Turning Down Rochester?

[APGradApplicant]

Hey guys. So as most of you know, I've been waitlisted at University of Rochester, which is currently my first choice. I'm just trying to get some idea as to what my chances will be at getting offered a spot (I'm first on the list currently). What I'm wondering is if there is anybody (and one person has PMed me letting me know this already) who was offered admission and has explicitly turned them down at this point? I know GradCafe isn't necesarilly the best representation of all applicants, but thought it at least wouldn't hurt to start this thread. Thanks!

[anxiousapplicant]

You haven't been accepted to enough schools, I take it?

[Keller65]

APGradApplicant, your request is completely legitimate. Over the past week, this place has turned into the end scene of "Apocalypse Now". It is a result of bitterness of acceptances drying up or the thin veneer of decorum presaging admission season wearing off. Everyone was happy about getting laid by their dream school, and now they have either blue balls or they are tired of the pillow talk and want a cigarette.

Sadly, I don't think you'll know anything until after visiting weekend, whenever that is. Few people will turn down a funded getaway weekend (even if one is not going to accept, I imagine it's good for networking). So I would try to glean information on when that is. Then, those who will decline will likely wait an appropriate length of time to give the impression that they are showing due deliberation -- a week -- and you will get accepted.

[gravityflyer]

... Over the past week, this place has turned into the end scene of "Apocalypse Now". It is a result of bitterness of acceptances drying up or the thin veneer of decorum presaging admission season wearing off. Everyone was happy about getting laid by their dream school, and now they have either blue balls or they are tired of the pillow talk and want a cigarette.

Keller65 - LOL! I hereby nominate this post as the most poetic yet on Grad Cafe. Haha, love it!

[APGradApplicant]

APGradApplicant, your request is completely legitimate. Over the past week, this place has turned into the end scene of "Apocalypse Now". It is a result of bitterness of acceptances drying up or the thin veneer of decorum presaging admission season wearing off. Everyone was happy about getting laid by their dream school, and now they have either blue balls or they are tired of the pillow talk and want a cigarette.

Sadly, I don't think you'll know anything until after visiting weekend, whenever that is. Few people will turn down a funded getaway weekend (even if one is not going to accept, I imagine it's good for networking). So I would try to glean information on when that is. Then, those who will decline will likely wait an appropriate length of time to give the impression that they are showing due deliberation -- a week -- and you will get accepted.

Keller65- Very well said! Thanks for defending what I, too, think is my completely reasonable inquiry. If some people have been rejected by places and are somehow bitter over it-- well, that's their problem, not mine. And yes, very good point about the visit weekend. I'm thinking it will be only after this that some people will decline (and presumably some people will accept!).

I have a funny taste in my mouth...hmm...must be sour grapes

The admissions process is a tough game and it's clearly not for everybody. But you, gravityflyer and many others on this site have been good sports throughout. Should be an interesting few weeks as things start coming together!

Edited March 10, 2010 by APGradApplicant

[Aunuwyn]

Being on a waitlist myself I would like everyone to just decline their offer so I can get in

[Bobb Cobb]

Sometimes physical violence can work as a persuasive tool. I would keep this in mind as April 15th draws near...

Seriously, good luck guys!

[anxiousapplicant]

Keller65- Very well said! Thanks for defending what I, too, think is my completely reasonable inquiry. If some people have been rejected by places and are somehow bitter over it-- well, that's their problem, not mine. And yes, very good point about the visit weekend. I'm thinking it will be only after this that some people will decline (and presumably some people will accept!).

I have a funny taste in my mouth...hmm...must be sour grapes

The admissions process is a tough game and it's clearly not for everybody. But you, gravityflyer and many others on this site have been good sports throughout. Should be an interesting few weeks as things start coming together!

Actually, "AP," I got a full ride plus GA yesterday to somewhere I really like. So don't say it's sour grapes on my part. A lot of people on this board haven't heard from anywhere and have been rejected from a lot of places and they probably don't feel like hearing someone whining who got into nine schools but not his precious "top" choice.

[Aunuwyn]

Sometimes physical violence can work as a persuasive tool. I would keep this in mind as April 15th draws near...

Seriously, good luck guys!

Oh believe me that would be on the table if i had targets to direct it upon . Then again, you can be my source of D&D (denial and deception) to the IR folks at the visit hehehe.

[Aunuwyn]

Actually, "AP," I got a full ride plus GA yesterday to somewhere I really like. So don't say it's sour grapes on my part. A lot of people on this board haven't heard from anywhere and have been rejected from a lot of places and they probably don't feel like hearing someone whining who got into nine schools but not his precious "top" choice.

Congrats on the acceptance and funding! Where are you looking at going?

[anxiousapplicant]

Congrats on the acceptance and funding! Where are you looking at going?

I'll PM you.

[APGradApplicant]

Actually, "AP," I got a full ride plus GA yesterday to somewhere I really like. So don't say it's sour grapes on my part. A lot of people on this board haven't heard from anywhere and have been rejected from a lot of places and they probably don't feel like hearing someone whining who got into nine schools but not his precious "top" choice.

Glad to hear about your acceptance. If that is the case, then stop speaking for other people on this board (although what I suspect is that given you were one of those people up until yesterday's acceptance, it was sour grapes-turned "I assume those who didn't get my good news yesterday continue to have sour grapes"). Oh well. I can't control what others think.

[Bobb Cobb]

I am really disappointed in the way things have turned out around here.

[APGradApplicant]

I am really disappointed in the way things have turned out around here.

Agreed. Keller was right about what he said yesterday. For some reason, as we're nearing the end of decisions coming out, this place is turning into some kind of war zone. People who for whatever reason didn't have what it takes to get into any of the programs to which they applied are getting bitter and deciding to pounce on perfectly reasonable statements/questions being posed by myself and other more or less sane people here. I started this thread for one reason and one reason only- to ask a simple question. Instead, it turned into mud-slinging thanks to one snide comment by anxiousapplicant. I'm sorry for whatever part I played. I think we're all just a little stressed.

Everybody take a deep breath and relax

[anxiousapplicant]

Honestly, why do you want me to be experiencing sour grapes so badly? Would it make you feel better if I did? Unlike some people, however, I didn't apply to over a dozen schools, I applied only to those schools I would be happy to attend, unlike you, apparently.

[Keller65]

Time to discuss: why did APGradApplicant apply to the schools he did?

[plisar]

duplicate, sorry.

Edited March 10, 2010 by plisar

[plisar]

Almost all of us were advised by professors to send applications to a broad set of schools (typically between 10 and 20) and I don't think that you need to be telling others off because they did this. More importantly, people can and should be allowed to talk about their entire experience, and shouldn't be made to feel bad for wanting to get off the wait list at a "top choice." We should be rooting for AP, not making him feel bad. He's certainly not bragging. That being said, admitted folks, take your time making your decisions .Don't feel like you're obligated to those on wait lists in turning down schools quickly.

And as a side note, I'm really saddened to see how this year's crop of students is interacting, at least on this website. I'm good friends with many people who used this site last year, and got drinks with them a number of times over the summer. I've written R packages with one person who is now attending my alma mater, and look forward to seeing him when I go back to visit. In summary, this is a grind, and you need friends in the profession. For those of you who have made it quite clear who you are, think about that every time you make a post on this forum that is snarky. For those of you who have yet to be outed publicly, there is no need to use anonymity to be mean spirited. You've all posted a ton of identifying information, and there is no need for any of you to be anything but collegial to one another.

[natofone]

Almost all of us were advised by professors to send applications to a broad set of schools (typically between 10 and 20) and I don't think that you need to be telling others off because they did this. More importantly, people can and should be allowed to talk about their entire experience, and shouldn't be made to feel bad for wanting to get off the wait list at a "top choice." We should be rooting for AP, not making him feel bad. He's certainly not bragging.

Agreed. Congrats on your success AP.

[curiousgeorge84]

Almost all of us were advised by professors to send applications to a broad set of schools (typically between 10 and 20) and I don't think that you need to be telling others off because they did this. More importantly, people can and should be allowed to talk about their entire experience, and shouldn't be made to feel bad for wanting to get off the wait list at a "top choice." We should be rooting for AP, not making him feel bad. He's certainly not bragging. That being said, admitted folks, take your time making your decisions .Don't feel like you're obligated to those on wait lists in turning down schools quickly.

And as a side note, I'm really saddened to see how this year's crop of students is interacting, at least on this website. I'm good friends with many people who used this site last year, and got drinks with them a number of times over the summer. I've written R packages with one person who is now attending my alma mater, and look forward to seeing him when I go back to visit. In summary, this is a grind, and you need friends in the profession. For those of you who have made it quite clear who you are, think about that every time you make a post on this forum that is snarky. For those of you who have yet to be outed publicly, there is no need to use anonymity to be mean spirited. You've all posted a ton of identifying information, and there is no need for any of you to be anything but collegial to one another.

Wow. I guess I missed the memo. I only applied to 6 and I thought that was a lot

[curiousgeorge84]

On that note. A quick question for all. Where are people finding the money to pay for 10 or 20 applications?

[anxiousapplicant]

Almost all of us were advised by professors to send applications to a broad set of schools (typically between 10 and 20) and I don't think that you need to be telling others off because they did this. More importantly, people can and should be allowed to talk about their entire experience, and shouldn't be made to feel bad for wanting to get off the wait list at a "top choice." We should be rooting for AP, not making him feel bad. He's certainly not bragging. That being said, admitted folks, take your time making your decisions .Don't feel like you're obligated to those on wait lists in turning down schools quickly.

And as a side note, I'm really saddened to see how this year's crop of students is interacting, at least on this website. I'm good friends with many people who used this site last year, and got drinks with them a number of times over the summer. I've written R packages with one person who is now attending my alma mater, and look forward to seeing him when I go back to visit. In summary, this is a grind, and you need friends in the profession. For those of you who have made it quite clear who you are, think about that every time you make a post on this forum that is snarky. For those of you who have yet to be outed publicly, there is no need to use anonymity to be mean spirited. You've all posted a ton of identifying information, and there is no need for any of you to be anything but collegial to one another.

We were all advised to apply to 10 or 20 schools? Really? Sorry for coming from an urban, low-income area where I could barely afford six applications. And I don't care what you have to say about "being snarky" and sour grapes and all that nonsense. I have tried to be on the side of those having a hard time. Those buried in acceptances don't need any more cheerleaders. I'm personally not going to have a cent of debt when I graduate from grad school, so I don't even have a dog in this fight. Sorry for having sympathy for those who DO have what it takes to get into grad schools (contrary to what Mr. AP says, it is indeed possible to "have what it takes" and yet not be accepted) but who have had the misfortune of not getting accepted as of right now.

[APGradApplicant]

On 3/10/2010 at 2:50 PM, anxiousapplicant said:

Honestly, why do you want me to be experiencing sour grapes so badly? Would it make you feel better if I did? Unlike some people, however, I didn't apply to over a dozen schools, I applied only to those schools I would be happy to attend, unlike you, apparently.

OK...So I honestly have taken a deep breath and relaxed a little bit, as I hate the way I get when I feel like I'm firing back and forth with people via internet. I know tone is hard to sense when it's just words, but what I'm about to say is being said in all seriousness, not with any kind of yelling, sarcasm, cynicism, etc.

Anxiousapplicant- Fair point on your part that maybe I'm trying to push the idea you're experiencing sour grapes. It was an angry reaction to what I perceived as a sarcastic dig on your part in terms of your reply to the thread I started. I know people's emotions have been running high during this tough part of the process. But if you didn't like the thread, then you should have just decided not to respond. So I apologize for getting beligerent towards you in some of my earlier posts.

For everyone, let me also clarify how I feel about my current choices for schools. I think UC-Davis and UT-Austin are not good, not very good, but GREAT choices for me to have as acceptances. At the same time, I think Rochester is not a great choice but an OUTSTANDING choice. I would be incredibly happy going to ANY of those schools. What's frustrating of course, and I think anyone else currently on a wait list (Aunuwyn?) can attest to this, is that there's a lack of certainty similar to the one all of us felt during late Jan, all of Feb, and for some you even the early days of this month. When this lack of certainty persists, I get restless and then think up ways to try and "project" what might happen. This very thread is a product of such behavior. AA tries to teach me to live one day at a time but I must confess I am not always good at listening to that suggestion. So yes, let me be clear, I am very happy with any of the choices of I have now.

Let me also address why I applied to as many schools as I did, as I think it's a legitimate quesiton. Going into this admissions cycle, I had no idea what to expect in terms of outcome. I knew apps would be up for last year, but how much? I knew my GRE scores were strong, but what about the fact I had a 3.25 undergrad? Is this made up for by a 3.49 in poli sci? But wait, even that's not that great of a GPA...How much does undergrad school prestige matter? Am I screwed because I didn't get a 5.5 or 6.0 on AWA? Will they even take people who haven't had any research experience as undergrads? That's not to mention that I didn't even write a senior thesis...

OK, above rambling was to demonstrate just how unsure I was about whether I'd get in anywhere at all. So, what I decided to do was find a good list of schools that all had professors with at least some of my research interests and that I could imagine attending. There were of course some that I wanted to attend more than others, but nonetheless all of them were ones that I could imagine myself attending. I tried to cut the fat from the list somewhat, but decided that in the end, it was important to cast a wide net and to have plenty of schools that I thought were safe, especially because I didn't really trust my judgement as to what was "safe" and what wasn't. Just to clarify, I did consult with my three LOR-writers about this process when I asked them, but like most professors, they all have varying opinions and varying predictions about the whole process, so I had to sort through that as well. Anyhow, I ended up breaking my schools into five categories:

Long reach: UCSD, MIT, Rochester, WashU

Moderate reach: UNC, UMN, OSU

Just about in range (ie could go either way): Emory, UCD, UT-Austin, FSU, Iowa, Notre Dame

Moderately Safe: Florida and Georgia

Very Safe: Oklahoma and SUNY-Albany

So anyhow, that's why I applied to so many, is I just wasn't sure what was going to happen and I figured that in the event I was only admitted to the schools I saw as safe in some form or another (or let's say only the ones I saw as "very safe"), then I would at least (hopefully) have some options to pick from. So yes, in retrospect, did I perhaps apply to a few too many? Probably. But as the old axiom goes "hindsight is 20/20". So I'd still call it a smart strategy for any future applicant, presuming you're not of the "Having No Phd is Better Than Having a Non-Top 10 PhD" mindset.

So yeah, just to reiterate, I'm sorry if I got a little over the top earlier in my strong reaction to some previous posts and should let everyone know that Rochester or no Rochester, I'll be very happy this coming fall. Sorry if I said anything to indicate otherwise.

I should also add that obviously I'll never have the chance to get 17 different PhDs but my guess is that there are plenty of schools with less "prestige" at which I would have been a happier student than some of the ones with more prestige.

I also think it shows how random the whole process can be, given that I was waitlisted at a school that I considered to be among the toughest and at the same time rejected or wait listed at ones that I thought were 50-50. Another reason to cast a wide net.

[anxiousapplicant]

On 3/10/2010 at 3:32 PM, APGradApplicant said:

OK...So I honestly have taken a deep breath and relaxed a little bit, as I hate the way I get when I feel like I'm firing back and forth with people via internet. I know tone is hard to sense when it's just words, but what I'm about to say is being said in all seriousness, not with any kind of yelling, sarcasm, cynicism, etc.

Anxiousapplicant- Fair point on your part that maybe I'm trying to push the idea you're experiencing sour grapes. It was an angry reaction to what I perceived as a sarcastic dig on your part in terms of your reply to the thread I started. I know people's emotions have been running high during this tough part of the process. But if you didn't like the thread, then you should have just decided not to respond. So I apologize for getting beligerent towards you in some of my earlier posts.

For everyone, let me also clarify how I feel about my current choices for schools. I think UC-Davis and UT-Austin are not good, not very good, but GREAT choices for me to have as acceptances. At the same time, I think Rochester is not a great choice but an OUTSTANDING choice. I would be incredibly happy going to ANY of those schools. What's frustrating of course, and I think anyone else currently on a wait list (Aunuwyn?) can attest to this, is that there's a lack of certainty similar to the one all of us felt during late Jan, all of Feb, and for some you even the early days of this month. When this lack of certainty persists, I get restless and then think up ways to try and "project" what might happen. This very thread is a product of such behavior. AA tries to teach me to live one day at a time but I must confess I am not always good at listening to that suggestion. So yes, let me be clear, I am very happy with any of the choices of I have now.

Let me also address why I applied to as many schools as I did, as I think it's a legitimate quesiton. Going into this admissions cycle, I had no idea what to expect in terms of outcome. I knew apps would be up for last year, but how much? I knew my GRE scores were strong, but what about the fact I had a 3.25 undergrad? Is this made up for by a 3.49 in poli sci? But wait, even that's not that great of a GPA...How much does undergrad school prestige matter? Am I screwed because I didn't get a 5.5 or 6.0 on AWA? Will they even take people who haven't had any research experience as undergrads? That's not to mention that I didn't even write a senior thesis...

OK, above rambling was to demonstrate just how unsure I was about whether I'd get in anywhere at all. So, what I decided to do was find a good list of schools that all had professors with at least some of my research interests and that I could imagine attending. There were of course some that I wanted to attend more than others, but nonetheless all of them were ones that I could imagine myself attending. I tried to cut the fat from the list somewhat, but decided that in the end, it was important to cast a wide net and to have plenty of schools that I thought were safe, especially because I didn't really trust my judgement as to what was "safe" and what wasn't. Just to clarify, I did consult with my three LOR-writers about this process when I asked them, but like most professors, they all have varying opinions and varying predictions about the whole process, so I had to sort through that as well. Anyhow, I ended up breaking my schools into five categories:

Long reach: UCSD, MIT, Rochester, WashU

Moderate reach: UNC, UMN, OSU

Just about in range (ie could go either way): Emory, UCD, UT-Austin, FSU, Iowa, Notre Dame

Moderately Safe: Florida and Georgia

Very Safe: Oklahoma and SUNY-Albany

So anyhow, that's why I applied to so many, is I just wasn't sure what was going to happen and I figured that in the event I was only admitted to the schools I saw as safe in some form or another (or let's say only the ones I saw as "very safe"), then I would at least (hopefully) have some options to pick from. So yes, in retrospect, did I perhaps apply to a few too many? Probably. But as the old axiom goes "hindsight is 20/20". So I'd still call it a smart strategy for any future applicant, presuming you're not of the "Having No Phd is Better Than Having a Non-Top 10 PhD" mindset.

So yeah, just to reiterate, I'm sorry if I got a little over the top earlier in my strong reaction to some previous posts and should let everyone know that Rochester or no Rochester, I'll be very happy this coming fall. Sorry if I said anything to indicate otherwise.

I should also add that obviously I'll never have the chance to get 17 different PhDs but my guess is that there are plenty of schools with less "prestige" at which I would have been a happier student than some of the ones with more prestige.

I also think it shows how random the whole process can be, given that I was waitlisted at a school that I considered to be among the toughest and at the same time rejected or wait listed at ones that I thought were 50-50. Another reason to cast a wide net.

Alright, fair enough, we've made our points and we understand one another now. I ought not to have been so rude myself and I apologize. Sometimes I wallow too much in the suckiness of life, including the suckiness experienced by other people, and I take it too seriously. I'm glad we've called a truce; this isn't "poli sci job rumors" after all. Those of us who have options should be happy, and those of us who don't can get advice to do better next time. It's not the end of the world either way, I guess.

[APGradApplicant]

Alright, fair enough, we've made our points and we understand one another now. I ought not to have been so rude myself and I apologize. Sometimes I wallow too much in the suckiness of life, including the suckiness experienced by other people, and I take it too seriously. I'm glad we've called a truce; this isn't "poli sci job rumors" after all. Those of us who have options should be happy, and those of us who don't can get advice to do better next time. It's not the end of the world either way, I guess.

Yes, very true. Even though I'm in between school right now (haven't been in undergrad since May of 2008), I still learn new things every day. Today's lesson is a perfect example