soaps

I don't see one. Now I regret checking! Where did you get this info?

Apologies, I meant MPP/MPA-ID. It looks like MPA2 was the second day last year, and MC-MPA the third. And sorry, didn't see the PhD in the results search earlier this month.

A PhD applicant posted in the results database. I'm guessing tomorrow's the day for MPP/MPA2. Terrified.

^ It's all a language game. One philosophy degree later and I'm still satisfied with that conclusion. Unrelatedly, what do you guys think you'll do if you don't get in? I'll probably take a long walk and end up at the dive-iest bar I can find.

I did three full-time unpaid government internships and one at a think tank that ended up hiring me. All of that I considered legwork to get an entry-level position and it required a ton of networking and "putting myself out there," so to speak. But even where I worked, it was becoming more and more common for entry-level positions to be filled by people with master's degrees even though they had a program specifically designed to hire undergrads. The ones with masters usually always came from the same mid-tier public policy programs, whereas many junior staff would end up going to top MPP/MPA programs and top MBA/JD programs after leaving. I think this happens because a lot of people use a master's in lieu of internship/work experience and then go on to do those internships while studying to get their master's in DC (rather than as an undergrad). What it really comes down to isn't your degree, though, but those internships. Nailing a job afterward depends on how you sell yourself during elevator chats, happy hours, and interviews. It takes a bit of ego and maybe even arrogance (I certainly had an excess of it... thankfully not anymore), both of which are found in great supply in DC.

The experience threshold at HKS, even for an MPP, is higher than any law school with the exception of those that emphasize soft factors like Stanford. I think it is far more likely that HKS students have more diverse, interesting life experiences than the average HLS student. I wouldn't say the same for business programs. I never said the top MBA programs don't provide immense value to their graduates, but your MBA slant shows that you're evaluating HKS using an HBS framework. It's as though you don't really consider public service a legitimate career path, and I would agree that public policy schools aren't necessary if all it took were a BA to succeed in the public sector. That's really what you don't understand: a graduate degree is absolutely necessary, and an MBA or JD won't get you more money than an MPP to be a management generalist at any and all levels of federal government. Where you went to school also does matter if you have to bid for posts or want section 102 appointments. Even among the most meritocratic agencies like the State Dept., the few FSOs who only have BAs have to go back mid-career to get one and have usually advanced less rapidly. For the federal government and international NGOs and IGOs, a public policy degree (and the reputation of the program) matters more. Brand and networking aren't unique to an MBA. Career paths in public service for those who really want to "advance" to the highest levels of government are horizontal, not vertical, which requires a network to get you from one office to the next. Bidding in the State Dept. similarly relies on your network and the school you went to. I know brand and networking might be comparatively more important in business, but it's as though you've never stepped foot in Washington. My point was that the curriculum has no intrinsic value; it's the brand name and networking that matter. That's deeply flawed reading on your part. I never said they don't covet MBAs from top programs. If you apply to a strategy consulting firm with an MPP, you're doing it wrong. If you are looking for a career in business, why are you in this forum? Those "low paying jobs in the public sector" require graduate degrees, and not everyone finds them as unappealing as you do. The debt is a huge consideration, but many public policy programs will put you in debt and yet most management positions in government, or doing "inherently political work," will require a graduate degree. That's the world we live in. You've consistently proven you have no interest in (and little knowledge of) the public sector, and all you do is evaluate public policy programs with an MBA framework. It's not helpful; it's highly misleading. HKS has a good--no, great--public sector track record. You consider that "track" in and of itself a defect, so I'd suggest taking the MBA angst elsewhere.

What exactly is shocking about those employment figures? The first link goes to a home security website; the second provides numbers in public/private/NGO sectors. What is terrible about it? It shows substantial employment prospects in every sector. MPAs also (generally) have more experience than MPP applicants, so it shouldn't be surprising their earning potential is higher.

HKS also isn't as easy to get into as it was in 2004, and public policy schools have seemingly increased in value and relevance in a post-Bush, post-financial crisis, Obama era. It's as hard to get into the MPP program at HKS as many T14 law schools according to their 2010 acceptance rate. Not to mention, some of the same criticisms in this article can be launched at business schools in terms of the qualitative, intrinsic value of an MBA... it's purely a brand name you're paying for. The most valuable companies in the world were started by college dropouts, and the market is oversaturated with MBAs and JDs. The career advice the guy quipped about--going to law school--is rather laughable today unless you are at a place like HLS. The alumni of HKS are pretty damn extraordinary, so I'm skeptical that the school imparts no value to its graduates. Some of you are stuck in a pre-2008 mindset and are forming false impressions, I think. You may also be forgetting that not having a graduate degree is a barrier to entry for many public sector jobs, so despite the egregious cost, it puts you in a much better place than just having a BA.

The HKS curriculum seems very much geared to teach the philosophy, theory, history, and ethics of government. That article is from 1989, so maybe things have changed.

No blog update yet.

Which program?

No... you get an hourly rate. http://www.hks.harvard.edu/degrees/teaching-courses/catf

Yes, that's the overall rate with the MPA and MC/MPA. The most recent data on the MPP I've found was 19%, and that was in 2009 or 2010. Since HKS keeps getting more applicants each year, I can only assume it has gone down since then.

Huh? HKS isn't 7%. That is lower than both HLS and HBS. The MPP at HKS went below 20% just three years ago, so it's probably somewhere around 15-18% now. Anyone have fresh admissions statistics?

I wish they'd just give us the first date we're likely to hear anything, regardless of the program, so that the intervening days aren't fraught with so much anxiety.

From today's admissions blog: "In advance of the release of admission decisions later this month..." Doesn't sound like we'll be hearing anything this week.

This thread is more toxic every time I visit it. No one here wants to absorb all this vitriol and internet ego bruising on top of the anxiety of the waiting process. In this thread and others, some of you seem like you have a personal vendetta against anyone who thinks they should go to HKS (with or without funding). Your comments aren't always helpful but they are always condescending. I think about funding constantly, but none of you are saying anything that hasn't already been said in the last week alone. The horse is dead and thoroughly beaten.

This was discussed at length in the WWS thread.

Where was I trolled or tricked? I called it immediately. I wouldn't be surprised if it was you on an alt account.

And yet you still haven't posted to the Goldman thread.

Yes. I'd be happy to eat my words once I see others who've been on this forum report something.

They'd announce on the blog the day they release decisions for each program, just like last year. The blog post today indicates they haven't even finalized the decisions letters, ranked applicants, or finished meetings. Also, why would they send anything outside regular business hours? Just doesn't add up.

At 7:49 AM EST on a Monday? Not likely. Definitely a troll.

Thanks for that, Ethical Realist! Makes me want to go to HKS even more.

It's probably best not to trust anecdotal evidence from a stranger over the internet. There's no way to establish this guy is even at HKS, much less HBS. Let's move along. No one has even provided recent admissions data from HKS and the admissions data you find is woefully out-of-date. If you want to go into the private sector or if you're insecure about an MPA, get an MBA. Leave HKS for people genuinely interested in public service. To people who can't help but mention the superiority of HBS/HLS in this thread, please get your kicks elsewhere.