Religion PhD - Results Page

[Guest]

I also went to Chicago's open house and will be attending Harvard's this Tuesday, so I'd love to compare notes with those of you who will have attended both as well. What turned you all off about Chicago? I was not really considering Chicago anymore (even though it was my #1 choice) because of the financial aid offer... but I actually liked it after visiting! The rumors that professors are unavailable and that other students are competitive and cold didn't seem entirely true.

I don't know about Yale's placement of MAR students into PhD programs (though I'm sure they keep track of that sort of thing), but I thought that Yale was a bit touchy-feely.

Philmajor: In addition to emphasizing that Chicago pools most of its PhD students from its MA/MDiv programs, Dean Owens noted that the masters program at Chicago is more rigorous and better preparation for PhD work than other programs. As a student who will be graduating soon, do you agree? Do you think that you would have received as strong (or better) an education at Harvard or anywhere else? I think that Chicago's having only one faculty and offering both MA/MDivs and PhDs from the div school (as opposed to div and graduate) indicate more integrated programs and faculty.

[bah]

Chicago is really getting a bad rap here, though it's probably not totally undeserved. I spent a couple years there there, so I can say a thing or two about it...

The Master's program is, pretty simply, a winning lottery ticket for the Div School (that's how they pay their PhDs and profs). But I'm also not sure Harvard or Yale are much different, even if their Div Schools have more money lying around.

More likely to get in? True and not true. Statistically your chances will definitely be higher, and it never, ever hurts for faculties to have a face to put with the name... if they like the face. But if, as Philmajor says, they're down to only 18 spots and they're admitting 55 internals per year (not including MDivs) then, even if most of those 18 spots go to internals (which is doubtful) the margins are still far from a gaurantee. The fact that Chicago's MA program is a lottery ticket also means that they're much more liberal with MA admissions than with PhD admissions, which means that many MA students there aren't going to be stellar and, even if the education is more rigorous (see below), outside applicants will often have more impressive credentials. The Div School has a big financial incentive to sell incoming MA students on this point when, in fact, it's a bit tricky since the least likely students to get into the PhD program are also the least likely to realize what kind of playing field they're on. If you get there with a project in mind and you're ready to raise support for it then it's true that you're more likely to get in. But it's not a get in free card.

More rigorous? Again, true and not true. UC is intense. Its intellectual reputation is probably warranted on the whole; I knew a prof or two there who had been lured from an Ivy and said that there simply is no place like it. But I think this is mostly irrelevant for MA students because intellectual intensity and diversity don't necessarily equal good teaching or mentoring at the master's level, and this, like everywhere else, will depend entirely on who you want to work with. And there are great teachers there and others who stink the place up. They also don't go out of their way to make room for beginners. They drop you in the deepend and you either sink or swim. The main draw in terms of intellectual atmosphere for MA students is that it's simply the most interdisciplinary university in the country and, if you have a weird project or wide-ranging interests, you'll be in heaven. But if you're just getting your feet wet there's a good chance you'll go under.

As for the integrated faculty, there's something to that. UC really only has departments for administrative purposes because all of its faculty teach all over the university. The main advantage isn't that there aren't warring religious studies and divinity programs so much as that there are few borders at all within the university as a whole.

[Philmajor]

Chicago isn't a horrible place to get your MA. It's actually been very good for me as I was looking for a high intensity atmosphere with intelluctual conversation happening around every corner. I found the program to be very intense and it is definately a sink or swim atmosphere. The quarter system doesn't allow much time to "catch up" if you fall behind or are unfamiliar with the material. My first quarter was a shock and I thought for sure I wouldn't make it through until Christmas - I felt as though I was drowning. To be honest, it was the best thing that could have happened to me - everyone who is admitted is smart (some smarter than others). We've all been told we're smart and have done well in undergrad, if we hadn't Chicago wouldn't have accepted us. Being in a class with 10 other really smart, intense people can be difficult - so be prepared!

As an MA student the professors I have had all had office hours - they are more than happy to speak with you at that time. Some are more engaging than others but I'm sure that's true regardless of the school. I can say that I haven't had a class that is solely taught be a TA; the professors do teach the class (at least in my experience). The TA may hold a weekly meeting to review material, discuss things in a more indepth way.

Shestandsakimbo - I have no idea if the program has prepared me well - I certainly think that it has but I'll find out when I start applying next cycle.

As for the PhD doing his degree in a different department - that's not a big deal at Chicago. It's actually one of the great things because you have the freedom to study anything you want. You can take an english class just because it sounds interesting!

Chicago is having some issues but I'm sure that Harvard, Yale, etc. have issues too. If you like the fit, received some $$ don't not attend because of the issues this year. I would hope that by the time you're ready to apply to the PhD everything will be straightened out.

[religiousphilosopher]

Well, Chicago has been my #1 choice for a while... I'm still struggling with the decision, actually.

[tingbaring]

I got into Chicago today for the PhD in theology!!!!!!

[Philmajor]

Fantastic new Tingbaring! Congratulations and good luck next year.

[religiousphilosopher]

Good to hear (err... read)!

[sarah4153]

I just let UCSB and UVA know I wasn't coming, so if anyone is on the waitlist - good luck!

[religiousphilosopher]

How many MTS students does Harvard take?

[Guest]

I think there's about 100 MTS students in each class, if that helps. The Dean of Students at Chicago told me that about 160 students apply to the MA program, 80 are accepted, and 40 matriculate. I'd imagine that the ratio is similar at Harvard, although offers to acceptances may be higher, since Harvard seems to offer better financial aid packages.

Did you end up going with Harvard? I sent in my reply form and deposit almost 3 weeks ago, but the check hasn't cleared my account yet! :\

[religiousphilosopher]

Yeah, I did end up going with Harvard. I think it'll be a good time! (wow... that's nerdy to say... )

[religiousphilosopher]

Question to whomever might know:

What are the advantages of getting an MDiv over an MTS when applying to PhD programs? I recently heard that MDiv is more competetive because its a longer degree, and thus gives you more experience.

[demondeac]

Question to whomever might know:

What are the advantages of getting an MDiv over an MTS when applying to PhD programs? I recently heard that MDiv is more competetive because its a longer degree, and thus gives you more experience.

Having an MDiv, and working on an MA in philosophy, I can say that the MDiv has a definitive time advantage. My current MA program is only 2 years (I'm shooting for 1.5), and I don't know how you could develop an academic friendship with any professors in that span of time. For a two year program, assuming you start taking courses with faculty you would like to write your rec letters immediately (which I wouldn't recommend assuming!), and that professor would have to start writing those letters in the Fall of your second year, you might have taken 1 or two classes with the prof! During my MDiv, I took 30 classes over 3 years, so about 7 of those were with my primary letter writer. That is a definite advantage when it comes to letter writing, because academics WILL NOT leverage their academic reputation on 1-2 courses of experience with a student. That is unless they are "known" for always writing glowing recommendations for anyone with a pulse, in which case the committees reviewing your application will likely look unfavorably upon the letter (have heard stories from faculty on this account). And there are plenty of ways to write a "positive" letter of recommendation while alluding to the fact that he or she only had the student in two classes.

In any case, I say go for the MDiv if only because it gives you more experience. If you've ever been to an academic conference, you'll also know immediately who has homiletics experience and who just went for the MTS

[rising_star]

Having an MDiv, and working on an MA in philosophy, I can say that the MDiv has a definitive time advantage. My current MA program is only 2 years (I'm shooting for 1.5), and I don't know how you could develop an academic friendship with any professors in that span of time. For a two year program, assuming you start taking courses with faculty you would like to write your rec letters immediately (which I wouldn't recommend assuming!), and that professor would have to start writing those letters in the Fall of your second year, you might have taken 1 or two classes with the prof!

I'm not in religion but I have a different perspective to offer on this. I did a 2 year MA program and used my three committee members, all of whom I'd taken two classes with before applying, as my recommenders. I have no clue what they wrote but it must have been great because I got in with funding to all of my schools. How well they get to know you depends a lot on the effort you put in. My writers knew me because I was in their offices, was working on a MA thesis with them, and because our courses were small (under 15, often less than 8 people).