soaps

Definitely on the level of HKS and WWS? In terms of what? SAIS, SFS, SIPA, and Fletcher are more-or-less interchangeable and I don't think any will confer a measurable benefit over any other--you choose the one that best suits your interests/values--but Pton and Harvard both have a brand name and alumni network that are unbeatable across all sectors. SAIS has a great brand name... for the public sector. Outside the public sector, I think some of you are really stretching the awareness and versatility of SAIS, especially since the statistics don't back it up. If anything, I think SFS has the better reputation in DC since it's more selective, smaller, and Gtown is a more versatile/well-known brand name. The prestige calculus is stupid, though. Quality-wise it's hard to say any of these programs are better than any other. We all have biases and individual interests/goals and the public sector reputation is all that should matter--that's where SAIS excels.

I don't think SAIS is in the same league as HKS and WWS, nor is SFS. SAIS and SFS both have great reputations in foreign policy circles, but their appeal to the private sector is (in my view) a complete myth that accompanies the "rigorous quant curriculum" marketing strategy that all public policy schools use. Private sector placement will have much more to do with the city you're in, I think, which explains why schools outside DC have a higher median private sector salary while both SAIS and SFS excel in median public sector salaries.

... I know about the LSAT, thanks. By "trying for" I meant taking the LSAT and applying to Columbia Law as a dual-degree student. My feeling was that it would basically render the MIA useless, but the fact that it even exists as a category makes me wonder what people are doing/accomplishing with it.

Sorry, I misread your post (it's late). I didn't see the dual MIA/MBA part which is why I was confused you were talking about attorneys and banks. I trust you're at SIPA and know what you're talking about. It'd be interesting to know whether the MSFS includes dual-degree students in their private sector placements as well since they don't specify anything about it. By the way, not to derail the SAIS thread, but there don't seem to be nearly as many dual JD/MIA students at SIPA. What has been your experience? It's something I've considered trying for in my first year if I go.

I'm not dissing SAIS at all. Not sure why you got that impression.

It's not more meaningful than public policy grads either. There are top law school and top business school grads who switched careers just to join the Foreign Service, for example, and that was just at the tiny embassy I was at. My PA/PD officer went to Oxford for law, the first political officer went to a top business school. Money isn't everything. Many public service careers lead to more enriching/interesting lives and lifestyles. Both of them had families and were very happy people, and both miserable in their prior career choices. And interestingly enough, their boss (the DCM) went into the FS straight from a state school. This is one reason (among many others) I love the Foreign Service. Life and the satisfaction you take from it aren't a stupid prestige calculus.

I don't think this is true. The banking positions they report are mostly analysts. Those are not positions for attorneys, much less Columbia Law graduates, much less dual-degree Columbia Law graduates. There's only one attorney position listed in their MPA statistics, and that person may have already had a law degree. There are zero listed for the MIA. No matter what you think about SIPA, no Columbia Law graduate is going to become an analyst at Morgan Stanley or even Goldman. Entry-level paralegal positions are "analyst" positions at banks.

Culturally SFS seems more in-line with what you expect from other GTown students and GTown residents. Georgetown in general is culturally a little disconnected from the rest of DC and physically disconnected on a transportational level (no subway access). The stereotype (which shouldn't necessarily be trusted) is preppy/privileged. SAIS students are thought to be in Baltimore even though they're not. I don't know that they have any particular cultural reputation in DC outside foreign policy circles. @riverguide, GTown may be more foreign service oriented but I think SAIS has the larger foreign service footprint, same with SIPA. SFS is tiny so that shouldn't be surprising.

Hey there! We should all definitely hang. I'm not sure I'll be at the open house since I might be headed back to India for a few months, but I may decide to delay my trip depending on what exactly that day entails. In any case, I'll be back in August for anyone who's moving here around that time.

Whoops, I forgot the most important question re: the bars! Avoid anything on Broadway around Columbia, but there are some great dives in/around Morningside Heights. Probably the most well-known is 1020 bar on Amsterdam, although on weekends you'll get an inordinate number of undergrads. For regular/weekday drunks like myself, there's a good amount of local color and grad students there. There are some other good bars in the area including some surprisingly good jazz joints (Showman's cafe), but overall I think you'll be spending your social/drinking life south of 59th. It's the best city in the world for functioning alcoholics, and you'll find bars everywhere suiting every possible taste and price range.

Discussing rent in NYC is like discussing the weather, so of course I don't mind. Right now I'm on the cheaper end of things for Morningside Heights: $900 a month and $45 for all utilities, and my room is tiny. That said, I'm ideally located so the price is a bit distorted. The area is much more yuppy-ish compared to (true) Harlem and Manhattan Valley to the south and prices reflect that. Generally rooms in close proximity to Columbia start around $1100 here unsubsidized, but I'd say the average might be more around $1200. You probably won't be living in the immediate vicinity of Columbia unless you get subsidized housing, though. People in Manhattan will say you live in Harlem if you're north of 96th no matter which side of the city you live on because of Spanish Harlem on the Upper East. Harlem on the west side is different, and neither side is particularly scary (it's the north-central area of Harlem that's the sketchiest). North of Columbia starting around the 130s in Manhattanville you'll get equally expensive but probably larger accommodations ranging between $900-$1100 a month, or cheaper/sketchier accommodations ranging from $750-900. I'd be really skeptical of anything below $800, actually, but it's possible (and probably ill-advised). It's generally advisable to remain west of Morningside Park or Frederick Douglas/8th Ave on the west side but that area is amorphous and there are some awesome bars and cultural things there. Below Columbia between 96th and 110th you can find good housing in the same price ranges, but between 94th and 106th east of Amsterdam (and west of CPW) are the projects and can be pretty (but not absurdly) sketchy. It's also a deadzone for bars and nearby things to do, although there's a new shopping development (including Whole Foods) around 97th on Columbus. Keep in mind, all these prices reflect having one or more roommates (probably at least 2). Studios even in Harlem start at $14-1600/mo for the least space/least desirable areas. Also, even though it's super pricey by any standard, you at least aren't paying the same transportation costs as you do elsewhere. Do not bring a car to NYC. Overall, Manhattan is very safe and so is any area around Columbia. You can also choose to live in parts of Brooklyn on the periphery of Williamsburg, Astoria (Queens), or Sunnyside (also Queens) for even cheaper accommodations and plenty of culture. From my initial research, subsidized/owned/affiliated housing by Columbia is a great price for the area, but still way more expensive than what you can find elsewhere. Hope that's helpful!

Hey there, I'm also an accepted/potential SIPA student. I actually already live a block away from Columbia in Morningside Heights and have been in NYC the last few years. Glad to answer any non-university apartment/living related questions.

SAIS does publish which firms hire students, just not how many and not their specific positions/titles. It's confusing that, on top of wanting to use SAIS as a stepping stone to some high-paying private sector job, you think it's particularly good for private sector placement compared to other PP/IA schools. If anything its statistics indicate the opposite. For example, SIPA's median salary for the MIA for private sector is $72,500 compared to SAIS at $65,000. For the MPA at SIPA it jumps to $80,000. SAIS fares slightly better than both the MPA and MIA for public sector salaries, although that could be because it parses out multilateral orgs. from its public sector category. I think this discrepancy can mainly be attributed to SIPA being in NYC, but who knows? SIPA has much better placement in finance/banking, so that would make sense. But it's a lovely irony that SAIS seems to fare better for public sector salaries and that's precisely what you don't care about.

I think he meant U of O had a better reputation than PSU, not UW. UW obviously has the best reputation in the PNW. UW is an awesome school for what it's worth. Culturally and politically Seattle is a very unique place to be.

Well, on the plus side, the letter diagnoses specifically what might be holding you back if you want to reapply. I delayed even applying to grad. programs until I had the time to take some econ classes, which I only did last fall. If you got that letter, I'm sure it means you're well qualified except for that one area.

I did today! Rejected, haha. It was totally expected, though, so I'm not really disappointed. The MPhil is about as competitive as most doctoral programs (around 5-6% acceptance if I'm not mistaken). I also found out I attached the wrong version of my resume to my application. Are you saying you're at CFR now or want to be? I'm a CFR alum but have since taken a non-linear path (to say the least). It's a great place to work depending on the department, though, and super accommodating toward students for programs that allow you to attend part-time (SIPA obviously not being one). If you mean post-grad. school, I don't think SFS would make you stand out any more than SIPA, especially since HQ (as well as Foreign Affairs and cfr.org) are in NYC and the connection to SIPA is probably stronger. In general I think both SFS and SIPA grads could aspire to greater heights than an entry-level position at CFR, but Foreign Affairs has a higher experience threshold (not to mention an amazing reputation) so it'd be awesome to work there. For the broader organization, though, CFR has a pretty solid commitment to recent college grads because of their professional development program. Most other think tanks hire a bunch more people with MAs, especially when the economy tanked, so it's a credit to CFR that it's not filled with overqualified junior staff with master's degrees.

Thanks! I'm pretty confident I can get funding my second year so long as the quant. courses don't trip me up. I'm lucky to have no undergrad debt because I attended a state school, which was a deliberate choice knowing I would likely accrue grad. school debt. I've been asking my professors and former colleagues/supervisors who've gone to SIPA and they've all had great things to say. Have any of you been invited to the Google group the admissions page mentions, by the way?

Didn't see this but this deserves a "congrats" as well. I'm surprised you'd consider GTown over Columbia if journalism is your thing, though. Isn't Columbia the most well-regarded journalism school?

Although it's poor consolation, HKS is even worse. I think SIPA is trying to correct this problem, though. SIPA completely separated from GSAS only a few years ago I think, which means its funds/endowment are no longer pooled. It also started the new loan forgiveness program that, while its eligibility is strict (10 years full-time, consecutive public service), is something. For those like me who plan to spend around that much time in government service, it's not insignificant. Bollinger has really emphasized the importance of SIPA for Columbia's future global brand, and he also wants a new SIPA building/campus in the next 10 years or so (although that's not helping any of us). It could all be hot air but overall I think the value of a SIPA degree will increase over the years if the current administration's vision has anything to do with it. Also, isn't average debt for SIPA students comparable to other programs? I thought it was around $65,000, with 29% looking at $100,000 or more in debt, and 15% with no debt. That seems pretty standard for public policy programs but I could be wrong. If you guys hadn't read this yet, this is an interesting (if slightly frivolous) look at SIPA life: http://www.themorningsidepost.com/2010/09/07/this-will-be-your-life-at-sipa/

The greatest thing about the west coast (aside from the superior natural beauty) is that it's generally rude to ask where you went to school, how much money you make, etc. Like you said, people are genuinely more interested in what you're passionate about, what your hobbies are, and so on. I understand what you mean about that side of things being competitive as well. I'm not sure how many mountains my techy friends over there have to summit before they become cool, but it must be a lot. Unfortunately the west coast is a deadzone for what I'm interested in. Maybe after a few tours in the foreign service I can head back out that way and have a family. What are you doing in SF now, out of curiosity?

The key to effective trolling is to elicit angry responses with minimal effort. Revolution puts in a lot of effort for people just to end up calling him a troll and laughing.

The city attracts a bunch of political science students who are just as arrogant as the undergrads going off to big banks/companies elsewhere. None of them are more intelligent than any other... they're/we're all dumb and inexperienced at that age. Do you really think being a fresh analyst at Goldman Sachs requires more than spreadsheet drudgery? It's not that hard to price a stock/commodity/whatever. SF is a completely different ball game, as is the entire west coast, and it's not hard to get a job in SF if you're in the right industry and have the right personality. It's much more meritocratic, and no one cares about your pedigree. It's a matter of what you chose to study and how creative you are. Who wants to work in Boston? I say that half in jest but also because you're unusually fixated with Boston when everyone I know who lives there (especially Harvard students) think it's not a real city. Beautiful and quaint, yes, but how crazy can the HBS lifestyle be when the bars and subways close at 1AM? With apologies to any Bostonians... And even former staff assistants can go on to HBS, by the way. I know one who's going there now.

I had a friend in DC who was interning at the same think tank I was. He was in the MSFS program, and he would constantly talk about how "elite" he was in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way. He'd go on and on about MSFS parties and how we (the other interns) should go to them and not be intimidated by his elite crew. Even while he was half-joking, it was also tinged with genuine narcissism which isn't uncommon in DC. This guy basically had the same internship as me as an MSFS student--what on Earth was he bragging about? There's nothing intelligent or "genius" about it. He had no meaningful job experience and glided along on ego alone as many young men (and probably women) do. It's amusing but it's based on nothing--although usually bolstered by privilege--and it disappears in most guys by their 30s. I was the same way only a few years ago, but then my first job completely killed my self-esteem. Anyway, it's a common story. You'll have research assistants who think they're smarter than the fellows they work for but who spend most of their time on facebook. It's even worse--far worse--if you work on the Hill and encounter interns wearing their red badges of courage. Staff assistants are no better. I have no doubt that every program will have a large chunk of students who are this way. I can't imagine how MBA programs are... I wouldn't encourage that level of arrogance and egotism. Guys like that need to be taken down a peg.

Wow, a drag party? How outrageous! That is just "out there"! Those HBS people really live on the edge. They have costume parties too, folks. The jetsetting sounds vapid and irresponsible, with people taking out loans to not "miss out." I've been around the world, lived on the ground, been stranded with nomadic shepherds in Kashmir, lost in the Himalayas, and have had an equal number of experiences with extraordinary people both rich and devastatingly poor, and trust me when I say: I'm not jealous of someone who drops several thousand for a week's trip to Saudi Arabia or Costa Rica. That sounds ridiculously stupid. The fact that you're impressed by that stuff speaks volumes about your immaturity and inexperience. Next you'll be bragging about all the coke HBS students do. They live outside Boston--what exactly am I supposed to be jealous of in terms of partying and lifestyle?

I think that goes without saying, but like I said, these forums often distort reality and manipulate your emotions and motivations. I had done that research the first year I considered applying and developed a great impression of SIPA, but like everyone here, we want a more subjective/anecdotal impression of these schools. It's only in the last several months I've realized how little those impressions matter.