Hopelessly torn: Ace Advisor vs Happiness?

[Vaudevillain]

I'm spectacularly torn between two schools' Ecology and Evolutionary Biology programs. School A, the University of AZ Tucson, I haven't actually gotten into yet; but was waitlisted- according to the PoI I have a good shot of getting accepted; but if I do it'll be closer to the deadline and I need to know whether I'd accept an offer from School A or B if I hear back from them at the eleventh hour. School B, the University of MN Twin Cities, I've been accepted to. I've gone back and forth on which one I think I like more and it's been nearly impossible to decide. I ask your help in knowing what to prioritize. 

Arizona: An intermittently top 10 school. Not a lot of funding, as it's in a conservative state, so I wouldn't be able to get much from the school. Smaller stipend (18k) without guaranteed summer support, but is in an area with a cheap cost of living so some grads just live off that the entire year or find their own funding. I'd have to TA most of my time here since there's not much RA funding, though since I want to teach this isn't a huge downside- problem is the undergrads are a little notorious for being frustratingly unengaged, though some are diamonds in the rough. A good school in a place I could do year-round field research. My potential adviser is a fantastic fit- senior faculty with a good track record of getting people into good postdocs and even tenure-track faculty positions (which is where I want to end up), a wonderful mentor, is one of the people who pioneered the subfield i'm studying- a BIG name in ecology. She knows everyone in my field; everyone knows and likes her. The best people join her lab- upwards of 60% of her students get NSF GRFPs. She doesn't fund her students herself; but helps them find and apply for funding. Her research is a great fit for me since it's conceptually focused on the subfield I want to study; and flexible on the system I use so long as I'm able to find people who are experts (if it's not in her area). I might have to go outside the schools to find people who know how to study the systems I'm interested in. Being in her lab would probably be the best for my career; as it would likely open some serious doors for me. She's the reason I applied. 

I like the area the school is in- beautiful natural environment and lots to do outdoors all year round. Culturally the fit of the city it's in is fine- enough to do; liberal; nothing mind-blowing but totally workable. But I don't really feel like the culture of the department is a good fit. There's not much community among grad students; and people didn't seem particularly excited, friendly, or enthusiastic about what they do. I was really weirded out by how ...low-key? everyone seemed; being a very gregarious and excitable person myself. It seems like it would be pretty lonely here for me and that if I wanted any sort of community I'd have to work really hard to build it myself. Even among the other prospective interviewees I had some uncomfortable experiences and was sort of put off by the attitude some of them had. 

Overall, I think my career and research could be the most successful here under my mentor, but I'd have to work really hard to be happy here, and the funding isn't ideal. 

 

Minnesota, on the other hand, feels like an amazing cultural fit. I loved the city and its culture, I loved the department and its culture (it seems like most of the faculty actually take into heart and encourage a work-life balance in the students and want the grads to be happy and not just work machines). The graduate students seem well-balanced and hardworking, overall happy, friendly, and enthusiastic, and happy in the program, and I really liked them and felt like I'd fit well with them and the other folks I interviewed with. I disliked the winter weather and surrounding landscape in the city but could tolerate it, as it's a really cool place with a big queer community and a ton of things to do. Its department is absolutely loaded, and has plenty of funding for summer support and other ventures like RA-ing in addition to being a TA. I was offered a diversity fellowship for nearly 32k my first year and a solid shot at full support during my final year of research, and guaranteed support through a combination of RA-ing and TA-ing the rest of the years. There's a lot of faculty I could collaborate with for potential projects as they're experts in some of the systems I'm interested in; though they don't have a super strong focus on the conceptual aspects of the work I want to do like the Arizona PI's lab did. It's a top 5 program and a well-respected school in my field. The undergrads are usually a lot more engaged and excited than at Arizona, meaning teaching would be a lot more enjoyable. It also has fantastic healthcare and a lot of other resources within the department for career development in academia. 

I like the lab and the adviser I'd be working with; he's very nice and we get along well and he's really supportive and willing to let me go in whatever research direction I want as long as it's feasible, though his area of expertise is in a different direction than the Arizona PoI. My biggest concern is that he doesn't seem to push his students very hard in regards to doing things that will help them be successful after they graduate (i.e. publishing early and often as they go, finding an empty research niche, etc). He's a great writer and editor but his lab hasn't been super productive since he's mostly been working on a very long-term big project instead of churning out more papers with grads, which is important for me if I want to build a portfolio of publications to apply to postdocs/faculty positions. I worry that while I think I'd still be successful in his lab and he'd be very supportive and kind, I'd have to be the one to push for what I need to be able to successfully get a job after grad school. While I'm very assertive and no stranger to management of a hands-off adviser, I ultimately don't feel that I know what I need enough to be able to do this with someone who's "a little bit too nice" (in the words of a current student of his).

Overall, the funding is spectacular and I know I'd be happiest at this school, but my research and career might not be the best they could be like if I went to Arizona.  

 

I've agonized over these two schools (which are both great options and I know I'll be fine at either but still, it feels like an impossible choice) and have gone back and forth several times, deciding definitively "this is my top choice" before second-guessing myself and changing my mind. PLEASE HELP! Do I prioritize being happy, well-funded, and well-balanced at grad school at the cost of a big name and great mentoring? Or being mentored by someone who could probably make me the best I could be at my career path, but be pretty lonely, broke, and stressed while doing it? I just don't know at this point, and worry that if I choose Arizona I'll regret not choosing Minnesota if I'm sad and miserable there, and if I choose Minnesota I'll regret not choosing Arizona if I can't land a decent postdoc or job upon graduation. And hey, maybe I won't even get into Arizona and won't have to decide, but I just need to have this mapped out before then so I can make a decision if I do. 

Sorry for the monologue- any help is appreciated!

Edited March 14, 2018 by Vaudevillain

[eevee]

Since you seem like a really driven person who knows what you want, I think you should accept the offer at Minnesota. You know you'll be happy there, and I think you've correctly identified things that students can do during grad school to help them be successful after graduation. Since you say your potential advisor is very supportive of any direction you want to go, maybe propose some shorter-term projects that you're interested in and through which you might be able to write a couple papers. I'm sure no advisor would discourage a student meeting with them and laying out their plan to publish and apply for external funding, as it helps both you and the lab. Advocate for yourself! At any rate, I don't think you should count on other people to push you. He may be "a bit too nice," but I think that's workable as long as you keep your goals in mind and update them as to how they're progressing and ask for his advice and support in them. 

[rising_star]

FWIW, years ago I was in a somewhat similar situation. I went with the best PI, even though it meant I left a bunch of funding on the table (I had better offers from other schools). I did end up having to TA more, which can be a time suck if you let it. But, looking back, I'm pretty sure I made the right decision. Working with that PI opened doors for me that wouldn't have been open otherwise. And there's something to be said for having a supportive PI who will help you become the best scientist, researcher, and professor you can be. 

That said, right now, this isn't really the choice you need to make. You're on the wait list at one school and accepted at the other. I think it makes the most sense to settle on Minnesota (I see other schools in your signature but you don't mention them in your post), sit on that for a week or two, and really reflect on how that makes you feel. Yes, cold winters suck but they're survivable. Also, have you talked to your PI at Minnesota about their willingness to work with you to do more publications or grants? Is there a mentor in the department you could seek out for those things if it's not your PI?

[plugandsocket]

I agree that all of this is basically moot since you've only been accepted to one of these schools. But in the event that you get into both and this actually becomes a decision (and for the benefit of other people in similar situations who read this now or in the future), I will offer you a different perspective, if I may: 

I'd go with the bigger name advisor at Arizona that can offer you more career-wise, since she seems like a decent person that you could envision working with. A lot of the personality-wise issues that you label as drawbacks at Arizona are things that you really can't tell, fully, in a prospective visit weekend. They take time to figure out. I say that, of course, as someone who both attended my own visit weekend and then learned what the department culture is really like after being a student for a few years, and as someone who has hosted prospectives when they come up since then. The following isn't meant to sound harsh, and it certainly isn't mean to condone hazing or ill treatment of new grad students, but FWIW: 

I'm guessing that current students there told you about struggles with getting their students engaged. But as a TA at an elite private R1, I can tell you that my colleagues and I similarly complain about this very issue on a regular basis. It's a struggle (almost) everywhere.

I wasn't there, of course, and everyone experiences things differently, but I get the sense you may be jumping the gun in deciding that there's "not much community among grad students" and that "people didn't seem particularly excited, friendly, or enthusiastic about what they do." When prospectives come up to visit us, we try to be friendly and welcoming, but there also can be somewhat of a (for better or worse) distance that older students keep from prospectives (and first years). It's not an attempt to be rude or unwelcoming; rather, the type of camaraderie that exists between people in the same cohort or among older students takes time to build. For example, when I visited my current institution as a prospective student, I attended a talk with an older grad student and then later she was going to take me to another event. After the lecture was over, she said, "I'm going to go talk to some people over there for awhile, but I'll meet you at X location at 5:15." Would it have been great if she had said, "Come with me and I'll introduce you around?" Sure, but I also understood that that's not how some people operate. And it was fine. So if people seemed "low key" or not tripping over themselves to meet you, don't take it personally. You describe yourself as "gregarious and excitable." It may have been that you have a different personality than many of the students you met. Some older grad students can also self impose distance from what they perceive as over eager prospectives or first years (not saying that you are, of course, having never met you. Just saying that some older grad students take that approach if they perceive that to be the case). So it could be that there is a thriving grad community there of people very much excited about their work, but for a myriad of different reasons, you didn't see it. That's ok. It can develop over time as you get to know people in whatever school you choose. I wish you all the best. 

Edited March 14, 2018 by plugandsocket