Truett Theological seminary at Baylor Info

[landontynes]

Truett Theological Seminary at Baylor is one of the seminaries I’m looking at to get an M.Div. I’m wondering if anyone has feedback about Truett’s M.Div. program. Also, if I want to get a Ph.D. in New Testament or Biblical Studies, how well would Truett prepare me? Could I go straight from the M.Div at Truett into a good Ph.D. program (Baylor, PTS, Duke, etc)? Thanks for any feedback. 

[sacklunch]

As to whether they will prepare you for a good doctoral program, yes, they may very well. But that's different from being competitive. Spend some time looking over current doctoral students' backgrounds at good schools and see for yourself. You will find that most come from the usual suspects (i.e. not Truett). In short, the odds are against you, especially if you apply to NT programs (which have the highest number of applicants--and thus can be more competitive). If you can move, basically everyone on here will recommend you go somewhere with a better academic reputation. Again, if you have the means (funding), but need to stay local, you are better off getting an MA in religion, classics, and so on (though these programs are usually more competitive and assume a background in the relevant languages). For most seminaries, the MDiv is simply not designed to help you get into a "secular" doctoral program (or even places like PTS). It is the path followed by many, but only because of the fact that in the USA one's interest in "biblical" topics usually tracks closely with one's personal/religious/whatever commitments. While it's true that this close relationship often bleeds over into one's research interests at the doctoral level, a large part of what you learn/study in an MDiv is moot for many doctoral programs in religion/religious studies. There is, moreover, the additional fear from doctoral program committees at good schools that someone with an MDiv from Truett will be (too) theological and thus not "fit in"; and so on. An MDiv from a top school assuages at least some of those concerns (or at least it does so from the Christian faculty--many other faculty will remain skeptical that any seminary degree is appropriate preparation). /rant

[landontynes]

Thanks for the advice! So I have an undergrad degree in aerospace engineering with a 3.75 GPA. Also have 4 years of work experience since graduating from undergrad. Will I have a decent chance of getting in at somewhere like PTS or Yale Divinity School with my background?

[marXian]

4 minutes ago, landontynes said:

Thanks for the advice! So I have an undergrad degree in aerospace engineering with a 3.75 GPA. Also have 4 years of work experience since graduating from undergrad. Will I have a decent chance of getting in at somewhere like PTS or Yale Divinity School with my background?

Divinity schools and seminaries are not like traditional grad programs in that they are nowhere nearly as competitive to get into. YDS is, from my understanding more competitive than others, but still not as competitive as an MA program in classics, religion, etc. The latter usually only have, maybe say 10-40 students depending on the program, some maybe fewer than that. So even if a small number apply, they're filling a very small number of slots usually. That's not the case for seminaries and div schools who admit hundreds of students a year. 

The other thing is that seminaries and div schools don't generally assume a background in religion, especially for the MDiv. Now, if you're considering a concentrated MAR from YDS, you'd be in trouble probably. But you would definitely have a shot at MDiv programs at, say, Harvard, PTS, Duke, etc. At most of these schools, once you're in, it's possible to switch degree programs if you decide the MDiv isn't for you.

[landontynes]

Would you recommend any M.Div. programs in the southeast US? That’s where I’m located (Mississippi, near New Orleans, LA)

[marXian]

Chandler is probably the most well-known in that region, but it's in Atlanta (on Emory's campus.)

[Rabbit Run]

Duke Divinity, Candler School of theology (Emory), Vanderbilt Divinity, Perkins School of Theology (Southern Methodist Univeristy) for divinity schools.

UVA, UNC-Chapel Hill, and FSU have MA programs that might be of interest.

Edited July 6, 2018 by Rabbit Run

[sacklunch]

Why do you want an MDiv? Unless your reason is a) funding and/or b) interest in ministry, you should at least look into other degrees, many of which will be much better preparation for doctoral programs in biblical studies. Many on the forum (and outside of it) have asked these sorts of questions and many have ended up going to top seminaries--as Marx said even the "elite" seminaries have very high acceptance rates. But the vast majority never make it past the MDiv and I'm convinced this is largely because the MDiv is not made for people interested in continuing on to "secular" doctoral programs. The MDiv has too many requirements, too few electives, your classes will be large, and your language classes may be too focused on accommodating theological interests (without the necessary philological training required for basic "scholarly" work in biblical studies). These are some of the complaints I have heard from dozens of MDiv students from at least two elite seminaries. Again, if you meet a) and/or b) above, I understand your interest in the MDiv. If you need/want the MDiv and excluding the potential differences in funding, I suggest you target your search on a) reputation (the usual suspects); but just as importantly b) flexibility in the program (all MDiv's will require a lot of general coursework, while others less so). Because you have zero (right?) background in biblical studies you will have to play catch up--though you will likely feel like you can never catch up. Many students without any undergraduate coursework in religion and more importantly languages need a second M* to be competitive (or a ThM, and so on); and even this may not be enough! Story time. I have a good friend who was interested in biblical studies (NT) who did an MDiv at Emory. When said person finished they realized they didn't have enough language coursework to be competitive (had a lot of Greek, but no Hebrew/Aramaic and barely any German) and so they did an MTS at another well-known school. They still didn't get into any fully funded doctoral program even after 5 years of full time graduate work (they also had studied religion in college). I'm sure others on the forum have heard similar stories.

[notpartofyoursystem]

There's no magic formula to getting into a TT program in NT. So many qualified people apply for each spot that you're never guaranteed admission; there's definitely some luck involved. That said, of course there are better or worse things you can do to make you qualified in the first place. An MDiv from Truett would put you at a disadvantage because of its academic reputation. 

But I don't think the MDiv degree as a whole is disadvantageous. 

I'm currently in the NT PhD program at Duke. I'd say 60-70% of us (in NT, specifically) have MDivs; I'm one of them. Granted, these are almost entirely MDivs from big name schools. Especially if you're interested in teaching in a Christian context, I will always recommend the MDiv (at a big name school) over another master's degree to prepare you for a PhD in NT.  Why? 1) Cost: I have no debt from grad school, thanks to scholarships and generously funded internships. 2) The length of program: it gives you more time to build relationships with letter writers. You will have more course requirements than other M* students, but the extra year means the number of electives even out anyway (at least in my program). 3) Job opportunities: lots of people who think they want to do PhDs don't even end up applying. Interests change, the reality of the job market sets in, etc. An MDiv will prepare you to do more than just get a PhD. If it's at all appealing to you, you can become a pastor, work at a non-profit, be a hospital chaplain, etc.

Re: your chances of getting in to a big name school for an MDiv: I can only knowledgeably say this about Duke, but, yeah, you'll get in. Seminaries across the country are bleeding applicants right now. Admissions rates are incredibly high. Worry instead about being competitive enough to get a good scholarship.

Edited July 7, 2018 by notpartofyoursystem

[MarthUser]

Everyone already mentioned the disadvantages of an MDiv. I want to echo them.

However, I also want to highlight a key advantage of an MDiv: you're exposed to the various ways of potentially studying religion within a particular religious context. MDiv classes allowed me to sample all of them and to get a feel for which one I can truly invest time in.  I was originally interested in studying either the New Testament or some variation of the sociology of religion. However, I realized that I didn't have too much interest in either the language, ancient history, or archaeology that would help me get through the demands of the discipline. After taking a post-Reformation Church History courses, I realized that I really enjoyed reading through primary sources from the 18th century, more so than translating a text from Koine Greek. And so I ended up pursuing a PhD in American Religious History instead. 

An MDiv introduces you to the various disciplines that might be of interest to you. While you might be taking courses that won't necessarily interest you (I was not a big fan of ministry-related and ethics-heavy courses), you 're exposed to multiple disciplines so that you can make a more informed decision about which track you'd want to pursue in your PhD. In addition, you pick-up various skill-sets along the way that might help you in the future. I never thought a preaching class would be valuable until I've appreciated developing presentation/public-speaking skills when I'm presenting papers at conferences. Even though I'm studying 18th century U.S. history, the figures I'm studying are well-versed in their Greek and Hebrew, and so I can engage with them in ways other scholars in my field might not be able to. While an MDiv might disadvantage you from entering a PhD program directly, a ThM or STM (one year programs to supplement your PhD) readily provide you the research bulk you'll need to be competitive with PhD programs.