thedig13

I'm trying to get into the Honors Program here at my university, and am currently putting the finishing touches on my application for the Honors Program. As per the recommendation of some here, I'm planning to use my Honors Thesis as my Writing Sample. Part of the application is a thesis proposal. I'm considering an Honors Thesis on the Intercommunal Youth Institute (later renamed the Oakland community school), which was a very, very successful primary and secondary school founded, run, and operated by the original Black Panthers. Unfortunately, after doing some research on current scholarship on the IYI/OCS, I've found out that a number of publications covering this topic have already been produced. It's not a super-worn-out topic, but it's certainly been dealt with before, usually tangentially, but occasionally directly. Essentially, I'd like to know: How much will it hurt my application if my writing sample covers a topic that has already been examined and covered a bit? Do graduate schools care? Do they really expect you to have contributed to existing literature before you start graduate school? Also, if my thesis turns out decent, should I try and get it published? My school has a few journals dedicated exclusively to undergraduate research. Will these journals be taken seriously, or is getting published in an undergraduate research journal entirely pointless? If it's pointless and I decide to submit anyway, will that hurt my application?

TMP -- You'll be missed. Hopefully, you'll check back once in a while and keep in touch with us. Thanks for everything.

To be honest, I'm not 100% sure what I'm looking for in a POI, since my historical interests aren't entirely set-in-stone yet. However, if I wanted to write a dissertation on, say, the Black Panthers and their interactions with COINTELPRO, would a historian who specialized more in the Af-Am Civil Rights Movement be unsuitable for my needs? Essentially, a large part of the reason I'm asking this question is that, when researching potential POI's, I'd like to understand where to draw the line between "He/she might be a great POI and a phenomenal advisor" and "This person's research is too irrelevant to my specific field of interest."

Thanks, all! I really appreciate it! Would it be too broad to be looking up post-WWII African-American historians and/or African-American Civil Rights historians? There's a few people around who have done work in these broader topics that will have certainly given them some degree of expertise in the Black Power Movement, but I'd like to know if that's too far out of bounds for a POI.

As much as I don't want to hijack the thread, nobody's posted in a while, so... I've recently developed an interest in post-WWII African-American History, with some emphasis on the Civil Rights and Black Power movements -- especially the Black Panthers. I'm already doing some reading on UCLA's Scot Brown and Stanford's Clayborne Carson, but also would like to know about other potential POI's. If anybody here knows somebody in their department and/or has heard of professors who might be a good fit, feel free to drop names.

As an undergrad who posts/reads/lurks within the History forums quite often, but with no actual application/graduate school experience, I can only echo what others (my own professors, other posters, grad students I've met, etc) have said in the past. So take this advice with a grain of salt. That being said, I urge you to at least try for some of the more prestigious schools out there. A number of people here who are currently grads at Ivies and other big-name schools came from smaller, more modest state schools. Perhaps you don't want to *only* apply to Ivies, but the general consensus here is that it can pay off, and is always worth a shot. In any case, your language training, Writing Sample, Statement of Purpose, and LORs each weigh in just as heavily as (if not more than) where you went to school or what your GPA was. In terms of figuring out which program is best for you, the best thing to do is to look through each Department of History's faculty listing. Virtually every school has one with bios on professors which you can look through. If a professor has a relevant field of specialization, take a closer look at their publications. Read up on some of the work they've done. If their research interests you, establish contact and send them an email. Introduce yourself, tell them you're thinking about graduate school and are interested in working with them. Doing this research on who's who is a rather tedious process, but as far as I know, it's the only way to do it. There's no global database with a listing of professors and the schools they teach at and their specializations. Also, placements. Do research on how good the Department's (and your potential advisor's) placements are. Some smaller-name colleges that aren't typically considered Ivy-quality have phenomenal placement records. The academia job market is nothing like the job-job market. If you're going to go into academia, where the school's past graduates have ended up (both in terms of the quality of the school and the position within the department) is a far more accurate indicator of a quality program than name-recognition or how "prestigious" the average Joe thinks the school is. While most employers outside of academia assume "Harvard" means "smart" and "[random state school]" means "mediocre", within academia, this isn't really the case and name-recognition isn't quite as vital. So, again, placements.

I'm sure I'm starting to annoy you guys by now, but I have yet another follow-up question: I stopped by a professor's office hours, one who I'm especially interested in working with. Sadly, from his body language and his tone of voice, as well as the nature of his responses, I felt like he was generally disinterested in anything I had to say or ask. It was slightly upsetting because I had a lot to talk about (like course content for his trademark class on the 1960s, his current research interests, what he'll be teaching over the summer), but his answers were jarringly short. For instance, when I asked him if he had any thoughts or insights on the graduate school application process, he mentioned obvious things like "letters of recommendation, a good GPA, and high GRE scores" as if I had absolutely zero idea of even the rudimentary aspects of an application. To be fair, it was the last 15 minutes of office hours, and it really seemed like he was preoccupied with something else. Essentially, though, I'm incredibly discouraged. It's particularly devastating because he's the only professor in the department whose interests align with mine almost perfectly. I was really looking forward to building some sort of awesome, instantaneous vulcan-mind-meld connection (a person who teaches a history course on the music of the 1960s and the Beatles *HAS* to be awesome, right?), and, instead, I feel like I got the cold shoulder. As I see it, I have two options moving forward: I can cut my losses and give up on him as a POI, taking what classes I have to with him and staying out of his way otherwise. Or, I can take more courses with him with the hopes of standing out as a stellar student, and maybe make my name stick a little bit more firmly in his memory. If anybody has any advice on how I should deal with this moving forward, please help me out?

I'm giving you advice as somebody who is nowhere near his own application season, so please take my advice with a grain of salt, but you should definitely squeeze Istanbul into your plans. It's probably the most historically-rich city in the history of everything that's ever existed, and it's on my list of places to visit during the summer between my senior year and my first year of graduate school. Even if you're accepted into a good program with funding, you've already stated that it won't be one of your top choices. As I understand it (and I pray to God that somebody corrects me if I'm wrong), graduate programs in history smile upon prospects who've done a bit of traveling. It might be worth it to hold off on graduate school for a year or two, and then re-apply later once you've built up some real-world experience and a few stories from your adventures.

All right. I will stop by the Department of History to check up on what Professors' office hours are right now.

That makes sense. So, when I approach them, should I drop by office hours and ask for some sort of an appointment, or should I introduce myself via e-mail first? I feel like the first option might be a bit abrupt and somewhat-rude, but, I've tried contacting professors by e-mail before, and they've simply never replied to me in the past. If I'm planning to take a course with them in the future, and they've already shunned an e-mail from me, how do I handle that in the classroom? Will it be awkward?

Isn't it a little weird to just e-mail a professor who doesn't know who you are and ask for an appointment? I mean, it's one thing to wait before contacting a professor who's actually teaching you or has taught a class you were in, but how would you break the ice with a prof. you have no real excuse to contact?

I second what svh said. There's no need to feel pressured for an answer, but the worst thing you can do is simply not respond. Just indicate that you've received their offer of admission and really appreciate it, but haven't made a finalized decision yet. If you eventually decide to go somewhere else, just be professional about it, thank them for the offer, and respectfully decline.

this is actually a big reason why I'm thinking about taking summer coursework -- many classes that I want that are in high demand will be taught by profs I'm particularly interested in over the summer, and since I'll be applying for grad school as an undergrad senior, I thought that building relationships early would help. I figured that taking 1 or 2 summer courses in history would give me a chance to cultivate these relationships. Thus, I might be able to meet profs in my field early-on while knocking off major requirements in my area of interest (two birds with one stone, if you will).

Thanks for your input. As per the advice I've been given so far, I'm re-organizing my plans for the next 18 months to try and squeeze in an extra language, which will give me second-year proficiency in Spanish and first-year proficiency in a second language by the time my application season rolls around. Hopefully, that'll be enough.

A follow-up question to a previous post I made about 3 days ago: I'm thinking about taking summer coursework at my school. However, at my school, summer sessions are divided into 2 quarters of grueling 5-week courses (double the lecture hours), instead of the usual 10-week quarters. While I'll only be taking half as many classes (in order to compensate for double the lecture hours), I still have concerns about whether the course material will be "dumbed down" to accommodate the shorter duration of the class, and also whether I'll have enough time to really internalize and grasp the material. Although I'd like to get a lot of the courses out of the way ASAP, I'd like to actually master the course content as well. Thus, I have 3 reservations: 1) Will the course content be "dumbed down"? 2) Will I have time to really internalize and master the material? 3) How will this look on a graduate school application? Do schools frown upon students who take a somewhat-significant portion (approx. 3 courses out of 13 total) of their major-related courses over the summer? Any thoughts/opinions/experiences would be appreciated.

Thanks for your input so far, but now have a related follow-up question: I'm thinking about taking courses over this summer. However, while the typical quarter (at my school) is 10 weeks, each of the 2 summer quarters is compressed into a grueling 5-week gauntlet (with double the lecture hours per week). I'm considering a number of upper-division History courses (all of which deal with subjects I'm very interested in learning about), but my concern is that, given the (perhaps) more rushed nature of these summer courses, I may not have the same time to internalize the material and/or the professor may have to rush through or "dumb down" some of the content. Obviously, as much as I'd like to add extra coursework to my transcript over the summer, I'd rather actually learn and master the material taught in these classes, and am willing to put off these classes until later if that's what it will take. If you guys have any insights/experiences/thoughts about this dilemma, I'd love to hear it. From what you've seen and heard, is the material taught in summer courses simplified in any way and/or do students have a harder time grasping the content?

The part where he verbally demolishes the first-year graduate student in the bar is equally badass. "How you like them apples?"

Actually, I'm planning to enter the upper-div honors program at my school (writing papers, doing research, getting to know professors, etc). I'm slightly-concerned that the rigors and demands of the honors program will tax my GPA, so part of the reason I want to reduce my courseload is to compensate for the heightened demands of application season, research, honors-level work, and upper-div material. It's a very good point you make that I'll be compared to other students, and not necessarily on my own individual merits within a vacuum. I'll definitely keep that in mind from here on out.

That's a good point. In essence, I'd like some time to enjoy myself. From what I understand, graduate school is incredibly stressful and time-consuming, with virtually no real amount of free time to yourself (an old professor of mine said that, his first year of graduate school, Thanksgiving Break was a godsend to him, not because he could relax, but because he could finally catch up on his work). I feel like I should really take some time off to enjoy my freedom while I can, because, as much as I love learning about History, I know I'm going to be overwhelmed in a few years.

Yeah, for the Fall of my senior year, when I'm going to be writing up my applications, I've planned to take a courseload with more "fun" classes that'll let me relax and won't demand too much effort.

Yes. That's part of the reason I loaded up on classes so much in my first two years: so that I could gain "senior status" as a Junior and get to work on my Senior Thesis in the Winter of my Junior year, polish it over the summer, and have it ready by Fall of my fourth year. Also, for those of you who are recommending languages, I really appreciate the advice. I'll be taking Spanish as a Junior and will spend 6 weeks in Paris for Study Abroad learning French the summer between Junior and Senior year, so that should give me 2 languages by the time application-season rolls around.

Even with a 12-unit workload every quarter from here on out, after completing my History major, my Creative Writing minor, and my Foreign Language requirement, I'll still have room to squeeze in about three or four other upper-division classes. I've looked through the syllabus, and, outside of the history department, there's not much I haven't already taken that piques my interest (over the last 2 years, I've had the good fortune of ending up in classes that both relate to my interests and fulfill breadth requirements). However, if a class pops up and I find it appealing (say, for example, a Political Science course on the Arab Spring or Environmental Politics), I'll definitely use it to fill my open spots. I've taken coursework on Environmental Economics, Philosophy, Literature, Statistics, Computer Science, Dance, Media Studies, Anthropology, Psychology, Sociology, Geology, and Political Science, and these classes have essentially answered any burning curiosities/fascinations I have ever had. At this point, I'm not particularly interested or curious about anything that I can't have explained by reading the first 2 paragraphs of a Wikipedia article. That being said, do you think graduate programs will frown upon my decision to take fewer overall courses but more courses in history (again, note that even with this decision, I'll have plenty of room to plug in any courses I decide I'm interested in)?

Just wondering. I'm currently a second-year undergraduate at a college where 16-unit workloads are the norm, but I've loaded up on enough unit-credit that I can take a 12-unit workload for my last 2 years here and still graduate on time. I'll probably take more upper-division history than is actually required to graduate (I anticipate taking about 11 to 13 upper-division courses, 5 of them in my field of study, while the minimum is 9 upper-division courses with 4 in the field of specialization). My reasoning is that I'll be able to do better in each individual class with a lighter courseload, maximizing my GPA. However, my obvious concern is how much this reduced workload will look on an application to graduate school. Do schools really care? Will the fact that I took more History courses compensate for the fact that I'm taking fewer courses overall? What are the pros and cons of my decision? Would it behoove me to reconsider?

Matt Damon grew up living next to iconic historian and social critic Howard Zinn in Boston. Zinn served as a community leader in the area, and a grandfather-esque figure to Damon. Later, when Damon wrote the screenplay to Good Will Hunting, he included a shout-out to Howard Zinn in the dialogue. Thus, in the movie, when Damon's character chats with Robin Williams' character about a collection of books, Damon says something along the lines of "You want to read a fucking history book? Read Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States. That book will knock you on your ass."

Interesting. I've always understood the differences between the three to be rather prominent. Certainly, they worship the same entities and read from the same scripture, but their method of practice and (historically) their politics seem to be a major point of division between all three collectives.