soaps

I've been researching SIPA more the last couple days, and I think these forums really give SIPA a bum rap it doesn't deserve. I was thoroughly convinced I wouldn't go to the point where I didn't even bother applying for fellowships, but I'm finding that even in terms of financial aid, SIPA is more generous than people here make it out to be. I think 2009-2010 were bad years for employment statistics, but the closest schools in terms of quality (GTown, SAIS) either don't publish complete employment data or fare worse in terms of salaries, or their employment data is incredibly vague (Fletcher). GTown SFS doesn't give average salaries, which is rather telling. Anyway, I think employment prospects in 2011-12 were vastly improved at SIPA. A SIPA MPA student can expect to earn more than either SAIS or Fletcher grads (again, no info. from GTown). The average MIA salary is also higher than SAIS for the private sector (although SIPA doesn't parse out "multilateral" from its public sector statistics). And SIPA is the only school to publish specific employment data (organization plus title/position) out of the four. SIPA is also the most competitive out of Fletcher/SAIS for both the MPA and MIA according to Peterson's despite having the largest class. Even though Columbia's career services are notoriously bad, the other resources at SIPA and the quality of faculty are pretty enormous (in fact, there's little to distinguish it from HKS in that regard). And speaking from experience, the route between the UN, CFR, and SIPA is a well-traveled path for visiting leaders/scholars. They aren't visiting Tufts. Anyway, I'm pretty pissed I didn't bother applying for fellowships just based on a woefully inaccurate impression these forums have given me over the years. Its financial aid is better than HKS, its employment data is better than SAIS, Fletcher, and maybe GTown, and its resources are both vast and unique compared to other schools. In short, don't trust the self-serving, self-perpetuating impressions you get on TheGradCafe. It's remarkable how much these forums can distort reality. Several years ago SIPA was my dream school because I loved NYC so much, and then coming to TheGradCafe altered that impression to where I almost didn't apply to SIPA (I did the 2/5 deadline this year). Now I can say confidently that, in a variety of ways, people here often don't know what the hell they're talking about.

I think you're right about SIPA and NYC. I don't believe anyone who says SAIS has a huge Wall Street footprint, for example... no one I know who works at the big finance firms has even heard of SAIS. Then again, I'm sure SIPA doesn't have a huge footprint there either. Being in NYC, though, you encounter opportunities you never would have expected. As someone with just a BA, I almost took an investor relations position at a top hedge fund known to seek out smart people with non-linear backgrounds. I didn't need a SIPA degree for that, though--I just needed to be in NYC. I'm also a writer and find my connections here incredibly valuable, and the cultural/creative energies here are inspiring. In short, I think the opportunities here are tremendous for self-starter types. I hated DC because the city judges you purely on your institutional affiliations and pedigree and is a farce when it comes to genuine cultural/artistic interest. Anyway, I might be trying to convince myself to go to SIPA with all this as well, but NYC is the biggest factor for me.

I think it depends what you want to do. I don't have the luxury of choosing between HKS and SIPA, but $20,000 over two years isn't insignificant. I think, between all the top programs, the benefits of one school over the other (within public service) are pretty marginal. Is that marginal difference worth $20,000 for Harvard? Maybe if you want to broaden your career prospects, as HKS has better private sector placement. HKS definitely has the better brand name of the two, but (as others have pointed out) SIPA seems to be devoting more resources to the school in recent years including a new loan forgiveness program. Harvard's program isn't actually loan forgiveness. SIPA also has a combo of tuition assistance/stipend/salary for TAships compared with Harvard giving TAs a basic wage. Also, if each city factors into your consideration, I think New York offers a lot more for the money than Boston. $10,000 almost pays your rent in NYC for a year (if you're living in Harlem, at least). Are any of these degrees with the money? That's a harder question. Good luck deciding!

For anyone who's funded, what is your financial package like?

I'm sure he'd tell us the MBA students are far more beautiful than the SIPA students--there's not even a comparison! On top of that, SIPA students are routinely excluded from the far swankier MBA parties.

Thank for the input! And I definitely agree with the "beautiful people" thing as far as it concerns Columbia (and New York). Morningside Heights in particular sometimes seems like it's populated by professional models. Not a trivial consideration for those of us with epicurean instincts.

Having been an undergrad there, what is SIPA's reputation in your experience and what's your plan now that you've been accepted to SAIS and SIPA? I thought I wouldn't care about getting into SIPA and that I'd try again next year for HKS and maybe even WWS, but now that I'm actually accepted I feel tempted. I hated every moment of the application process and don't want to do it all again, and I love living in NYC (in fact, I live one block from the Columbia campus). It's a tougher call than I expected it to be.

Yeah I think Columbia in general has that reputation since that is a common complaint from undergrads as well. I think it's partly the nature of institutions in NYC, and partly the propensity of New Yorkers to complain about everything.

I'm sure Columbia does this for top students it's trying to lure into the program. I didn't cast as wide a net, but SIPA was the same as HKS for me. Larger programs with more applicants probably can't give the same level of personalized attention.

It's not customary for admissions people to have direct contact with you unless you contact them, so I'm not sure what you're complaining about. SIPA responded to all my e-mails the same as every other school.

Yes, e-mail to check website with a new link toward the bottom that directs you to a separate page.

Accepted for the MIA with no funding. Will likely wait another year. Congrats/best of luck to everyone else!

That is precisely why you'd benefit from a few years experience, as it would greatly improve your logic.

Fair enough. That's just my anecdotal personal experience (the plural of anecdote isn't data etc.). I think it's a fine choice if you're funded, and I do know people who've used GWU degrees very successfully. That said, I still think the average GWU student does tend to be rather inexperienced given that GWU really doesn't have an experience threshold for entry, but there are top students at every school that go on to do amazing things. It has more to do with their personal drive and ambition than the school itself, no matter what school you attend. For me personally, the only school I think might be worth paying out-of-pocket for is HKS, but I agree that not having a graduate degree is a barrier to entry no matter what. It's tough.

You got in because it's not particularly competitive. That's pretty much the bottom line, and no one I know who has gone there thinks it's worth the sticker price. Literally every GWU grad I met was in an internship that is usually filled by an undergrad, and every other one I met was in an entry-level position usually meant for people with no graduate degree. I think DC is oversaturated with GWU/American grads, and they aren't particularly experienced and so hog up a lot of entry-level positions. I'm sorry to put it bluntly, but it'd suck to take up that much debt just for you to realize that this is the GWU reputation in DC. I think if you're funded to go there, you can do reasonably well with a GWU degree, so I'd suggest getting relevant work experience.

I wouldn't be applying to SIPA if it weren't in NYC, which is where I've been the last few years and where I want to stay. Being here isn't a trivial consideration for professional/career options. I definitely would not put Goldman above SIPA for that reason alone, no matter what the student experience there is like. Quality wise I also don't think there's anything that puts Goldman over the top either, and I feel like there is always heavy east coast school bias no matter what. If you get funding, though, I can definitely understand going for Goldman over SIPA.

They addressed the "not submitted" thing in a blog post. Doesn't have to do with them uploading decisions... it's just a design fluke they can't fix: http://blogs.cuit.columbia.edu/sipa/2012/12/24/rehash-an-oldie-but-goodie-whats-my-status/

And so very, very inaccurate.

You have disparaged every school in every school-specific thread, and by implication everyone who attends them. This is just from the last hour alone: "SIPA is a cash cow for columbia that gives basically no aid and gets the full price from rich internationals who are not smart enough to get into a top grad program but wants the columbia ivy league pedigree." You say the same kind of stuff consistently in every thread.

He is often corrected on factual grounds, and I spend my time doing that not to "retaliate" but so that others (both on this forum now and in the future when applicants are looking at these threads) aren't misled by his posts.

I respond and correct many of your factually inaccurate statements (usually with no response from you), and regardless, you go on singing the same MBA tune no matter what. There's a reason you have the worst reputation on this subforum. You deserve to be called out, and everyone is tired of every discussion devolving into MBA school comparisons and the prestige-driven calculus that doesn't motivate most people interested in public policy. There have even been current students at top MBA programs who have contradicted what you have said in the HKS thread and you just ignore them. You are not qualified to evaluate the usefulness of public policy programs if you think the "public" in public policy is a fundamental defect. Your posts are misleading (not to mention dispiriting), and in the first place, no one here suffers the same delusion that an MPA will get them a six figure salary. If they do, they are applying to the wrong type of school. The fact is that you don't respect anyone here because you do not respect public policy as a legitimate career path. For you it's some kind of backup and--in your grand scheme--some kind of backdoor that MBA students have told you repeatedly does not exist. You ignore them, and you go on disrespecting everyone here by devaluing the very nature of what they're trying to accomplish. I owe you nothing in return.

That's because Revolution can't get into a top MBA program and so he takes out his frustration on people applying public policy schools so that they feel as value-less as he does. He's a broken record and de-rails every thread he touches. He also thinks (naively) that going to a top PP school can be used as a backdoor to top MBA programs. He has zero interest in or knowledge of the public sector and as such is the worst qualified to tell anyone about the value of public policy programs.

... anyone at every public policy school ever is playing second fiddle to the top MBA programs for private sector jobs. For the public sector, your pay grade isn't determined by what school you went to or what type of graduate degree you have. Why on Earth are you on this forum? If you aren't good enough to get into a top MBA program, public policy schools aren't going to help you.

It provides more aid than HKS does. It seems average in terms of aid overall. Guaranteed funding for maintaining above a 3.5 the second year, a new (actual) loan forgiveness program, and (just based on the aid application) more private merit scholarships that aren't ridiculously competitive fellowships.

I think the rankings are a mix of perceptions/prestige and the quality of the programs, which is why WWS and HKS are included. I do think both have very robust IR options, though, and given the resources both schools offer and the quality/stature of their IR-focused faculty, they offer a better branded and useful degree for IR or non-IR purposes. I really don't think SAIS, SFS, and SIPA are that qualitatively different nor will they yield much difference career-wise, but SAIS has a better reputation and footprint with the foreign service and SIPA has the biggest New York (and thus multilateral) footprint. Fletcher suffers from not being in New York or DC. I would have applied to SFS but I hate DC and love NYC.