Macro Programs - Comparisons UChicago, UIUC, etc

[CashewGuy]

Hi everyone,

So I am evaluating Macro programs.  I am a current BSW student at UIUC, which has an advanced standing Leadership and Social Change Program.  From what I understand, UIUC has a good program, I like the setting and instructors.  My main hesitation is that the Macro program is much smaller, and I am concerned about the amount of field placement for Macro that might be interesting to me.

I am also looking at UChicago.  UChicago is much more expensive, but I feel like the city of Chicago is a great place to get set up for Macro work, The SSA is ranked #3 nationally in Social Work, and I think that the field placement opportunities would be much more in line with my career goals and I think UChicago would allow me a better opportunity to network with people.  UChicago also has some dual law classes that I think would help with my interest in the intersection of social work and law, but not require the intensity of a dual MSW/JD program.  I used to live in Chicago and love the city, as well.  One of my main hesitations is the degree is an AM rather than MSW, and I worry a little about how this is perceived.

Both of these programs would take about a year with advanced standing.

I'm also thinking about Boston and Columbia, but they don't really make me super excited.  Can anyone share experiences with these programs, and offer some wisdom?

[CelestialJenkins]

I feel like especially for more macro stuff the AM would be just as useful.  Everyone I’ve talked to considers the degree to be equivalent to an MSW, and I feel like when it comes down to it it would really just depend on your practicum experience and stuff.  I do like that the idea of a slightly more interdisciplinary option, though.

I would also say that you should really base your decision on a financial future as well, which I hate to say, but there are a lot of good programs and almost all of them are similar.  Again, I feel like practicum matters a little more than the programs themselves. That said, I applied to only expensive programs this year seeking funding, and decided that if I didn’t get funding I would work a year and apply to a wider variety of programs, as I’m in my last year of a bachelors degree as well.  I got into University of Denver ($32k scholarship), USC ($10k scholarship) Washington University in St. Louis / WashU ($55k scholarship), and I should hear back from University of Chicago any day (they tend to be the most generous program regarding funding, but I applied for their April 1 deadline). That 55k scholarship at WUSTL makes it cheaper than in-state tuition at a state school, so for me that program would be worth it.  Going over 100k in debt for an MSW just wouldn’t make sense to me...I’d say rally hard for scholarships, then pick your best option.  But apply for state schools too...there’s overlap in practicum experiences and they’re a fraction of the price...but there also isn’t as much funding available. 

[CashewGuy]

Several people seem to suggest the same as far as the AM degree goes - several I've spoken to represent it as an MSW (unsure as to the ethics of that), including some faculty professors at my current University.

I am in line with your thinking as to the importance of field practicum.  I don't feel that Illinois at Urbana-Champaign would have field placements in public policy/legislation that would really benefit me as much as UChicago would.

I would be going into the Advanced Standing program, and my tally is that tuition for UChicago would be around 80k for me.  Not sure how close that is to reality.  I will be visiting their campus in a few weeks to see the school and meet with staff.  Most other programs I'm looking at are combined MSW/JD, but rather than do one of those, I think I would complete the MSW portion and see if I wanted to add a law degree on top of it.  I have a meeting with a professor that is an MSW/JD to discuss this, it's my understanding that she usually doesn't suggest it for probably obvious reasons.  I feel like I should at least position myself towards a school with a decent law program should that want ever manifest.  Thanks for your response!

[TheCrow]

I am a UChicago alum and I disagree with listing an MSW behind your name if that's not the name of the degree you actually received (and we're not the only ones - Columbia and Case Western grant theirs as an MS). However, you will be eligible for licensure, and that will make it clear to people inside and outside the discipline. It seems extremely ridiculous to me that in many states one would be something like CashewGuy, MSW, LMSW.  We get it. You have a master's degree in social work, and you're licensed. 

One thing I would also caution people on is to think about what their goals are. Chicago is a politics city, not a policy city, for example. If you want to work to impact change in the city after graduation, I'm not sure policy skills or degree prestige are actually valued as much as people think. But if you want to do policy at the federal level, which is where a lot of the policy work really is, prestige really helps. Also, there are a lot of federal agencies in Chicago, and I was able to work at one for both years of my time at SSA (and I work at one now that I've graduated).

It's a difficult trade off because there's often not a clear choice. It doesn't make sense for someone who wants to be a therapist to go 100k in debt for an MSW. But prestige may be important in certain career paths, particularly policy. But you're going to need to aim for a certain subset of jobs to justify the cost. I will also warn you that my experience was that the UChicago name opens doors, but the SSA degree does not necessarily teach you what you need to get a particular policy/administrative job or to do it well. You have to make sure you're in the driver's seat of your own career path, rather than just sort of showing up and hoping someone hires you afterwards. I think this is grad school in generally, but it's especially true for fields where the labor market isn't as directly organized as something like nursing or computer science. 

Some advice I heard about the JD/MSW is that you're either going to be hired as a lawyer or as a social worker, but not as both at the same time. And unfortunately, the law path requires a lot more debt (and is much more prestige obsessed) than social work. Law school admissions is also basically 100% your LSAT and undergraduate GPA, and nothing else. Going to a top 10-14 law school is really difficult and expensive, but is one of the clearest paths to well-paid policy work with real impact. If you're not able to get into one of those programs, you're almost definitely better off going to a night or weekend JD while working full-time. And unless you actually plan on practicing law, you're probably better off getting a different degree from a higher status school if you want to get into policy.

Just my two cents.

Edited May 2, 2018 by TheCrow

[CashewGuy]

I feel the same about degree listing, licensure is what matters to me for that purpose.

I am more interested in Federal policy than Chicago politics.  Much of what you say re: UChicago name recognition and policy work is exactly what draws me there.  Hearing about the field placements in federal agencies gets me more interested.

I feel that I can probably do the work that I want to do without a JD, as I have no interest in practicing law as much as writing and implementing policy.  Thanks for your response!