U. Chicago Masters unfunded

[gracieb]

So, naturally I assumed that I did not get into the University of Chicago, and I was partially right. I did not get into their PhD program, but I did get into their terminal masters program...unfunded. It would be a bad idea to do this right? I got into 2 other funded masters programs, FSU and Kansas. Obviously, they are nowhere near as prestigious as U. Chicago but is it worth the extremely large sum of money I will have to pay to attend? I'm kind of thinking that if I was able to get an acceptance from a school this good my first time around that after I get my Masters, pick up another language and improve my GRE score I bit that I could make it into a pretty good PhD program next time around...with funding. But then I wonder if getting my masters at Chicago would perhaps improve my chances of getting into their PhD program, making it worth the expense. I don't know. I really have no idea what I'm talking about though...I need advice. Help!

[Butitwaslaundryday]

So, naturally I assumed that I did not get into the University of Chicago, and I was partially right. I did not get into their PhD program, but I did get into their terminal masters program...unfunded. It would be a bad idea to do this right? I got into 2 other funded masters programs, FSU and Kansas. Obviously, they are nowhere near as prestigious as U. Chicago but is it worth the extremely large sum of money I will have to pay to attend? I'm kind of thinking that if I was able to get an acceptance from a school this good my first time around that after I get my Masters, pick up another language and improve my GRE score I bit that I could make it into a pretty good PhD program next time around...with funding. But then I wonder if getting my masters at Chicago would perhaps improve my chances of getting into their PhD program, making it worth the expense. I don't know. I really have no idea what I'm talking about though...I need advice. Help!

I wish I could help, but I'm wondering exactly the same thing! I also was accepted to MAPH (is that the program you were accepted into too?) I think if it's a good stepping stone for good PhD programs after, it would be worth the expense. However, I'm not sure if there is aw ay to know that for sure. I think it would probably be a good idea to ask about their PhD placement after the program. Good luck with your decisions!

[PaperChaser]

I wish I could help, but I'm wondering exactly the same thing! I also was accepted to MAPH (is that the program you were accepted into too?) I think if it's a good stepping stone for good PhD programs after, it would be worth the expense. However, I'm not sure if there is aw ay to know that for sure. I think it would probably be a good idea to ask about their PhD placement after the program. Good luck with your decisions!

Just my opinion (as a hugely indebted person...)

GO to MAPH if: 1. you don't have significant undergrad debt and/or 2. it's that or working in some shit job that will neither help you get a better job nor make your "year or so between application cycles" more meaningful and/or 3. you think you'd get a lot out of MAPH (I only know it by reputation) and that it would lead to a PhD admit or other acceptable career path.

Rethink it if: 1. you want to go somewhere SOOOO badly THIS year that you're overlooking many potential programs that would pay YOU to attend (but you have to find something else to do this year) and/or 2. you have other student debt/consumer debt. (I posted some info on bankruptcy elsewhere, but it is VERY hard to get student loans discharged! Don't think of bankruptcy as a legitimate option..just because you file for it does NOT mean you'll get it. It's highly complex and not something to use as a fallback plan for loans.) and/or 3. the program is a good but not great fit. The cost of living in Chicago isn't low, so...well, I guess I'm just reiterating #1!

In the end, it's your life. If you're fresh out of undergrad, you can always defer a year and think about it while you strengthen your other apps/get real world experience/travel/intern/whatever. If you're like me and it's about time to pick a career and STICK with it...well, you tell me!

[BelleOfKilronen]

Could you visit the school and talk with current MAPH students before you make your decision?

I have heard very mixed things from students in U. Chicago's MAPH program. Everyone is different, of course, and it may be a great place for you--and, likewise, the complaints I have heard might be unfounded-- but it would be horrible for you to turn down funded PhD offers to complete an MAPH degree in a program that you didn't like.

Just a thought. Good luck with your decision!

[yellowjackets]

This is like an annual event. There was a same thread like this a week ago:

You can find more threads.

Edited March 18, 2010 by yellowjackets

[gracieb]

Just my opinion (as a hugely indebted person...)

GO to MAPH if: 1. you don't have significant undergrad debt and/or 2. it's that or working in some shit job that will neither help you get a better job nor make your "year or so between application cycles" more meaningful and/or 3. you think you'd get a lot out of MAPH (I only know it by reputation) and that it would lead to a PhD admit or other acceptable career path.

Rethink it if: 1. you want to go somewhere SOOOO badly THIS year that you're overlooking many potential programs that would pay YOU to attend (but you have to find something else to do this year) and/or 2. you have other student debt/consumer debt. (I posted some info on bankruptcy elsewhere, but it is VERY hard to get student loans discharged! Don't think of bankruptcy as a legitimate option..just because you file for it does NOT mean you'll get it. It's highly complex and not something to use as a fallback plan for loans.) and/or 3. the program is a good but not great fit. The cost of living in Chicago isn't low, so...well, I guess I'm just reiterating #1!

In the end, it's your life. If you're fresh out of undergrad, you can always defer a year and think about it while you strengthen your other apps/get real world experience/travel/intern/whatever. If you're like me and it's about time to pick a career and STICK with it...well, you tell me!

See that's the thing, the other two places I was accepted were masters programs, but they were funded. I just don't know if doing an unfunded masters is such a hot idea. Le sigh, decisions. Thank you so much paper chaser, and everyone else for the feedback though, greatly appreciated!

[Sparky]

Go to FSU!!! Elaine Treharne and Nancy Warren! Learn from masters!

And in the summers, learn Latin, and apply again for PhDs in two years. You will be a much, much stronger candidate for medieval.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Sparky

[greekdaph]

Check out last year's thread for a very detailed discussion. I learned from that thread that Chicago is less rather than more likely to accept MAPH applicants for their PhD program. Also, the prestige of the MA program matters far, far less for PhD admissions than the quality of the SOP and writing sample you produce in that program. If U of C is where you think you can do your best work, it's worth considering seriously. But many students at top PhD programs got their MAs from far less prestigious schools--and, often, were funded and didn't support a cash cow program while doing it.

[strokeofmidnight]

Daphna is spot-on here. The "prestige" (for whatever it's worth) isn't worth paying tuition for--especially if you have two funded MA offers already. If Chicago is really a perfect fit for you: fantastic professors working in your field, a methodological approach that is conducive to you, it may be worth the expense...even then, I'd caution you to consider it very carefully. MA students--particularly unfunded ones, at programs with a funded PhD cohort--often do not receive the same level of attention as their PhD counterparts. (My partner paid for his MA. His thesis director barely met with him, and rare--if ever--read his work. He did well in the application process anyway, but it certainly wasn't from the one-on-one attention he [didn't] receive). Obviously, this isn't true of every program and every professor, but it's a factor to consider and investigate closely if you have the chance to visit.

The name on your diploma will never get you in. It's what you learn while earning it that counts (seriously!).

It's also worth noting, I think that "prestige" works differently for MA than for BA degrees. (And even then, the name on your BA diploma won't determine your fate). Most of the MA's-holders that I know of currently in top PhD programs came from "less prestigious" programs...though prestige is tricky, since it varies by subfield, and is very hard to evaluate for programs that only have terminal MA's (and therefore are not in the rankings to begin with). What is a "quality" MA program is far less clear-cut, and far more geared towards particular fields/methodologies...basically, the usual associations that we have towards the school's name is less reliable. Rather focus on prestige, look at the training instead. Will this program give you the training, resources, attention, etc...that you need to be competitive on the PhD market? (you might also want to inquire into their PhD "placement" rates). Is it a good fit for your work?

Edited March 18, 2010 by strokeofmidnight

[gracieb]

Go to FSU!!! Elaine Treharne and Nancy Warren! Learn from masters!

And in the summers, learn Latin, and apply again for PhDs in two years. You will be a much, much stronger candidate for medieval.

Haha, is that where you're going Sparky? That is where I went to undergrad. I absolutely love Nancy Warren, she helped me through this entire process, she is my mentor and role model. I can't say enough nice things about her. I'm sure that is what I'm going to do now. Thanks so much everyone for your input , I really appreciate it!

[Pamphilia]

Haha, is that where you're going Sparky? That is where I went to undergrad. I absolutely love Nancy Warren, she helped me through this entire process, she is my mentor and role model. I can't say enough nice things about her. I'm sure that is what I'm going to do now. Thanks so much everyone for your input , I really appreciate it!

Right on, sounds like you're all set! As such, this response might be a little late, but I thought it might be relevant to someone else considering U of C's MAPH. So, I know that the program is a Masters in the Humanities, not in English or in Literature. You concentrate where you want, I'm sure--but how much access do you have really to the English department (in terms of faculty, resources, etc.)? This sort of echoes what Strokeofmidnight was saying about getting attention from faculty, but it seems even dicier in this case because an MAPH student has even another degree of separation from the English department (or Comp Lit, or whatever).

Disclaimer: My suspicions here might be completely unfounded. For all I know, as an MAPH student you might be welcomed into your chosen department with open arms. Most of my knowledge of this program is limited to the hearsay I've read on these boards.

[woolfie]

You should DEFINITELY go to the funded programs, and NOT Chicago. 1. Because I have heard nothing but bad things about the MAPH. 2. Your terminal master's degree doesn't matter as far as prestige of school. I know someone who got her MA from Sacramento State and she got into OSU's phd program and I've heard that that happens alot. 3. A funded terminal MA program is a lucky thing to have. You will be funded while you get a clear picture of what you want to do in a phd program, get a great writing sample, make connections, etc and you will be fully prepared next time around to apply to top tier phd programs. GO TO THE FUNDED PROGRAMS.

[PaperChaser]

You should DEFINITELY go to the funded programs, and NOT Chicago. 1. Because I have heard nothing but bad things about the MAPH. 2. Your terminal master's degree doesn't matter as far as prestige of school. I know someone who got her MA from Sacramento State and she got into OSU's phd program and I've heard that that happens alot. 3. A funded terminal MA program is a lucky thing to have. You will be funded while you get a clear picture of what you want to do in a phd program, get a great writing sample, make connections, etc and you will be fully prepared next time around to apply to top tier phd programs. GO TO THE FUNDED PROGRAMS.

Ditto. FWIW, one of my best friends went to Florida and was happy as a clam. (Who wouldn't be? It's warm 80% of the year! Chicago has great food....but is really cold and windy!) You're already lucky to have more than one FUNDED offer! So go be the big fish in the good-sized pond..Woolfie is right, you'll be totally prepared for round 2. From my own experience, going from a BA to MA (rather than PhD) and having law school barfingly intervene didn't "slow" me down, it just gave me time and perspective to KNOW what I wanted from a PhD program. I'd strongly second taking a funded offer if you think you can pursue your interests at either of those schools

[gloryjones]

Do not do this in order to get into a PhD program "the next time around". It's possible, but consider a metaphor for the MAPH that I found:

"I wrote a book and sent it around to all the major publishers. None of them wanted to publish it, but HarperCollins wrote me back and said that their self-publishing imprint, HarperVanity, would publish the book if I would assume all production and marketing costs. This would cost about 100k. They didn't say that this would make it more likely that they'd publish my next effort, but it probably would. Should I do it?"

[woolfie]

Also, a former professor of mine from Indiana University referred to this program as "a scam." I think that's pretty damning.

Though I do know one person who did the program, while supported by her parents, and she got a great job at the u of c press. So that worked out for her, but only because she had parents to support her. The only way I think that program would be a good idea is if you didn't get in anywhere that was funded and you can't afford to wait another year, or you are a richie rich with rich parents who just see "university of Chicago" and think it's a great idea.

[Butitwaslaundryday]

Also, a former professor of mine from Indiana University referred to this program as "a scam." I think that's pretty damning.

Though I do know one person who did the program, while supported by her parents, and she got a great job at the u of c press. So that worked out for her, but only because she had parents to support her. The only way I think that program would be a good idea is if you didn't get in anywhere that was funded and you can't afford to wait another year, or you are a richie rich with rich parents who just see "university of Chicago" and think it's a great idea.

Not to be a contrarian, but I haven't heard only bad things about University of Chicago. For example, a lot of intellectual output comes from there--specifically from the U of Chicago Press. There are a lot of great professors you would get a chance to work with, and the U of Chicago's literary intellectual output is really well-respected in the literary community. Some friends of mine went to the MAPH program and really enjoyed the experience. I would recommend visiting and asking the questions you are most concerned about (for example, would you get the chance to work with those great professors? can you get involved with the university of chicago press? what resources are open to you? and again, can they tell you their PhD placements after the MAPH program?) I think that's what I'll do. As for funding, this is what I would recommend you do, if you have the guts to do it! I know that they give out some funding (at most half-funding) to some MAPH students. That means that when those students reject the MAPH program, some of that money will be open to other MAPH students. I would suggest emailing them and asking very politely if it would be possible to be considered for funding, if and when the opportunity arises, since you already have fully funded offers from other universities. What's the worst that could happen? They won't take back your acceptance.

G'luck with your decision.

[heliogabalus]

In the early years of the decade I was in a pretty good Language and Lit PhD program--never finished, still kicking myself--but from what I gathered there a funded MA from anywhere was much more prestigious than an unfunded MA from even the most prestigious universities in a subject as nebulous as "humanities." (An unfunded MA in area studies might have been looked at differently, but I'm not so sure.)

Keep in mind that professors in the humanities are underpaid, so they usually are impressed more by the money you got to study somewhere than where you were studying.

I remember talking to Classics professors about grad school (probably 10-12 years ago) and they would all say, The top programs are Harvard, Berkeley, Princeton, Michigan with UNC, Cornell, and Texas up there too, but if you can, go to UCLA because they're giving away money.

With Medieval studies, the top program in North America was always University of Toronto, but professors pushed Notre Dame because of the funding packages.

Go with the money.

When you apply for PhD programs, you'll put the name of your MA institution and underneath it you'll put your fellowship/prize/whatever. Kansas or FSU with a fellowship definitely looks better than the MAPH that you shelled out $50,000 for. It would probably be more financially sound to just offer a $10,000 bribe to the head of the department you want to do your PhD at.

The MAPH might help you with PhD admissions, because you'll do more work, could pick up another language, and have time to revise your application. But you'll get the same and more from a funded non-scammy MA program.

Finally, look at it this way: Kansas and FSU are willing to pay you because they want you to study with them. Chicago wants you to pay them so they can take that money and kick it towards their PhD students: the people they really want to have study with them.

[heliogabalus]

Not to be a contrarian, but I haven't heard only bad things about University of Chicago.

I think people draw big distinctions between the various PhD programs at Chicago and the MAPH. Chicago=prestigious; MAPH=scam.

Edited March 20, 2010 by heliogabalus

[heliogabalus]

Sorry I sound like such a prick about the MAPH. I'm sure there are some great things about it, and outside of academia the MAPH from U.Chicago is going to look impressive as hell. Inside academia...not so much.

[Kursty]

A friend who goes to UChicago for a terminal masters (unfunded) in International Relations but does work in the History, PoliSci, and Sociology says that the no one--not the administration, not the profs, not the proper PhD students--take the MAPH kids seriously. They're basically considered cash cows helping pay the huge salaries.

Not to say that you can't do good work there, or 'go places' with it, but for how much it costs, it's probably cheaper to just drop out work for a year, move to a foreign country, master the language, really work on your Writing Sample and SOP, and maybe take a few extra grad courses at a local university. Jus' sayin'.

[wheel_of_fire]

I did my undergrad at Chicago and know friends in the MAPH program. Everyone I know had a good academic experience, and I don't think any one of them felt that professors treated them differently from PhD students. You may not be able to participate in some of the workshop opportunities, though. Those are usually reserved for advanced PhD students. You also have to work harder than PhD students in coursework--while PhD students get paper extensions well into the summer, MAPH students have to turn in their essays (along with the undergrads) at the end of each quarter during finals week.

One of the best things about the MAPH program is the opportunity to get strong recommendations from professors who are at the top of their fields. I do think that recommendations are often the deciding factor in final rounds of admissions selections, so having strong recommendations can't hurt.

The program culminates in a final masters thesis, about 30 pages, just the right length for a polished graduate writing sample. If you do pick MAPH, the program would provide an opportunity for you to produce an updated writing sample and have your adviser then write a strong letter of recommendation in support of your application.

[foppery]

Fair enough, but are strong recommendations and a polished writing sample worth $40,000? If money is no object, maybe. But very few people can afford to pay that much for a one-year master's degree. I, along with everyone else in the world, was admitted to the MAPH, and I received a frankly insulting email telling me that I should choose the MAPH because a Ph.D. program would offer me "no reasonable hope of a future." Because taking out $40,000 in loans for a terminal MA would promise me a brilliant future.

Luckily, I had three Ph.D. acceptances, so I was never tempted to take Chicago up on an offer that seemed more like a slap in the face. I still respect the U of C and its English department, but the MAPH business left a bad taste in my mouth. Go if you can afford it, I suppose, but it seems like a bad idea otherwise.

I did my undergrad at Chicago and know friends in the MAPH program. Everyone I know had a good academic experience, and I don't think any one of them felt that professors treated them differently from PhD students. You may not be able to participate in some of the workshop opportunities, though. Those are usually reserved for advanced PhD students. You also have to work harder than PhD students in coursework--while PhD students get paper extensions well into the summer, MAPH students have to turn in their essays (along with the undergrads) at the end of each quarter during finals week.

One of the best things about the MAPH program is the opportunity to get strong recommendations from professors who are at the top of their fields. I do think that recommendations are often the deciding factor in final rounds of admissions selections, so having strong recommendations can't hurt.

The program culminates in a final masters thesis, about 30 pages, just the right length for a polished graduate writing sample. If you do pick MAPH, the program would provide an opportunity for you to produce an updated writing sample and have your adviser then write a strong letter of recommendation in support of your application.