GradHooting

The following is a confusing late-night ramble of mine inspired by the first post in this thread. I am increasingly inspired by the successful people in my field in the world today. Of course, the top schools will have a higher proportion of people who end up with Wikipedia pages or positions in Forbes lists. Upon a cursory investigation through the crowds of successful people, one might easily feel discouraged to see such a disproportionate amount of people from top schools. However, it is dangerous to make the following fallacy: If A then B, if not A then not B. In other words: "If someone gets accepted to lots of great schools, they will become successful. If someone does not get accepted to lots of great schools, they will not become successful." This logic does not work, because we can easily find cases of "Not A, still B" However, our minds become twisted because the statistics encourage us to have a bit of a confirmation bias. If we see 60% of a sample of successful people coming from dream schools, we might find ourselves mitigating or discounting the other 40% who have not. Your reference to Steve Jobs is important. The sheer force of his personality, his ability to make friends (at his convenience) and his ability to convince people of his ideas (and his ruthlessness) led him to his success. Tons of successful people come from top schools because the top schools clamor to find as many potentially successful people as they can and have them as students. If you are rejected from lots of schools, all it says is that you are possibly one of the successful people the schools missed. Their limited slots forces them to narrow their scope to low-risk commonly-used metrics to determine future success. This has a massive amount of error, though, as shown by any sample of successful people you feel like picking. I try to take advice from some other other forum members here that they me gave last year: remain tenacious and demonstrate how much you want something.

I'm giving an update a year later. What a year! It has been laced with ups and downs. I left NASA with some completed projects under my belt. I could go into more detail regarding that, but it is a bit late, and will go into more detail if prompted. The better news: Applied to 8 schools, got into half of them, and accepted a fully funded aerospace engineering Masters + Ph.D. program in a top 10 engineering school! I'd say that I am fairly excited, but it is more a sense of calmness and a "I'll see how it goes" mentality. I wanted to post this because I started this thread in sheer frustration of the loads of dashed hopes. But, I'll be wading into a sea of challenges with the armor I've developed from dealing with constant rejections in the past. My new outlook on life has made me a tad bit relentless, but also a bit more tolerant towards rejections. In a sense, I feel more encouraged to challenge myself and keep aiming high, because I have enough experience with people turning me down that I can quickly find other ways to get to where I want to be. I am not exactly where I thought I would end up. I had saved up for years for graduate school, assuming no department would fund me. But, not only have I been accepted, I've been fully funded! That certainly came out of nowhere. This is far better than I thought it would be. Now, it's time to work my butt off and meet some amazing people in my field.

The lack of action on the recommenders part has driven me to screaming in my car. I've already been rejected from everywhere twice, and I had all my applications finished a month ahead of time, to give my recommenders the maximum time. I've had countless meetings in person with the last one, as well as emails, and they are already 2 weeks overdue for 3 schools, and 1 day overdue for 1 school. I am seeking therapy because, let me tell you, living in the Groundhog Day-style of life for the past two years has been mentally taxing. I used to be so much happier 3 years ago.

Haha, thanks! I have so much essay material to begin with. The proposal is done.

I was just ready to review the questions on the application website, and the website is down for me, as well. I know that I had to write three essays, and I was focusing so much on solidifying my proposal. Does anyone have the text for the other two essay requests? I know what the proposal is asking for, but I want to make sure that I have everything covered for the other two essays. Now that the website is down, I feel really dumb for not saving the information in the excel spreadsheet like I did for everything else :S

I am applying for aerospace programs, and am contacting different professors, regarding their research. However, if they do not respond back, would it be bad for me to mention specific professors? I get the hint that, if I have not communicated with them, then maybe I should not express interest in, specifically, their activities, in the essay. Could this possibly cause eyes to roll when they read the essay? Like, somewhat disingenuous?

So, I have taken the time to contact professors from all of my prospective schools, though most of them have not responded. Some have responded with a canned answer, while others seem to have a more promising response, regarding funding. When should I mention specific professors? Can mentioning specific professors actually *hurt* the application? Anecdotal evidence time! My friend got into his top choice schools (the top schools in his field) without ever mentioning a single professor or lab. He did mention the topics he was interested in, however. With most of these universities, I really have not managed to get any sort of decent correspondence with the professors. Additionally, while my plan is to pursue a Ph.D., it does not necessarily mean that I intend to pursue a Ph.D. at that school. What should I even mention in the application, for that? Just say that I am interested in a Master's degree? Or, does my intent to pursue a Ph.D. increase the likelihood of getting into a Master's program? I am asking because I am almost done with all of my applications, and plan on submitting them this week. I want to make sure that I have my bases covered. So far, over the last two years, I have been rejected from everywhere, so I am a bit paranoid.

I am curious, as well. I have a semester of W's on my transcripts and I have been rejected twice from every university I have applied to in my field. I am wondering if it is because of the semester of W's, or because of something else. I have the 3.5+, 800/630/5.5, numerical stats, teaching and research experience, and so on. I will keep my eye on this thread, because I keep wondering whether those W's harmed me. I had to leave due to a death in the family, then I transferred.

Well, I tried getting in contact, but they are just too busy, too busy to even write a complete sentence in reply to my emails. So, I stopped trying to arrange a visit, this time around. I am honestly not feeling that confident about applications, despite the NASA experience. Getting rejected from everywhere twice has seriously twisted and skewed my outlook on graduate school with a terrible negative bias. I am still pushing through with applications, but, egads, it is hard.

Any takers? None of my previous reviewers have replied to my PM's...

Or, just anyone who has a good grasp of what is expected in an SoP! That works, too.

2 pages is too much? That's actually the first time I have heard this. Most of the admissions websites I see say 1.5-2 pages or so. I may have to cut back a lot. I'm at roughly 1100 words.

Hey, it's me again. I read a book and perused some examples, and spent a while devising a statement of purpose. Could someone familiar with engineering requirements review it? I'd be grateful. Thanks! Just send me a PM.

The way I will be tackling the diversity statement will be relating to how many different colleges I've been a student at, and seeing a large variety of different students, with different educational needs (as a tutor). I suppose that tackles social diversity, in a way. Economic-wise, I'm just a white middle class dude, so I can't see that helping much.

I visited a certain school twice, got rejected from that school twice. On the second time visiting, one of the professors thought I would be a good fit for their research team. Now, I live in the area, right next to the school, coincidentally doing something related to their field. But, it was suggested to me by one of the students of that school that the professors very well might be tired of seeing me, at this point, and that I should not bother visiting, this time. But, they do admit that that was speculation on their part. Should I even bother visiting again, or corresponding again? Would visiting a third time actually bring harm to my chances at that school? It should be noted that each time I visited, I substantially improved from the previous year. The third time would be yet another substantial improvement.

I guess I will just give a lot more attention to my statement of purpose. Regarding recommenders, I will need to find some people who can attest to me being more than just "really good." Maybe, something with specific examples that are more vivid. Perhaps, I will have to be more up front when asking them what they can say. I have about a month to network and get everything squared away, though I have been practicing with my statement of purpose for a few months, now.

My anxiety just gets compounded every year I get rejected from everywhere. One psychologist fears that it is causing bipolar symptoms to emerge.

This was posted in the applications thread, but, after two months and a few bumps, it got no reply. I'm seriously concerned about this, since I am in a bit of a complicated situation, and I do not fit into any standard box that people are used to. The problem is, the very nature of grad school applications attempts to standardize people where 90% or so fit into those categories. I've been to three universities and two community colleges, two internships after college, etc etc. It's a mess, and I've no idea how to keep the admissions committees from freaking out at the complication, because I am almost certain that it is the reason why I have been rejected from everywhere after two application rounds. So, I've had about two years sprinkled with sleepless nights over this. I'm tired of asking "what are my chances" and getting rejected from everywhere I apply. I need to ask myself: What school would be best for me? If I get admitted in Fall '13, I'll have a full year of experience as an intern at NASA, a summer internship at Northrop Grumman, a year of research experience in a physics lab at U of Colorado (papers still being worked on, they haven't been submitted yet, that part's out of my control), teaching experience as a tutor and lab assistant for a year, and a few smaller things. I currently live in the bay area, and I love it here. I'd love to continue living around here, but I fear that there might be a lack of schools with good aerospace programs that would keep me competitive to employers and to investors (in the distant future, what a vain thing, a grad school name can be... I'm speaking from experience with small business owners on this aspect, many investors seem to be blind to alma maters that aren't dazzling in their namesake) GRE: 800/630/5.5 GPA: 3.57 (maintaining a 4.0 taking graduate math and physics courses at a different university) I've been mulling over what the schools didn't like in my application, and I think, despite everything else, it's boiling down to GPA. Over and over, it's something that I cannot go back and time and change, it seems. Not only that, but, after the first year of undergrad, I withdrew mid-semester on my second semester, due to a death of a family member and the ensuing chaos that resulted from it. So, my transcripts are from numerous schools, littered with a less than stellar GPA, and a semester of W's. I am, in no way, shape, or form, fitting into any sort of nice package that seems appealing to graduate schools. On top of that, with my crazy transcripts, I'm paranoid that I'm setting off a myriad of trip wires in their auto-filtration systems. I just don't know what to do from here, but I feel that I'm just tainted, and should just be happy that I managed to get out of undergraduate school unscathed, and just find a job somewhere. I'd really *love* to continue to a great grad school, but I cannot go back in time and fix things, and it's blowing my mind trying to figure out how I can explain all the weirdness. In this economy, with grad programs filled to the brim with students who struggle to find employment, and have few slots available, I get the feeling that they're being risk-averse, and there are more than enough students out there who are a nice, clean, low risk package to accept. I suppose I'm just worried. Everyone who's worked with me thinks I'd be a fine candidate for grad school, even at a top program, but those are just words. The evidence is showing me otherwise. Any thoughts?

I'm going to post this in another thread. It's been two months with nary a reply, and time's running out.

Another bump. I'm thinking that going to three different universities and two community colleges is going to scare off most admissions committees. I would love to somehow wrap this up in a way that sounds more appealing. Not everyone has the best family and living situations that permits a contiguous 100% student time at one university. I mean, could it also have been a completely bland statement of purpose? It's hard to stand out, these days.

Hi, As the years pass by with getting rejected, repeatedly, by every institution I apply to, my undergraduate professors become more distant, remembering my performance as a student less and less. Thus, I feel more inclined to look elsewhere for letters of recommendation. I am still keeping in contact with them, but, my performance and growth as an individual makes me such a vastly stronger candidate now than who I was as an undergraduate, where I had very little idea as to what I want to do, and what graduate schools wanted. For instance, I took several graduate-level physics and math courses and maintained a 4.0 at another, more recent university, but was not getting a degree. Additionally, I get the feeling that my professional environment might have strong academic ties which are relevant to where I want to study, because where I work is NASA, which is a research-based institution. What are your thoughts? What defines "Academic" for letters of recommendation? I am applying for a Master's degree, and am "leaving the door open" for a Ph.D. at schools that are heavily research-oriented.

Bump. Any ideas? I've laid it all out, I'm hoping someone can have some perspective.

So, I've had about two years sprinkled with sleepless nights over this. I'm tired of asking "what are my chances" and getting rejected from everywhere I apply. I need to ask myself: What school would be best for me? If I get admitted in Fall '13, I'll have a full year of experience as an intern at NASA, a summer internship at Northrop Grumman, a year of research experience in a physics lab at U of Colorado (papers still being worked on, they haven't been submitted yet, that part's out of my control), teaching experience as a tutor and lab assistant for a year, and a few smaller things. I currently live in the bay area, and I love it here. I'd love to continue living around here, but I fear that there might be a lack of schools with good aerospace programs that would keep me competitive to employers and to investors (in the distant future, what a vain thing, a grad school name can be... I'm speaking from experience with small business owners on this aspect, many investors seem to be blind to alma maters that aren't dazzling in their namesake) GRE: 800/630/5.5 GPA: 3.57 (maintaining a 4.0 taking graduate math and physics courses at a different university) I've been mulling over what the schools didn't like in my application, and I think, despite everything else, it's boiling down to GPA. Over and over, it's something that I cannot go back and time and change, it seems. Not only that, but, after the first year of undergrad, I withdrew mid-semester on my second semester, due to a death of a family member and the ensuing chaos that resulted from it. So, my transcripts are from numerous schools, littered with a less than stellar GPA, and a semester of W's. I am, in no way, shape, or form, fitting into any sort of nice package that seems appealing to graduate schools. On top of that, with my crazy transcripts, I'm paranoid that I'm setting off a myriad of trip wires in their auto-filtration systems. I just don't know what to do from here, but I feel that I'm just tainted, and should just be happy that I managed to get out of undergraduate school unscathed, and just find a job somewhere. I'd really *love* to continue to a great grad school, but I cannot go back in time and fix things, and it's blowing my mind trying to figure out how I can explain all the weirdness. In this economy, with grad programs filled to the brim with students who struggle to find employment, and have few slots available, I get the feeling that they're being risk-averse, and there are more than enough students out there who are a nice, clean, low risk package to accept. I suppose I'm just worried. Everyone who's worked with me thinks I'd be a fine candidate for grad school, even at a top program, but those are just words. The evidence is showing me otherwise. Any thoughts?

*edits* The word "Contingent" does not appear in the web document that I accepted and signed. It was just in the email that I was given announcing that I received the internship. I think they were actually referring to "You can accept this internship, but we'll only start it for you if you pass the necessary preliminary checks, such as obtaining a green card/social security and tax ID number/etc" Because that's what is mentioned with "contingent" as well. I don't think they mean "It can expire before the promised dates." It just means "You might not get the internship approved until these things are sorted out." The document that I signed is completely devoid of anything saying contingent, and emphasizes that the dates cannot be changed. "Once an offer is accepted, dates cannot be changed." <-- that's the only thing mentioning dates in the thing I signed.

... ok? So, I'm screwed? I'd love more help here. That's just worrying me.