M.F.A. applying to PhD Rhet/Comp

[JAMIESEE]

I graduated with an M.F.A. in Creative Writing last year and am looking to apply to Rhet/Comp programs this Fall (for 2019). Does anyone have any useful tips, seeing as I am not coming from a rhetoric/composition background? I have been working as a professional writer and will also be adjuncting at a community college this Fall.

 

Thanks in advance for your advice!

[Warelin]

I think it's important to remember that most applicants aren't coming in with an MA in Rhet/Comp. However, there are some universities that heavily prefer applicants to have an MA in Rhet/Comp or have a very strong (class) background in Rhet/Comp. I think about what your interests are. Are they in Writing Center Administration? Writing Across the Curriculum? Technical Communication? Digital Humanities? Second Language Acquisition? Public Discourse?

Once you determine your interests, find articles on them. See whose writing you have an interest in. See where they work. See where they obtained their degree from. Research who has influenced their research and what organizations they are members of. Make note of if those institutions have a PhD program. Research those institutions and see if they have other people that you have an interest in. You'll notice a theme in places that might make good places that might be a good fit for you. Study their website and see if they mention anything about degrees. Rhet/Comp programs generally prefer a Master's program to be obtained prior to entering their PhD program. An MFA will count at most universities but I'd e-mail to be safe since there are some universities which heavily prefer you to have an MA in Rhet/Comp. Others might not consider an MFA to be equivalent.

An MFA is a terminal degree. Having teaching experience and an MFA, you'd be qualified to teach rhet/comp and creative writing at a number of universities provided that you also meet their other qualifications. What do you hope to gain from obtaining a PhD? I ask because there are some positions which would consider you to be overqualified if you have a PhD.

[JAMIESEE]

Thanks so much for your reply and that is all solid advice!

I am aware that an MFA is a terminal degree, but this previous year (with just TA teaching mind you) I applied to countless jobs, including community colleges. I was able to get adjunct positions but no full time. I was advised that a PhD is pretty much what you need since the job market is so terrible. (I have many short publications, but no book length ones yet so that may also be a factor).

In addition, I do honestly have some research interests (cognition and writing; circulation studies and writing across the curriculum) and I think the extra teaching experience and pedagogical support might do me some good. 

 

 

[Warelin]

4 hours ago, JAMIESEE said:

Thanks so much for your reply and that is all solid advice!

I am aware that an MFA is a terminal degree, but this previous year (with just TA teaching mind you) I applied to countless jobs, including community colleges. I was able to get adjunct positions but no full time. I was advised that a PhD is pretty much what you need since the job market is so terrible. (I have many short publications, but no book length ones yet so that may also be a factor).

In addition, I do honestly have some research interests (cognition and writing; circulation studies and writing across the curriculum) and I think the extra teaching experience and pedagogical support might do me some good. 

 

 

The job market is horrible and is unlikely to get better. A PhD alone won't help without getting in more publications and conferences. There's been a trend in hiring that a lot of places want you to have 1-2 books published. I just don't want you to go into this thinking that obtaining a PHD would guarantee you a teaching position. Rhet-Comp used to have a nearly 100 percent placement rate in Tenure and Non-Tenured positions in Academia. That number is significantly lower today.

Different universities use the word "TA" to mean different things. Were you the instructor of record? Did you have teaching evaluations? Places that are teaching-focused (which is to say 85-90 percent of universities) usually like to see a few years of stand alone teaching experience. In this essence, getting a Ph.D. might be immensely helpful but there are other ways of gaining that experience. Even with a degree, doing a post-doc or being an adjunct before landing a tenure-track position isn't uncommon.

[JAMIESEE]

1 hour ago, Warelin said:

The job market is horrible and is unlikely to get better. A PhD alone won't help without getting in more publications and conferences. There's been a trend in hiring that a lot of places want you to have 1-2 books published. I just don't want you to go into this thinking that obtaining a PHD would guarantee you a teaching position. Rhet-Comp used to have a nearly 100 percent placement rate in Tenure and Non-Tenured positions in Academia. That number is significantly lower today.

Different universities use the word "TA" to mean different things. Were you the instructor of record? Did you have teaching evaluations? Places that are teaching-focused (which is to say 85-90 percent of universities) usually like to see a few years of stand alone teaching experience. In this essence, getting a Ph.D. might be immensely helpful but there are other ways of gaining that experience. Even with a degree, doing a post-doc or being an adjunct before landing a tenure-track position isn't uncommon.

Thanks, and yes, I am aware of this reality too--I only think it may help my chances, but certainly not guarantee it. If anything, I am brutally honest with myself about the state of the job market, and I am doing things on several fronts to help. As far as TA, yes, I was responsible for my own classroom for two years, without observation, including grade, syllabus, etc.

[renea]

On 8/22/2018 at 2:49 PM, JAMIESEE said:

In addition, I do honestly have some research interests (cognition and writing; circulation studies and writing across the curriculum) and I think the extra teaching experience and pedagogical support might do me some good. 

I'm not going to comment here on whether or not you need or don't need a PhD to get a job, but I will say that if you're wanting to do rhet/comp with these research interests Miami University (of Ohio) would be a very good fit for you. 

It might be better to begin reaching out to programs and ask if seeking a PhD would be a good decision. Most of us (on this particular forum) are in the process of attaining a degree or applying, so we probably haven't been privy to hiring committee processes, but the programs you apply to will and they would better be able to tell you if a PhD will help or hurt you. 

[jrockford27]

I think the best way to figure out if you need a PhD to do the kind of work you want to do is to look at people who have the job you want and see what their educational background is. There are MFA holders who have tenure/tenure track positions in English programs at major universities. If your goal is to teach creative writing then maybe your best bet is to continue adjuncting while you work on building your profile? If your goal is to teach rhetoric/composition at the university level, then you'd certainly want to get a PhD if you want to be able to do that and have any security or a decent salary. 

If your approach, however, is that you aren't especially interested in research (the phrase, "I do honestly have some research interests" raised my eyebrow to this) you might want to really REALLY think about whether a PhD program is for you. Research is essentially the only thing you will be doing. While I have no doubt that some PhD students find time for creative pursuits, none of the MFAs I know who pursued a PhD (I know several) were able to continue their creative writing as anything more than a hobby during their program. That's not to say you shouldn't have hobbies, you absolutely should.  But if your goal is to continue your path as a non-scholarly author while pursuing your PhD, you will find yourself threading a needle with a very small head.

I've never wanted to be one of those grad students who tries to scare people away from doing a PhD, because they can be very rewarding, and I'm not trying to do that here.  But a PhD program is essentially five-to-eight years of research, and then writing in genres that are oriented toward disseminating that research more than anything else.

Edited September 6, 2018 by jrockford27

[Romanista]

On 8/22/2018 at 10:58 AM, JAMIESEE said:

I graduated with an M.F.A. in Creative Writing last year and am looking to apply to Rhet/Comp programs this Fall (for 2019). Does anyone have any useful tips, seeing as I am not coming from a rhetoric/composition background? I have been working as a professional writer and will also be adjuncting at a community college this Fall.

 

Thanks in advance for your advice!

I would check out Tim Mayers' work. He's the big name for bridging the fields of creative writing and comp rhet.