jamc8383

I kind of can't believe this conversation is still happening.

Agree to disagree.

Still, there are so many ways to maximize your "chances" that the lottery metaphor is problematic. IMO, at least. I know we're all prepared to accept varying degrees of "luck" inherent in the admissions process, but, for me, the idea that it's more-or-less a crap-shoot really demeans the amount of work that I put into my application package. It's erroneous to think that everyone that's "equally qualified" has also been equally successful (or worked equally as long and hard) at communicating those qualifications to adcomms. I'm not trying to be combative. Again, just my take.

Eeee…this is a wee bit reductionist. I will readily concede that there are some elements in the admissions process that are subjective and beyond our control (basically everything after we hit "send"). But a lottery implies that everyone that buys a ticket (i.e.: pays the application fee) has an equal chance. I assure you, that is not the case with grad school applications.

This is easily avoidable. Contact your POIs. Be brief; ask specific questions (rather than emailing them a wandering inquiry with questions that could easily be answered by a cursory review of the program's website--they hate that!) and they're likely to answer. I got responses from everyone that I contacted. No joke. One historian told me that he was leaving the university--and the country--next semester and another very thoughtfully explained why he wouldn't be accepting students in the fall. The rest responded with varying degrees of enthusiasm, but at least I was able to confirm that they would be accepting students. Decisions were made accordingly, more POIs were contacted, and so on. In the event that it might be helpful, you can feel free to PM me for the (slightly-redacted) text of the email that I used to contact POIs. Best of luck!

Interesting. Within my discipline, UChicago is kind of notorious for its cutthroat graduate dynamics and is frequently referred to as "the place where fun goes to die." Though, I met a grad student from their Asian Studies program at a UCLA conference and she had feedback similar to yours. Hopefully the uncongeniality of the graduate environment is being exaggerated; UChicago is definitely in my top three as well. UMich is probably my #1 though.

Indeed.

Heh? Oh, jesus. Sorry. Keep in mind, I'm applying to History Phd programs and, for our discipline, fit is crucial because interests among scholars are so broad (Antiquity, precolonial African culture, twentieth-century France, it goes on, and between military, political/diplomatic, social, intellectual and cultural history approaches, the permutations in terms of time, place and methodology are nearly infinite). As such, it's important for us to demonstrate that the programs to which we're applying have the resources and faculty to reasonably support our projects. I confess that I am completely ignorant as to the complexities of philosophical study and the number of approaches one might take (and consequently, the affect this might have on concentrations of the applicant pool around certain universities or certain professors). I try not to interject my opinion if I think there might be a disciplinary disparity in terms of application procedures or the weight that certain elements of the application package carry with adcomms (Note: I stayed out of the WS discussion, although it turns out that Philosophy and History are pretty lockstep in terms of its importance ). Sincerely didn't mean to rattle your cage. Although…isn't questioning what you're doing part of philosophy? Eh?

I'll let you know where I stand on this in March.

People don't "luck" into phD programs.

Bingo. For many, bachelor's programs function more-or-less as disciplinary "surveys," which in many cases (and, I won't speak to yours philstudent, as your experience may have been entirely dissimilar) do not prepare a student for study at the graduate level. Before switching to the Humanities, I did an undergraduate business degree (at a very reputable university) and even two years out I would have been hard pressed to solve a financial equation or create a passable accounting ledger. So it goes. The level of instruction was so superficial. And, again, I think the state of affairs of both the Humanities and the economy have a not-insignificant affect here. Programs have less funding to go around. In some ways, students coming in with an MA are safer bets. They've proven they can do graduate-level work and they generally have a better sense of direction (in terms of their own research interests and preferred methodological approaches) so they won't be hanging around longer trying to "figure it out." To be clear, I'm not putting a value judgment on this; it is what it is. For my circumstances I HAD to do an MA; I just wouldn't have been a competitive Phd candidate otherwise. This was not something I was in a position to pay out of pocket, especially considering that I had to take a drastic cut in work hours (and wages!), so I cobbled together funding through government loans (unsubsidized, god help me) and a number of scholarships, fellowships and travel grants that I picked up along the way. It's possible to make it work financially, but I agree completely, it should be WAAAAYYY more accessible.

This is a compelling argument. Many universities are doing across-the-board cuts in the Humanities and/or suspending admissions to phD programs in these fields. Definitely a factor. No question. Another issue, of course, is degree inflation. As recently as the turn of the 21st century, a bachelor's degree would pretty much guarantee you unfettered access to gainful employment. Now? Not so. Now that nearly everyone is armed with the BA/BS it has become the baseline for even obtaining an interview. It's no longer an advantage, so much as it's a requirement. Which means that for people to set themselves apart, to make themselves competitive (in what is, yes, a relatively bad economy) graduate study becomes the recourse. Granted, it's likely more of an issue for people in the STEM fields but, at the very least, it certainly impacts folks in the Humanities that want to go into teaching. MAs applying to teach community college are getting edged out by Phd's who can't find employment in four year universities and BAs interested in teaching at the high school level are now made to compete with those boasting an MA. Scary.

It probably differs. I know that Yale, for example, keeps GRE scores in a "holding" file for two years, but there's nothing to suggest that this is standard practice across the board. Your best bet is to contact the graduate departments individually.

I guess I mean't "how" not in terms of strategy but in terms of mental endurance. Still, I'm impressed. Good luck to all!

I agree. The 5-8 range seems reasonable. I did six. There were six programs whose focus and faculty I felt could really support my project (in History, full disclosure). I can't imagine there are 25 programs that are ideal fits for anyone's proposed research aims. Forget about recommenders, I can't imagine revising my SOP 25 times in order to argue credibly that each of the programs provided for a reasonable (let alone compelling!) fit with my experience and goals. Revising the SOP six times to convince programs that we were made for one another was excruciating enough. 20?! 25?! MattDest, how did you do it?

My MA advisor just got an email from one of my POI's (also a member of the adcomm at school X, to which I'm applying) asking if I was "serious" about her program. Ie: Is school X just a "safety?" Since, apparently, the adcomm is not waitlisting this year, if they offer admission to people who don't accept, they essentially lose an admit. My advisor had to craft an email that tread the line between "of course, she's very interested in your program" and "but, acceptance depends on a lot of factors (and I can't commit her, more-or-less)" I don't know if this bode's well or not, but I can say that these are exactly the kind of bizarre intricacies of the admission process that terrify me. On another note: how is everyone biding their time? I'm reworking two articles and starting reading for comprehensive exams in the spring. Trying not to be so monomaniacal with this application business but, admittedly, FAILING hard. Others?

The "results search" function of TGC is very helpful in this respect. Sort for your discipline and you can see the date ranges in which people were getting admissions decisions for each of your programs last year. I would presume universities will hold to roughly the same schedule for this admissions cycle. Why not, right? For instance, for the universities to which I'm applying (History Phd programs), all acceptances went out between January 24th and February 21st. Ohio State sent out acceptances between January 24th and January 29th, Princeton, between February 7th and February 8th, and so on. I don't know that this range would necessarily be consistent for Philosophy programs (or for the schools to which you've applied, in particular), but the methodology should hold. Might as well take a look at the data from last year, at least you can plan when to panic, instead of existing in a heightened state of anxiety for the next month and a half Hope that helps.

I completely agree that "fit" has a big role to play in admissions decisions. Why would a school admit a candidate if they don't have the faculty resources to support their project? However, I am inclined to disagree that a 75-page writing sample will "make you seem credible." Graduate school is about demonstrating an ability to make a concise, well-reasoned argument (when journals accept your research for publication, they routinely limit you to 6,000 to 8,000 words, including bibliography!). Granted, Emory doesn't specify a page limit, but (as levoyous points out) it's unlikely that they'll read more than 25 pages, which could be problematic since they will only be getting a small portion of the overall picture (and it might not be the portion you would've chosen to highlight). Will they even be getting to the meat of your primary source analysis? Will they get a sense of your methodologies and how you are applying theory in the reading of your sources? To what extent will you have demonstrated a capacity to engage with the historiography? That's the benefit of a smaller sample; you have more control over what they read. You essentially get to "package" your research. To a certain degree, you have given up this control. I don't know that an outsized writing sample, in and of itself, will militate against your chances for admission, but neither do I think that it will be in your favor.

I confess, I am unclear on the thrust of your project. That being said, I'm inclined to direct you here: http://www.princeton.edu/~refdesk/primary2.html. Hope that helps.

It has been my experience that there are varying degrees of flexibility regarding LOR deadlines. Princeton gives recommenders two weeks beyond the December 15th application deadline to get letters in. UChicago stated very emphatically (on their website) that for an application to be considered "on time" all supplementary materials (including LORs) would have to be submitted by December 10th. I would say, check the program websites or contact the graduate studies departments.

I actually came to history with an undergraduate degree in business. This type of transition is hardly unheard of. History is becoming more and more interdisciplinary (some of my recent projects have incorporated sociological and musicological theory), so your background could prove to be an advantage. That being said, you would have to demonstrate an ability to think historically, that is, to ask historical questions and to show that you understand the work of historians. I think, as telkanuru has suggested, doing reading in your field of interest (transnationalism is sooo hot right now ) is a good first step. I would also encourage you to meet with history faculty at your university. I successfully made the transition under the guidance of a knowledgeable graduate coordinator within the field. Such an advisor could also help you develop a reading list that would include some of the more canonical works in historiography. Hope that helps! Good luck.

UChicago apps are due today and I have one recommender who has yet to submit her letter. I know that many universities have a "grace period" for LORs, but UChicago's website states explicitly that for the application to be considered "on time," all supplementary materials, including LORs must be submitted by the December 10th deadline (and to reinforce the point, they suggest that you take this into consideration when choosing whom to ask for recommendations). I don't even have time to worry about my exam in three hours because I am FREAKING OUT about this. I sent an automatic reminder to her on Sunday and a very polite email yesterday evening, with no response to either. She has already submitted three LORs on my behalf (for programs whose applications deadlines were Dec 1st), so I don't understand what the hold-up could be. Do you think I will be significantly penalized in the application process if she doesn't come through by the deadline?

American History R_Escobar (20th century, American Indian), crazedandinfused (antebellum, intellectual), hopin'-n-prayin' (southern, religious), stevemcn (transnational), Simple Twist of Fate (early American), zb642 (20th century, labor/working-class culture), BCEmory08 (19th-20th century Catholicism, labor), irvinchiva10 (20th century, immigration/immigration reform) natsteel (early American political culture and intellectual history) unforth (19th century US political and military history, US Civil War) hbeels (colonial, early national, 19th century, transappalachain west, historical memory of these eras/areas) thedig13 (20th century U.S., culture and protest, African-American) Weepsie (North American Mapping, Exploration and Trade, Anti-Communism/Socialism in Interwar period, bit of a mixed bag) lafayette (19th c. [with a dash of 20th], urban, intellectual) vtstevie (Revolutionary/Early Republic New England, infrastructure/economic) macmc (Feminist, gender, and LGBT history) European History Kelkel (Modern Germany, political), goldielocks (Britain), SapperDaddy (Eastern and Central Europe), kotov (Modern Romania, Holocaust, labor), RevolutionBlues (Modern Western Europe/France labor and leftist politics), theregalrenegade (18th/19th cent British Empire/environment), jrah822 (19th century Britain; emphasis on colonial relationship to India), grlu0701 (Intellectual & cultural history,fin de siecle Germany and Italy), naturalog (modern European [mostly German] intellectual and cultural/sexuality and gender/political radicalism), runaway (Eastern/Central, memorialization & visual culture), Sequi001 (Modern France, gender and sexuality, colonialism/imperialism) Abetheh (19th/early 20th century Germany and France, religious politics vs secularization) NeutralKate (Modern Russia, modern European economic history) Crackerjacktiming (Modern Germany, gender and sexuality) GloFish (USSR, Stalinism, Soviet-American Relations) jamc8383 (19th/20th century France, interwar culture, relationship between body, mind & place) African History Oseirus (precolonial/early colonial West Africa), Singwaya18 (20th century East Africa), Safferz (20th century Horn/Northeast Africa), The People's Scholar (Spanish colonialim in Africa- i.e. middle/West Africa) Jogatoronto (Psychiatry in early colonial West Africa) ronwill06(Social and political radical movements) Latin American History CageFree (20th century, Southern Cone), BH-history, The People's Scholar (18th-19th century Colombia) StrangeLight (20th century Central America) East Asian History alleykat (Modern China) kyjin (Pre-Modern Japan) aec09g (Modern Japan) pudewen (Late Imperial China) kdavid (Modern China; focus on the Republican period) Near/Middle Eastern History uhohlemonster, (modern Israel, Iran, Palestine) oswic (modern Egypt, gender) Atlantic World sandyvanb crazedandinfused Global/World History cooperstreet (Cold War) melissarose8585 Jewish History uhohlemonster, (modern Israel) hopin'-n-'prayin, kotov (Holocaust), naturalog (sometimes modern European/Holocaust), runaway (memorialization & visual culture), ticklemepink (20th c. Germany/U.S) Science/Technology/Environment shaxmaty1848 (Cold War) StrangeLight (environmental history, ecological distribution conflicts) Social annieca (Cold War and Post-Cold War East and Central Europe) Classical and Medieval Hogs of War (Monastic Studies and Conflicts in Authority) Cultural StrangeLight (gender, race, ethnicity, and religion) hbeels (race/ethnicity, religious, masculinity/feminimity, print/literature) crazedandinfused (race, nationalism, performance, rhetoric) alleykat (religion, race/ethnicity, cultural relativism) Canadian History truthfinder (New France, religious)

Most schools provide you with a system for tracking the status of your application which likewise provides an opportunity for you to update contact information. I don't know if this is the case for all programs. If not, you can always email graduate admissions departments when you know your new address and request that they update their records. I'm sure this sort of thing is not unprecedented. You will be notified by email of admissions decisions and then, typically, more info--usually regarding funding or admitted students visits--will be sent out via snail mail. Others can chime in here is their experiences were different.

I couldn't speculate. It's probably fine; arguably, you're taking your chances either way. Interestingly, there's a discussion about this now in the Rhetoric and Composition forum: Make of it what you will. Good luck!