow on a spring day. It might not make you happier, or well-rounded. But if you put in the work, I guarantee someone will give you admission + serious funding.

I'll be attending one of my top schools on a full ride. It didn't just happen - I did all the things mentioned above, and more. Sometimes it sucked, GRE prep particularly so, as I ended up at about 750 hours prep time. But the thought that kept me going was that not being able to attend grad school, which I wouldn't be able to sans major funding, would suck infinitely more. So I put in the work, and now I get to go to school for free. Not because I'm smarter (guarantee that's not the case), not because I'm richer (my bank account laughs at this): because I cared more, and did the work other people weren't willing to do.

You can write this off as self-aggrandizement. Or get upset because you didn't get the financial aid you wanted and think I'm insinuating you're lazy. But fundamentally, grad school admissions and fin-aid are not mysteries. Everyone knows the things they look at to make decisions. It's your choice whether you invest the time and out-work competitors.

Full ride or not, let us not forget about living expenses (unless said full-ride also includes a living stipend, of course)

Something I will be sure to tell all future applicants to grad schools overseas is to get used to weeks of restless nights. After all, because of the time difference all the action happens while you're sleeping and at any moment (whether it's midnight or 4 AM) you could get life-altering news in your inbox. I can't tell you how many times in the last few weeks I've involuntarily gotten up around 3 AM only to check my inbox before going back to sleep again

Full ride or not, let us not forget about living expenses (unless said full-ride also includes a living stipend, of course)

Hi all, I just thought it would be a good idea to start a thread and chronicle any insight offered by applicants, current students, and those who have already graduated/well into their careers about decision-making when deciding to take out loans, the psychology and process of going into debt, and the practicalities of living day-to-day with a decade or more of repayment in a field where salaries rarely go into six digits. I hope this can be a substantive, meaningful thread that will serve as a guide for those currently weighing their options, as well as future applicants. At the very least, it might help out the few people I've seen casually mentioning the $120,000+ in loans they'll be incurring.

My story: I was accepted to all of the schools I applied to, which is obviously great. But I know deep down that sometime in the next few weeks I'll have to face the facts: I will have to turn down my #1 choice (dream school since 2004, believe it or not) and opt for the school that I know will be financially much less burdensome in the long-run (compare, at least according to rough calculations and allowing for wide margins of error the cost for two years' tuition/living expenses-- Dream School: $65-80,000 no possibility of part-time job vs Other School: $15-25,000 w/PT job $35-45,000 w/o PT job). It is of course an adult and wise decision to make, but that doesn't make me feel any better about it.

Naturally I'll survive and don't get me wrong, I feel so fortunate to be in such a privileged position (I'm not sulking around the house all day or anything!). But I still wanted to solicit the opinions of the GradCafe govt/IR/MPA/etc. community about your personal stories, rationales behind taking on your loan commitments, debt in general for degrees in this field, living with repayment, pros/cons, anything---whether you're applying to schools, currently enrolled, or even paying off your loans as we speak! Thank you!

Hi all, I just thought it would be a good idea to start a thread and chronicle any insight offered by applicants, current students, and those who have already graduated/well into their careers about decision-making when deciding to take out loans, the psychology and process of going into debt, and the practicalities of living day-to-day with a decade or more of repayment in a field where salaries rarely go into six digits. I hope this can be a substantive, meaningful thread that will serve as a guide for those currently weighing their options, as well as future applicants. At the very least, it might help out the few people I've seen casually mentioning the $120,000+ in loans they'll be incurring.

My story: I was accepted to all of the schools I applied to, which is obviously great. But I know deep down that sometime in the next few weeks I'll have to face the facts: I will have to turn down my #1 choice (dream school since 2004, believe it or not) and opt for the school that I know will be financially much less burdensome in the long-run (compare, at least according to rough calculations and allowing for wide margins of error the cost for two years' tuition/living expenses-- Dream School: $65-80,000 no possibility of part-time job vs Other School: $15-25,000 w/PT job $35-45,000 w/o PT job). It is of course an adult and wise decision to make, but that doesn't make me feel any better about it.

Naturally I'll survive and don't get me wrong, I feel so fortunate to be in such a privileged position (I'm not sulking around the house all day or anything!). But I still wanted to solicit the opinions of the GradCafe govt/IR/MPA/etc. community about your personal stories, rationales behind taking on your loan commitments, debt in general for degrees in this field, living with repayment, pros/cons, anything---whether you're applying to schools, currently enrolled, or even paying off your loans as we speak! Thank you!