The math section on the GRE

[1....g6!]

Despite every school I've looked at only stating consideration of the verbal section, I can't help but think that a poor score on the math section will leave me looking like a donkey. How much should I worry about it?

[lmiscellany]

Despite every school I've looked at only stating consideration of the verbal section, I can't help but think that a poor score on the math section will leave me looking like a donkey. How much should I worry about it?

My math scores were absolutely dismal (less than 20th percentile) and I don't think it harmed me in either round of applications. For M.A. I got into 10/10 schools I applied to (some with funding) and for PhD I have offers from several programs strong in my field. If a school even tells you that they don't care about your quantitative score, I don't think you have anything to worry about. My verbal was high and my writing perfect, but even those scores probably don't have much weight in an adcomm's decision. As many people have noted in this forum, it is the statement and writing sample that count. Professors on admissions committees that I have spoken with tell me that GRE scores are generally the last thing they glance at (despite the widespread impression that they are the first, and used as a weeding out mechanism - it seems more typical to weed out the people who aren't ready for grad school by reading the first few sentences of their SOP).

[1....g6!]

My math scores were absolutely dismal (less than 20th percentile) and I don't think it harmed me in either round of applications. For M.A. I got into 10/10 schools I applied to (some with funding) and for PhD I have offers from several programs strong in my field. If a school even tells you that they don't care about your quantitative score, I don't think you have anything to worry about. My verbal was high and my writing perfect, but even those scores probably don't have much weight in an adcomm's decision. As many people have noted in this forum, it is the statement and writing sample that count. Professors on admissions committees that I have spoken with tell me that GRE scores are generally the last thing they glance at (despite the widespread impression that they are the first, and used as a weeding out mechanism - it seems more typical to weed out the people who aren't ready for grad school by reading the first few sentences of their SOP).

Thanks. That's reassuring. I've stressed about the math section.

[waitingforfall]

Math? I'm waitlisted at a school that required the subject test...and I scored in the 17th percentile on that one. I wouldn't worry about math

[cesada]

When I was applying I met with the chair of a top ten English department. In the course of the conversation, he asked about my GPA and GRE scores. When I started to tell him my math scores, he interrupted me, laughed, and said that they didn't care about the math score at all.

I was surprised, I thought it would at least make some difference... I even studied for it, since I haven't taken a math class since junior year of high school. Time wasted, apparently!

[lady_coffee]

While it seems that the math score doesn't particularly matter for admission, it can matter - at some schools - for funding. Funding comes down through the Graduate School, and the only base of comparison that they have for students across disciplines is the GRE. Please correct me if I'm wrong (as I'm someone with a terrible math score who would very much like to be accepted with good funding), but it seems that the GS at least takes the score into account when considering finances. That, however, is from sources who were in graduate school up to 8-10 years ago. So you can take it for what it's worth, and if anyone has more current information, please contribute! :-)

[spartaca]

While it seems that the math score doesn't particularly matter for admission, it can matter - at some schools - for funding. Funding comes down through the Graduate School, and the only base of comparison that they have for students across disciplines is the GRE. Please correct me if I'm wrong (as I'm someone with a terrible math score who would very much like to be accepted with good funding), but it seems that the GS at least takes the score into account when considering finances. That, however, is from sources who were in graduate school up to 8-10 years ago. So you can take it for what it's worth, and if anyone has more current information, please contribute! :-)

While I was an MA student, I assisted in the department's grad admissions office during application season doing mainly clerical/organizational work. I learned quite a bit about how this particular program conducts its admissions. And yes, lady_coffee, to a certain extent, test scores are more important to the Dean of Arts & Sciences and/or TPTB at the Graduate School than to the department. Basically, if an applicant has acceptable-to-exceptional test scores, securing the approval for funding from higher-ups is easy. The Dean/GS doesn't read the applicant's file, nor would they necessarily be able to decide if a particular applicant should be admitted if they did, but rather receives a letter from the adcomm requesting approval to offer the applicant a line of funding along with copies of a few select documents from his/her application. If there happens to be an applicant whom the department wants but whose test scores fall below what is generally considered acceptable, the adcomm's task of justifying their decision in the letter to the Dean/GS is just a little harder, since TPTB really want to be able to publish reports about how great their graduate students are, and will use quantifiable evidence, like test scores, to support this. (One former prof told me that they just want to be able to say, "X% of our graduate students in the College of Arts & Sciences fall above Y percentile on the GRE Verbal and above Z percentile on the GRE Quantitative, with A% having a combined score of B or higher.")

Sometimes the Dean or Graduate School will set a minimum GRE score for funding, which is why certain programs will publish a minimum on their websites. It's not that the department necessarily thinks that test scores are important--in fact, in my experience, most departments really don't--but rather that they know what scores the higher-ups like to see, and thus want to make the process of obtaining funding approval as smooth as possible.

So yeah... test scores are important, but not always in the ways we think they are. This particular program made sure to read every single file--they didn't weed out a first round of rejections based on low test scores, though I will say that if an applicant was iffy based on SoP, LoRs, and/or writing sample, lower test scores were used to take the "maybe" to a rejection. Moral of the story: always, always, always do all that you can to ensure your SoP and writing sample are as strong as possible because a department will go to bat for you if they think you show promise that isn't accurately reflected in your test scores.

[tortugita]

The grad assistant at Northwestern told me that they prefer both Verbal and Quantitative at 700 or higher. Their website mentions a target score of 650 on the Quant section.

So there's one school that does care...just enough to maybe make it worth studying for.

Edited March 15, 2010 by tortugita

[PaperChaser]

My math scores were absolutely dismal (less than 20th percentile) and I don't think it harmed me in either round of applications. For M.A. I got into 10/10 schools I applied to (some with funding) and for PhD I have offers from several programs strong in my field. If a school even tells you that they don't care about your quantitative score, I don't think you have anything to worry about. My verbal was high and my writing perfect, but even those scores probably don't have much weight in an adcomm's decision. As many people have noted in this forum, it is the statement and writing sample that count. Professors on admissions committees that I have spoken with tell me that GRE scores are generally the last thing they glance at (despite the widespread impression that they are the first, and used as a weeding out mechanism - it seems more typical to weed out the people who aren't ready for grad school by reading the first few sentences of their SOP).

THANK YOU for posting that honestly! I did equally bad (um, technically slightly worse) on the quant section and my subject test was an embarrassment! I can only speak for Rhet/Comp, but the programs I applied to and were accepted by gave GRE scores the lowest weight on their admissions schematic. VA Tech was cool enough to admit that they had enough "math geeks" around that I could borrow a calculator if I needed to add 2+2 I think a VERY low verbal score (below 60th percentile maybe?) would be a red flag to most programs-again, only speaking Rhet/Comp-but one could counter that with strong grades and excellent SOPs, LORs, and a kickass writing sample. Don't stress about low GREs....just make the rest of your app stand out

[foppery]

Harvard's website more or less assures applicants that the math score makes no difference. My undergrad adviser (Princeton Ph.D.) told me that my math score would harm me only if I were in "the lowest two percent of the nation." My sense is that your math score does NOT have to be stellar for most schools to take you seriously; if it's average, or even a little below, that's probably fine. It just shouldn't be spectacularly bad. If it's good, it can't hurt, but if it's less than good, it won't be a problem (though that news about Northwestern surprises me; when the hell does an English Ph.D. candidate need math??)

Then again, I actually did well on the math (no idea how; I was guessing at random), so I'm not sure whether my score helped me get in anywhere. I'd be very surprised if it did, though.

[8521679]

There's a math section on the GRE?

[woolfie]

Also, some programs, for instance Florida State, require a minimum overall score (1000 for FSU). So while they don't necessarily care about the math specifically, the overall minimum score is affected by the math (obvs).

[wintergirl]

I have a related question to the original poster: I've been accepted to a masters program already, and plan to apply for a PhD (at a different school) in a couple of years. My GREs were surprisingly decent (based on how very little I studied) -- 710 V, 570 Q, and 5.5 AW. I was told the same thing by my program that the math score didn't even matter.

However, the programs I'm interested in for a PhD are much more selective that my masters program. I have been thinking that I should retake the GRE this spring/summer (before I start school) to up my math scores, which I understand can be done fairly easily with some studying. The head of my program told me not to bother, that my scores were fine for the schools I mentioned to her.

Should I go with my gut and retake them just in case that DOES make a difference? What have your experiences been? Any situations where you retook it and actually did WORSE?

Edited March 20, 2010 by bespeckled

[foppery]

May I ask where you're applying for a PhD? I'd tend to agree with your professor; 710 is a great verbal score, and 570 is far from a humiliating math score, especially for an English candidate. If you feel like you can get a higher verbal score, perhaps you should retake the GRE, but I don't think that a 570 in math will harm your chances. (If anyone knows more information, please do contradict me; I'm working on my nebulous impressions of grad-school admissions.)

I have a related question to the original poster: I've been accepted to a masters program already, and plan to apply for a PhD (at a different school) in a couple of years. My GREs were surprisingly decent (based on how very little I studied) -- 710 V, 570 Q, and 5.5 AW. I was told the same thing by my program that the math score didn't even matter.

However, the programs I'm interested in for a PhD are much more selective that my masters program. I have been thinking that I should retake the GRE this spring/summer (before I start school) to up my math scores, which I understand can be done fairly easily with some studying. The head of my program told me not to bother, that my scores were fine for the schools I mentioned to her.

Should I go with my gut and retake them just in case that DOES make a difference? What have your experiences been? Any situations where you retook it and actually did WORSE?

[BelleOfKilronen]

Bespeckled, though I'm sure there are exceptions, most folks seem to do better the second time around. I think just knowing what to expect gives you a bit of an edge.

That said, I would absolutely, positively not take it again unless one of the schools I was looking at had a funding cut-off that was above my combined score, or, like Northwestern, had minimum scores in each section. Though your prof said he thinks you'll be fine at the schools you're looking at, if it were me, it would ease my mind a bit to also contact the DGSs at my programs of interest and ask if the math score is taken into consideration, or if there is a cutoff combined score to be considered for school funding.

If what they say goes along with what your professor said, I would absolutely put the GRE out of my head and move on to my personal statement and writing sample. Your verbal score is great, and no one's going to care about your math GRE as long as you hit the requirements.

(Also, I hate the idea of ETS getting any more money than they have to. I shake my fist at ETS!)

Edited March 20, 2010 by BelleOfKilronen

[stillthisappeal]

So my question is: Is it worth spending extra time and effort trying to get my math score up to a decent level? I'm thinking this will take serious time and effort, given my current scores now... My verbal scores, while much better than my math scores, are definitely not perfect and I wonder if I should put more time and effort into memorizing vocabulary. I definitely wouldn't want to jeopardize my verbal score by spending too much time on the math section. Basically, which is more worth it: a really high verbal score that could increase the success of my application (though it's likely be paired with a dismal math score) OR an overall score that could help me get more funding? I guess first I should worry about getting in anywhere at all! I have less than a month before I have to take the test, so I don't have a lot of time to devote to studying at this point. Can anyone suggest an acceptable target score for the math section, not something impressive but just enough so that I could make the cut-off for funding opportunities? Any advice for how I should organize my studying time?

Thanks!

I would advise you to keep "benchmarks" in mind. Generally speaking, anything above a 650 on the verbal section will put you in good standing at schools that are outside of US News and World Report's top twenty programs. Anything above a 550 on the quantitative section will place you in a similar position. You might even find that those scores are good enough for stronger programs. If they have a cut off, most schools set it at 1000 or 1200.

And that's really all you need to know. As this forum reveals, there are plenty of instances where a program like Duke's rejects someone with a 1600 on the GRE and accepts another person with a 1200. The GRE is just one part (albeit a fairly important part) of the application.

As far as studying, I would recommend that you use a variety of test prep materials (remember: every book not produced by ETS is flawed in some way) and take as many practice tests as possible. You should also join or lurk on urch.com's forums (http://www.urch.com/forums/forum.php). They have a very handy section on the GRE.

Good luck.

[runonsentence]

My quick and general advice is yes, I'd definitely spend more time working on your verbal (and writing) scores than math.

Also, try not to let GRE scores stress you out too much. As others in this thread have said (but I feel it bears repeating), I can tell you that GREs are NOT the most important part of your application package. (Adcoms at my university divulged that they're usually the last thing considered; they may be a tie breaker if they have to decide between two strong students for one spot, or something.) In fact, I didn't meet the GRE benchmarks for either program that actively courted me with acceptances.

[Guimauvaise]

I know the GRE is changing this summer, but, still, don't worry about your math score. I scored somewhere in the lower 400s (can't remember the exact number), but I was still able to get a fellowship for my PhD because my English/writing scores were solid. If your school is anything like mine, they won't pay attention to your math score because it's not like you'll need anything beyond basic arithmetic as an English student.

[Protagonist]

Well, with one week left to go and a practice test giving me a 490Q I'm not worrying as much thanks to this thread and some more research I've done on the internet. Especially since I've been scoring around 650-700V on the practice tests I've taken so far, acceptable scores for me. I'm basically aiming for 90th percentile and hoping that the strength of my full application, which happens to be coming along pretty well, is enough to impress some schools. Though my lack of foreign language preparedness worries me a little, especially as a few of my professors made claims that I shouldn't worry about that until I'm in as I've got a full 2 years to prepare for testing in a language.

Anyway, at this point I'm just going to cram vocab and brush up more on my roots and prefixes, along with taking 2 full practice tests to get ready for the day.

Might have to retake with the new format... but at least I've given myself enough time to spend a good amount of time studying before I do that.

[xfgdfrmgpo332]

Good luck Protagonist (and all others taking the GRE this round). I'm in the same boat as you - taking it this Friday so I can have the "old" test. I'm also pretty worried about my math score.

Does anyone know if the more elite schools (say, top 10) care more about the your math score? It seems like they might, because it would give them another stat with which to pare down their absurdly astronomical number of applicants. Like, is there a real, substantial difference between, say, 550 and 680 on the math?

[Protagonist]

I took the first Powerprep practice test and ended up scoring a 630 in Math, haha, weird how Princeton Review gave me a 490. The verbal killed me though, I didn't know a lot of the words they were giving me and the sentence completion ended up being more complex than the practice questions I had just done. I got a 610. 87th percentile but still feels not high enough, even though I'm supposed to aim for around 90th.

We'll see what happens. After getting that score in Math though I just stopped caring about how to do it. I've been memorizing vocab instead and doing practice questions along with brushing up on how to use process of elimination on the test.

Here's hoping for something around where I've been scoring!

[wreckofthehope]

I took the first Powerprep practice test and ended up scoring a 630 in Math, haha, weird how Princeton Review gave me a 490. The verbal killed me though, I didn't know a lot of the words they were giving me and the sentence completion ended up being more complex than the practice questions I had just done. I got a 610. 87th percentile but still feels not high enough, even though I'm supposed to aim for around 90th.

We'll see what happens. After getting that score in Math though I just stopped caring about how to do it. I've been memorizing vocab instead and doing practice questions along with brushing up on how to use process of elimination on the test.

Here's hoping for something around where I've been scoring!

Anecdotally: I got a quantitative score in the high 400's and, although I didn't have a spectacular round, I was waitlisted at top 20 schools and accepted to an excellent (but lower ranked) school with full funding. So - make of that what you will. Personally, I don't believe my low quant had much, if any, impact on my admissions decisions.