UCLA or Notre Dame?

[xorge84]

I'm facing a tough choice and I've come to you for advice/insights. I was accepted to UCLA to study Medieval history and to Notre Dame to study Latin American history with a Medieval minor. At both schools I would get a chance to be advised by amazing and highly respected professors (Patrick Geary at UCLA, Sabine MacCormack at Notre Dame).

Notre Dame is probably the better fit for me since they are strong in both Medieval history and the colonial Andes. Though UCLA is strong in Latin American history, their focus is more towards Mexico, the Caribbean and Brazil.

Obviously UCLA is ranked much higher than Notre Dame, but I get the impression that Notre Dame's Latin American program is developing quickly and they are already well respected in Medieval studies. Notre Dame has a lot of money for research travel and intensive language training abroad, which I fear may be at a short supply in California. (I'll be visiting UCLA in mid-March so I will get to ask these questions soon enough).

I was offered 5 years of funding at both schools but I've calculated housing alone would consume 45-50% of my stipend at UCLA whereas only about 20-25% at Notre Dame. Notre Dame might even add to my stipend so that I would receive more money there than at UCLA in absolute terms.

Even though financially I would be better off at Notre Dame would it be worth it at PhD time to take the risk of the lower ranked school with a still young program in Latin American history?

It also seems to be common knowledge, or just rumor, that historians of Latin America face a better job market than Europeanists or Medievalists. But once again, I'd be facing that job market with either a UCLA or Notre Dame degree.

As you can see, there are pros and cons on many levels. What might you decide? Or feel free to expound on any point.

Thanks

[TMP]

1) I learn in a personal finance class that your rent should consume no more than 30% of your income. Your taxes will be 30% of your income (just guessing), and the rest is whatever you want. What's more important to you?

2) I'm still scared of CA budgets. Before you go to UCLA, read everything you can on CA higher ed and ask a LOT of questions to the department. If they seem insecure in their answers, you have your answer.

3) As it's been discussed on this forum, it seems like these days with the overflow of top-ranked PhD holders accepting schools outside of top 20 into top 50, your Notre Dame PhD shouldn't hurt as long you're connected with well-respected professors in your field. I've been talking to one professor at Yale and he suggested someone at Emory (#28) and American University (well, granted it's like #92 or something) but it shows how important connections are. Even Yale PhD holders have trouble finding jobs, even with amazing connections. What's also important is how productive can you be with your work. It sounds like you're not going to hurt your productivity at ND with a well-established Medieval history program and an upcoming Latin American program.

That's so cool that you're looking at colonial Andes!!!

[StrangeLight]

does your potential advisor study medieval spain? imperial spain? spain and its colonies? if yes, then he's probably well-equipped to advise you on the colonial andes unless you're specifically looking to study indigenous communities. california's budget crisis is scary, but if you've been guaranteed 5 years of funding, then you've got that money. conference funds are usually negligible anyway, and travel funds can be secured from external sources as well the department, so i think financially UCLA is doable for you.

latin americanists do see more job listings than medievalists, but if you're studying colonial latin america, you'll get plenty of offers. we get degrees in "history," and our specializations are really whatever we decide to call them. even at UCLA, you can declare yourself a medieval latin americanist.

i'd probably go to UCLA if i were you, if only for the weather. you sound like you're trying to convince yourself to take notre dame over them instead, and i don't think you'd hurt your career prospects by doing so. if your advisor is well-known and well-respected, you'll be good to go at notre dame.

[heu mihi]

Though I didn't end up applying to either schools, I had long considered both, and asked a prof of mine who knows a lot of people in the field about them. She told me straight up that I should not go to UCLA to study with Patrick Geary as he is not a very nice person and would make a terrible advisor. She had very kind words for Notre Dame, however. Who you study with is everything. I really don't get why so many people are so hung up on rankings on this board. For medieval history, Notre Dame is excellent, and it would be much better than UCLA. And Sabine MacCormack is totally unique in that she studies both medieval and Latin American history. So, if I were you, I would hands down, definitely choose Notre Dame.

[breakfast]

I really don't get why so many people are so hung up on rankings on this board.

My guess is that some or most of them are trying to justify their overpriced ivy undergrad education by telling themselves that only PhD's from the top 10 have any chance at getting a job. Because, you know, I've never seen a prof. that didn't go to Columbia or Yale.

[africanhistoryphd]

My guess is that some or most of them are trying to justify their overpriced ivy undergrad education by telling themselves that only PhD's from the top 10 have any chance at getting a job. Because, you know, I've never seen a prof. that didn't go to Columbia or Yale.

Yeah, a couple went to Harvard.

[xorge84]

1)

That's so cool that you're looking at colonial Andes!!!

Thanks for the good advice. Yeah, I'm interested in the interactions between the indigenous Andeans and the Spanish and how both dealt with the conquest and the new social hierarchies that resulted, things like accommodation, cultural exchanges and conceptions of identity. Are you interested in the period too?

Everyone makes good points. I really can't make a bad choice here since both programs are rigorous and well respected. Though there is still a level of risk in the Latin American program at Notre Dame. Apparently the program is so new that they don't have any PhD graduates yet, so it's hard to compare job placements with UCLA. But having Sabine MacCormack as an advisor would be like being an apprentice for Michelangelo.