Pitangus

If he spent extra time and effort with you and you are appreciative, then I don't see the problem with sending a thank you. I feel that gratitude shouldn't have to be a game; if you're thankful for something, then thank the person who did it. Just be genuine and not over the top and I'm sure he'll appreciate your graciousness. And if not, well, not to dwell on the rejection, but what's the worst that could happen at this point? He'll think it's strange for about two seconds and then forget. I personally don't think it's weird to thank someone after being rejected. Just because you didn't get accepted to a program doesn't mean you now hate everyone connected to it (hopefully, though it's interesting to read the results boards and see how many rejected people suddenly think the school is the worst place ever...)

Thanks wwellington! That sounds manageable. I've been told I'd be spending a lot of time in Nat Sci, so I've been basing distances on that so far. I'm currently looking at places in Lansing that are 25-45 minutes from campus on the bus, but that is according to the CATA website, so those times are assuming all buses are running on schedule. I wish I could be more efficient and bike, but I know I'd be overly cautious to the point where I could get hit or cause an accident simply because I'd be too passive when riding near cars. So driving will probably be the way I go if I find that the bus routes I need are not reliable. Despite many places being just out of reasonable walking distance for me, I'm still leaning towards Lansing because it also seems less expensive (not that East Lansing is at all expensive compared to many places). I've noticed that the rental prices look similar at first between the two, but upon further investigation I've found that many of the prices in Lansing include heat + water, while many in East Lansing do not.

That sounds like fun, too bad about the possible time conflict. I hope it works out for you! I applied for a few summer-long positions in case I would not be attending a grad program in the fall, but now that I know I will be moving about 15 hrs away I'd like to not rush myself with the preparations (especially when I need to do a major cleaning-out of my room at home before I go)! So I'm hoping to return to my previous field assistantship in April (it's a seasonal position that only runs for a couple months in fall and spring). I will have fellowship funding for the summer, so I'd like to visit my new advisor's field sites when the assistantship is over. I am planning on having at least 4 weeks to prepare (not counting now until April), since I will probably be moving in early August.

I'm considering Lansing proper as well. It's nicer than my home city (most places are), which is good enough for me. I like the convenience of the East Lansing places, but I'd rather avoid roaming undergrads as much as possible. I imagine I will end up driving or taking a bus to campus. While I know how to ride a bike, I've never used one for travel, so I don't know if I'd be comfortable not knowing the etiquette when riding on roads and all that. I walked everywhere during undergrad (small school close to my house), but I don't know how feasible that would be in this case. wwellington, where does the parking pass allow you to park? Is finding a spot somewhere reliable? When I visited, the student who picked me up talked about parking on the south side of campus, but most people I talked to said they tend to not drive. I don't mind having to walk a long way on campus as long as I know I'll have somewhere to park.

Yes, it seems that the departmental funding situation can interfere and potentially shut out well-qualified applicants, no matter how hard the applicants tried to connect with their lab(s) of choice. But I think you'll be in a good position if your POI is able and eager to take you. Especially if this POI has a grant and can create an RA position for you if the normal funding resources from the department (TA, fellowships) are not immediately available. Hope it works out for you.

I would send a personal message to anyone with whom you have sustained contact and who has expressed interest in having you join their lab (potential advisors, faculty sponsors if your program has them, etc.) I wouldn't think it necessary to write to all professors if you only spoke to them briefly during an interview weekend/visit, but then I'm in a field where I made contact with potential advisors before even applying, so anyone additional I talked to during a visit was often just social and they would probably have no idea who I was if I wrote to them now. Basically I would write to anyone who went out of his/her way to help/recruit me.

I'm not in psych, but speaking generally I am a very reserved person who attended a rather social visiting event. My faculty sponsor (and POI) arranged for me to meet with other faculty, and I didn't find out who until arriving at the event. These faculty were chosen as potential collaboration connections, though their research methods were unfamiliar to me and of course I did not have time to read up on their labs. The meetings ended up not being stressful at all because they seemed to be more of a show and tell by the faculty. They did first ask me about my experience and my interests for grad school, so I briefly described my senior thesis project and post-undergrad positions and explained how the interests I developed through those positions led me to my sponsor's current research projects. The rest of the time they described recent projects in their labs, and I felt I understood well enough to ask basic things like "Do you think <method/approach used in their lab> could be used to <explore some question related to the work done in my prospective lab>?" I think most professors want to talk about their research and many will do so without being asked. Just listen well and be engaged: ask them to elaborate on aspects that are unfamiliar or interest you, and if you can chime in with connections between their work and your experience/interests then all the better. I agree with watson that the point of the meeting is not to quiz you. I'd imagine only a few professors would make it their duty to test your knowledge and see how you react when put on the spot, and in my opinion, professors who would do that likely have personalities that would make some applicants not want to work with them anyways...

I used to dread asking for recommendation letters so I understand this thought. Really though, if you have a good relationship with a professor then s/he will want to see you succeed. Besides, once a professor recommends you the first time s/he will already have a letter that can be tweaked as needed and sent out again, so future letters will not require the same time commitment. One of my professors has recommended me for an undergrad fellowship program, REU programs, and now graduate programs. I also listed this professor as a reference when I was applying for post-bacc field assistantships. I have received plenty of (actually mostly) rejections throughout, but my professor is still always happy to hear from me and help me. Just be honest and share your plans. Once you hear from your post-bacc programs, thank him again for writing for you and let him know how much you appreciate his support as you work your way towards graduate school. That way when it comes time to ask for letters again he'll know your plans and be expecting the request.

3 schools: $185 for application fees (mostly Berkeley) $300 for GRE and subject test $6 for transcripts from a single transfer course (my main institution transcripts were free!) Total $491 All of my visit costs were covered by the department, which was very nice. I could have not applied to Berkeley, but there was a lab I really liked so I figured I'd take a shot. My application is probably off floating in a California breeze, oh well. I'm happy overall.

At my casual visit girls mostly wore dark denim with sweaters or blouses, and the guys wore khakis or denim with button-up shirts and sweaters. I don't remember any ties, unless they were under sweaters. One or two girls wore dressier slacks. No suits on anyone. Shoes were flats or tall boots for girls; I'm not good at describing male footwear so I'll say I saw mostly plain looking brown shoes. I'm glad I didn't wear anything very dressy because we did a lot of walking and mostly group mingling/socializing (as opposed to one-on-one interviews), so I think I would have felt uncomfortable in dress slacks and heels, which would have been my go-to for business casual. I don't think the rank of the program matters; if they specify casual then you should be fine with any clean, conservative outfit that would allow you to be comfortable regardless of the activities planned for your visit. You can always bring a pair of dressier slacks/shoes that match with your shirts just in case, which is what I did, but I never felt the need to wear them.

My favorite aspect of the results board is when people clearly reverse their GRE scores (not that it would be impossible for an engineer to score 800V 590Q, but somehow I doubt it happens as frequently as the results suggest). Makes me wonder how many of the less obvious scores are also reversed... I don't plan on posting my stats on the results board because I don't think GPA/GRE scores on their own are that useful in most cases, so I would hope that anyone in the future who is really curious will take the time to visit the forums (as I did when I was starting to think about applications). That way they can get more complete pictures of people's backgrounds from those willing to share.

May I also add Kneel and Disconnect... "Kneel and disconnect And waste another year Fill the application Start a new career" Sigh

I took a gap year to get more field experience in my area of interest. If this application season falls through I suppose I could pursue some more field assistantships because I get to travel to new places and experience new projects. Unfortunately most of these positions are seasonal (lasting ~ 3 months), so I have to constantly think about where I will apply next. I think I would benefit most from getting a more full-time research assistant/associate position so that I can improve my lab skills and maybe even get minor authorship on a paper if I join at the right time. But with the changes in the NSF funding procedures I don't know when or if labs will start offering these positions this year. And of course I've been told to consider "applying more broadly" if I end up applying to grad school again. I guess that means emailing even more potential advisors, and then re-emailing the ones who don't respond even though their program specifically states, "Applicants need to make contact with potential advisors beforehand in order to be considered for admission." Sigh. I don't mind writing essays/filling out applications. But I'm really not looking forward to spending more hours crafting thoughtful introduction emails to POIs when I know they quite likely won't read them. Don't get me wrong, I love EEB and it's the best feeling in the world to hear back from a POI, but the silences make the EEB application process so discouraging sometimes...

Thanks for the advice, though in my case there are no rotations and, prior to applying, I had to find a "faculty sponsor" who is taking new students. Fortunately my POI was willing to be my sponsor, so I will (most likely) be joining that lab if I am accepted. My funding questions then are more about the fellowships for which I have been nominated, but I'm thinking I should just wait until I hear if I received one or not and then start looking more closely at funding. I've thought about that as well, though as with everything else I've been taking a more lab-specific rather than general approach, so like: "What positions/opportunities have your former students pursued after completing their degrees here?" (some professors have this on their websites, but not all) I should probably consider having a general question or two ready as well though, since I'll probably talk to other faculty members at some point, even if it's not during official one-on-one interviews.

This is my concern as well for my upcoming visit. I've already had phone conversations with my POI and every time I've been asked if I have any questions, so it's hard to think of things that I don't already know from reading online or things that aren't frivolous-sounding. Right now my only remaining questions are really nitty-gritty things about funding and such that probably aren't the best for a pre-acceptance interview, or things that require the perspective of current graduate students rather than faculty. At this point I just want to visit, walk around the campus, and see the surrounding area, so that the prospect of actually getting accepted to, and attending, a graduate program becomes more "real" to me. And honestly I would like to just sit down for a presentation where some people in the department talk at me for awhile because maybe that will spark something I haven't thought about yet.

Hmm, unless one of my other posts was unclear, that wasn't me; I don't remember posting about thank yous or cards previously. I've contacted all of my POIs by email or phone because I'm in EEB, but that was before applications. I only have a few POIs anyways, unless I end up talking to other professors at my interview.

I thanked my POI at IU for staying in contact with me throughout the application season. I really appreciated that s/he explained this year's interview situation to me ahead of time so I won't be blindsided when the rejection comes. Plus I believe in leaving doors open; it never hurts to have good connections. So overall I don't think it's ever a bad idea to send a quick thank you email to someone who sent information or had a conversation with you. If a professor is too busy to spend a minute reading it, then s/he will just ignore it, oh well. But professors who do read will at least know their effort was appreciated. I would only send a handwritten note to someone who clearly went above and beyond to help (like if I was invited to meet him/her in person outside of an official interview), but that's just me.

I agree with the above. I made the assumption that your grad school interests stemmed from research experience, but if you have not been involved with a research project yet that should be your main priority. So to expand, the key for many ecology type programs is research experience + a potential advisor. Actually it's more like "research experience ----> potential advisor" because you need research experience to both determine the research you'd like to pursue and get a professor doing that sort of research to be interested in you.

Were these emails from potential advisors or just members of the ad comm? I've heard of potential advisors contacting applicants before making their recommendations to the ad comm (at programs where applicants join labs immediately and faculty recommendations therefore make acceptance likely) to get an idea of whether the applicant would actually attend if invited/accepted. A professor looking for new students obviously wants to recommend people who would seriously consider joining the program if accepted, else the professor be left empty handed unless s/he had the chance to go back to the applicant pool. Of course, most people don't apply to schools they wouldn't even consider, but it does seem that people with multiple invites sometimes decline some of their choices (either officially or just mentally) once they've heard from their top schools. This can even be a logistics thing if an applicant just doesn't have the time to attend many interviews. I suppose ad comms might do the same thing if they're trying to cut down on their invites for financial reasons or whatever. In any case I would take it as a good sign and just let them know you're still considering them if you are.

Hi Alani, Most of the ecology-type programs I looked at want at least two or three semesters of chemistry and two semesters of physics. Stats courses would be good to have even if it's not required. I personally think it would be better to take the courses at a community college than have to make them up during the beginning of the graduate program. If you have the opportunity to do a post-bac at a university, then this would be ideal, though I do not know much about these programs or how to find them. Of course, often one of the biggest factors in graduate admissions in ecology is finding an advisor/faculty sponsor. So I would start contacting faculty that interest you well ahead of time and get their take on your background. Getting someone to express interest in you during the application review process will be the most helpful thing of all.

More on IU: My POI informed me on Thursday that the lab will not be taking a new student. I had expected this based on information and conversations over the last year or so, but thought I might be able to get away with doing rotations during the first year... apparently due to unspecified concerns this year, applicants without an advisor lined up will likely be rejected without an interview. According to the results board, my rejection should be coming by mail next week. Good luck to the other IU EEB people; I hope you all were able to find advisors.

Your post quoted me in particular, which is why I responded. I was surprised that one interview specified "business casual to business" only because it was yet another example of the variation in specifications, even within this thread alone. I agree that you should dress up for a "business" event. I just wondered if there was some connection between type of department and the typical requested attire for their interviews.

I wore a suit to a job interview at a CPA office when I was in high school. If you're talking about a generic hypothetical job interview, then yes, the default should be to wear a suit. But I'm not convinced recruitment events for graduate school are necessarily the same as that hypothetical. From what I've read on these boards and elsewhere, fit is nearly everything in graduate admissions. To me, then, dressing to match the atmosphere of the recruitment event is another way of showing fit. So when the POI with whom I will be meeting specifically tells me the event is casual and I should not wear a suit, then that's the advice I'm going to follow. I just thought it was curious that some departments/programs stress business while others stress casual, which is why I wondered whether it had to do with how the department faculty dresses.

With some recent information I've pretty much lost all of my optimism. So, 1/3, if my interview goes well, 0/3 if it doesn't. I would bet money on this.

Heheh, thank you. I'll admit I tend to dress a little "nice casual" most of the time anyways (even in undergrad when everyone else was wearing sweatpants and Uggs), but I am really not a fan of blazers and twinsets and what typically qualifies as "business" for females... I am surprised some bio departments are asking for legit business attire; are the faculty really going to be dressed like that as well? I suppose the chem department at my undergrad always dressed a little businessy, so maybe it's a lab science thing, I don't know...