Michigan State for a J.D./Ph.D. in Philosophy

[OneTrueBoo]

Hello! I'm quite new to this forum but after reading some other threads I thought this might be a great place to get the information I'm after. 

First a bit of backstory: I've been admitted to Michigan State's law school and I am interested pursuing graduate work in philosophy alongside that degree. I'm not a philosophy major (just a minor) so I would have to go through the master's program before starting on the Ph.D. I'm interested in MSU's program because their faculty seems to be very much focused on social and political philosophy, along with philosophy of law, which are areas of the discipline that I love working with. I've combed over the philosophy department's and the law school's website but I still have a few lingering questions.

Here are my biggest questions: How hard is it to gain admittance to the master's/Ph.D. program? I meet all of the M.A.'s numbers requirements in the graduate handbook on their website but I haven't been able to find any admissions statistics. Also, what is the MSU philosophy department's reputation? And how easy would it be to gain admittance to the Ph.D. program from the master's? 

Any help would be greatly appreciated! I'm deciding between a couple of law schools and the ability to pursue a philosophy degree at MSU is a big draw for me over the other options that I have. 

[Pythian]

Hi @cjm720 ! I am a recent graduate of MSU's philosophy department. I can't say anything about how difficult it would be to get into the MA or PhD program, but I can answer any questions you have about faculty or the department in general.

Seeing that you are going to law school, I am guessing that you want to practice law. If this is the case, I wouldn't worry too much about school reputation as it probably won't play that big of a role in your career. What matters is getting a good education, and MSU can provide that.

Feel free to DM me if you any specific questions!

[Bookchin]

On 2/26/2018 at 6:28 PM, cjm720 said:

Hello! I'm quite new to this forum but after reading some other threads I thought this might be a great place to get the information I'm after. 

First a bit of backstory: I've been admitted to Michigan State's law school and I am interested pursuing graduate work in philosophy alongside that degree. I'm not a philosophy major (just a minor) so I would have to go through the master's program before starting on the Ph.D. I'm interested in MSU's program because their faculty seems to be very much focused on social and political philosophy, along with philosophy of law, which are areas of the discipline that I love working with. I've combed over the philosophy department's and the law school's website but I still have a few lingering questions.

Here are my biggest questions: How hard is it to gain admittance to the master's/Ph.D. program? I meet all of the M.A.'s numbers requirements in the graduate handbook on their website but I haven't been able to find any admissions statistics. Also, what is the MSU philosophy department's reputation? And how easy would it be to gain admittance to the Ph.D. program from the master's? 

Any help would be greatly appreciated! I'm deciding between a couple of law schools and the ability to pursue a philosophy degree at MSU is a big draw for me over the other options that I have. 

Hi! I am so excited to read your post. I have just been accepted to Michigan State's PhD Philosophy program, and I am applying to the law school right now! I hope to gain acceptance at the law school to custom-craft my JD/PhD Phil program. One really great thing about MSU Law is their flexibility. So, I hope we can mutually support one another! I welcome all tips on writing the law school personal statement! (The philosophy statement of purpose is an entirely different animal than the law school pos.)

I'm not sure of the odds for acceptance into MSU's philosophy MA program. The overall acceptance rate for philosophy PhD programs is about 2% (it's a near-miracle that I was accepted!). Don't let this discourage you from pursuing it, though. Your training in law will make you a better philosopher and thus a better applicant, whether at MSU or elsewhere. And MSU's philosophy dept is AWESOME. Full stop. I encourage you to reach out to them! I'll be visiting on March 15-18, during which time I'll check out the law school. If you have any questions you'd like me to ask them about the MA, let me know. I'll try to get some idea of what your odds are for the MA, and whether they are likely to advance you to the PhD from there.

Please don't hesitate to reach out - if you want to text, message me here and I'll give you my #. We need to stick together as philoso-law people!  

[OneTrueBoo]

7 hours ago, Bookchin said:

Hi! I am so excited to read your post. I have just been accepted to Michigan State's PhD Philosophy program, and I am applying to the law school right now! I hope to gain acceptance at the law school to custom-craft my JD/PhD Phil program. One really great thing about MSU Law is their flexibility. So, I hope we can mutually support one another! I welcome all tips on writing the law school personal statement! (The philosophy statement of purpose is an entirely different animal than the law school pos.)

I'm not sure of the odds for acceptance into MSU's philosophy MA program. The overall acceptance rate for philosophy PhD programs is about 2% (it's a near-miracle that I was accepted!). Don't let this discourage you from pursuing it, though. Your training in law will make you a better philosopher and thus a better applicant, whether at MSU or elsewhere. And MSU's philosophy dept is AWESOME. Full stop. I encourage you to reach out to them! I'll be visiting on March 15-18, during which time I'll check out the law school. If you have any questions you'd like me to ask them about the MA, let me know. I'll try to get some idea of what your odds are for the MA, and whether they are likely to advance you to the PhD from there.

Please don't hesitate to reach out - if you want to text, message me here and I'll give you my #. We need to stick together as philoso-law people!  

Hi and thanks so much for your response! I'm going up on March 9 and 10 for an admitted students day to get a feel for the campus. I come from a very small private LAC so MSU would be a huge change in scenery for me, but I'm excited about the possibility. As far as admission to the master's goes, I assume they would probably be inclined to admit people who are already MSU grad/law students, but who knows. I'm comfortably above their GPA requirement and I can get LORs from at least two relatively well-known members of my school's philosophy faculty, so I've got my fingers crossed. I've scoured the law school's dual degree information and can't find anyone to contact, so maybe going through admissions would be the next best thing? Or maybe even the philosophy department itself? I'll be applying in my 1L year so I should be able to get info about the workings of the dual degree process as time goes on. 

In terms of law school admissions, since you managed to get into the Ph.D. program you'd more than likely be a shoe-in for the law school, as long as your LSAT score is in the ballpark of their range. I think a 157 is their 75th percentile, which is a bit low among the top-100 law schools, so it shouldn't be too hard for someone of your caliber to manage. The principle thing to worry about is cost, which can be astronomical without good scholarships. I'm above their 75th percentile in LSAT but was only able to negotiate them up to a $102k merit scholarship (about 80% of tuition, and that was even with using a full-tuition offer from a higher-ranked school as a bargaining chip), so I'll still be taking about $60k worth of loans, barring any more need or merit-based grants. But then again they may look upon you favorably since you're already in the PhD program and give you a great offer. It's also best to apply as early as possible, because schools have more scholarship money to give out than later in the cycle. You can look at their ABA 509 report to get a feel for what numbers you should aim for and how much money they give out. 

When it comes to writing a personal statement, I think the main strategy people use is writing a story about an experience that inspired them to pursue a law degree. I wrote about a spring break service trip to Detroit that I went on in my sophomore year of undergrad and how that inspired me to get involved in service organizations and to try and make a positive impact on the world through law. I hope the application process goes well for you! I'm more than happy to chat via pm or text if you'd like.