Job Market Considerations

[PaperChaser]

Ok, so like pretty much everyone else on here, I have unanswered questions and conflicting feelings. Here are my options, so if anyone wants to weigh in....I'm totally unable to ponder a decision.

***Reapplication is NOT an option, so it's this year, defer to next year, or never. I am not in a position to take out any more than subsidized Stafford loans.***

1. U of Louisville (full funding). Upsides: engaged faculty, best stipend, low cost of living, nice grad students, good placement rate for my discipline (Rhet/Comp), 4 year program. Downsides: icky campus, sketchy housing options, only one faculty member who really interests me, very far away from ANY friends/family, have to teach summers. Total funding: $80k over 4 years. Would have to take KY bar exam.

2. South Carolina (TA-ship, renewable for 5 years). Upsides: larger program so more options for my weird interests, lots of faculty I'd like to work with, decent campus, have some friends there and family not SO far. Downsides: minimal options for teaching anything other than Freshman Comp, shitty stipend, medium cost of living (to be near campus), grad director not terribly friendly to new admits. Total funding: $60k over 5 years. Would have to take SC bar exam.

3. VA Tech (no funding). Upsides: would take 27 credits from my MA and JD (thus making it a 3 year program...), NO language requirement, probably the best fit for my interests, lots of opportunities to teach in pre-law program. Downsides: NO FUNDING, semi-rural campus, new program (no alumni), no promises. Total funding: probably nothing, so out of state tuition for 3 years. Would have to take VA bar exam.

4. University of NC-Greensboro. Upsides: I'm already in GSO, I could skip the funding (since in-state tuition is VERY cheap) and keep working but defer my law school loans, decent placement stats, nice new building/renovated campus. Downsides: Dept not really on the ball, not a flagship school, wouldn't get credit for any previous coursework because it's "too old." (2005!) Total funding: $69kish for 5(?) years OR my job ($300k/5 yrs) minus tuition (about $20k total for 5 years).

I really don't know what to do. I feel like leaving a good job in this economy is really stupid IF I can make the local program work. I don't know that I am guaranteed continued legal employment indefinitely, but if I got let go, I could go to school full time at UNCG and finish sooner. I feel like getting 4-6 years of legal experience while getting a PhD may be the best use of my time and funds, but...I don't know.

Ideas?

[yellowjackets]

I'd choose #4. The reputation of a school doesn't matter in rhetoric/comp. It's more about what you can do.

[Paperclip]

You have some serious loans to repay, right? The most sensible thing to do is accept #4 and defer for a year. Additionally, I'd make a very tight budget with the help of a friend I trust to keep my best interests in mind, and live the most frugal year of my life.

After this frugal year, I'd have knocked off a considerable chunk of my debt (and therefore lowered my stress levels). Then I'd find myself making the best use of the resources ($ and time) I had available, and start graduate studies with little stress, knowing I made the most responsible decisions I was able to make with what was available to me at the time while still going after my dreams.

You're still living according to your priorities and taking risks with your life, but you're reducing the risks and stress as best you can (which makes for a more pleasant and productive grad experience).

[strokeofmidnight]

I'm not in Rhet/Comp, and am not quite familiar with the bar exams. How do they effect your chances of finding a job? Is there one state that you'd prefer? Any that you'd want to avoid? Do you have access to placement rates at other programs (besides #4?) And--perhaps this is the very question that you are asking--how important is prestige/going to a flagship program for getting a the sort of job that you want?

[woolfie]

Wait, you're saying you are going to keep working a full time job while getting a phd (with option 4)?? Everyone's different, but if it were me, I would die from stress. I did my BA while working full time and it was too much. I would pick option 1. Especially since I think Louisville is a great town and that school is decent.

[hopefulJ2010]

door number 1!

[PaperChaser]

I have to say, Louisville IS a great school for people whose interests at least partially align with the faculty and students there. Unfortunately, when I went up there for the grad weekend, it just WASN'T a fit. I feel soooooooo guilty saying that, because everyone was SO nice and it was SUCH a good offer, but I'm going to do the PhD thing to pursue my bizarre little course of research interests, and none of the faculty were even conversant in legal rhetoric. (Not that many non-law school profs are...) It would be a wonderful program for anyone who wanted a lot of hands-on administrative experience, and I got the impression PhD candidates were by no means limited to teaching Comp 101. I have nothing negative to say about Louisville (except that the buildings left a bit to be desired, but there was a horrendous flood a year or so ago) and would HIGHLY recommend it. It just wasn't a close enough match for my interests and, to be totally honest, it's just a bit too far away from home for me.

Bar exam-not related to Rhet/Comp. I have to pass it to be a licensed lawyer (in addition to getting a JD)-if I move out of state, I'd have to take ANOTHER one. The "cheap" states are about $1500 for the prep course and $800 to take the exam, so.....it's definitely a consideration for me to stay in-state..

THANK YOU ALL for your advice. I really, really, really appreciate the opinions of people who have nothing to gain or lose from my choice...disinterested parties do tend to offer the most honest opinions!

[PaperChaser]

Wait, you're saying you are going to keep working a full time job while getting a phd (with option 4)?? Everyone's different, but if it were me, I would die from stress. I did my BA while working full time and it was too much. I would pick option 1. Especially since I think Louisville is a great town and that school is decent.

Yeah, I'll have to work full time. (That said, my firm is not a "2200 hours of billable time a year or you DIE" type firm!) I worked full time undergrad, grad, and (gasp, yes, illegally!) during law school. It's just never been an option for me NOT to work---not married, NO even upper-middle class family members to help in a pinch. Luckily I've almost always met the income guidelines for free or reduced health services, which helps out some. (The cancerous moles on my back aren't going anywhere....) I don't buy stuff I can't afford (iPhone....I'll wait till the firm picks up the tab) and if I have to replace a capital asset (car, computer), I either save up to pay in full or haggle until the price is doable. I've gotten screwed worse by ne-er-do-well roommates than anything else, so I think I'll have to resign myself to living alone without cable if it means cutting out an unreliable person who will guilt trip me because I have better credit. (Um, that would be because I pay my bills instead of squandering my ENTIRE student loan check in 2 months!) Oops, sorry to rant.

Working has its upsides...worst case scenario, I lose my job and can go to school full time. Or vice versa. I've always been the "better in real life than on paper" type, so working has been more helpful than stressful. Stressful for me would be sending out job applications and having to put my embarrassingly low UGPA and non-prestigious schools on it! No one would hire me based on the education section of my resume, so I have to keep the employment part pretty solid.

Plus, I secretly sort of like suing scumbags.

[wordslinger]

Hi there!

I'm sorry to hear you won't be coming to Louisville; that's where I'm headed for certain. But I definitely get your concerns.

Just to chime in, I have several friends at UNC-G who seem happy the courses and the program; plus, it seems to be well within your comfort zone. I did my undergrad at USC and really loved it. I can't say I know much about the current comp/rhet program though. Columbia is a terrific, livable city, and there are many cheap housing options, especially if you are willing to commute to campus. (Which you'll probably want to do anyway.) If you do want any info about USC or Columbia that I can provide, please let me know!

Good luck!

[rising_star]

What kind of employment do you want after you finish your PhD? If you want to work in Rhet/Comp as a professor, you're probably going to need some teaching experience. So, if that's your goal, you should probably pursue one of the PhD options that lets you gain teaching experience.

Would it be possible for you to continue working for the same firm but work remotely? That would eliminate the studying and need to take another bar exam potentially. Plus, would you really have the time to take another bar exam if you are working and going to school full-time? My sister is a lawyer, and spent 2+ months studying in the evenings after work to take the bar that she just took in Feb (and that was her third one! she's moved a bit).

[PaperChaser]

What kind of employment do you want after you finish your PhD? If you want to work in Rhet/Comp as a professor, you're probably going to need some teaching experience. So, if that's your goal, you should probably pursue one of the PhD options that lets you gain teaching experience.

Would it be possible for you to continue working for the same firm but work remotely? That would eliminate the studying and need to take another bar exam potentially. Plus, would you really have the time to take another bar exam if you are working and going to school full-time? My sister is a lawyer, and spent 2+ months studying in the evenings after work to take the bar that she just took in Feb (and that was her third one! she's moved a bit).

You know, I've been staring at two nearly (but not quite!) identical packages of semi-permanent hair dye - while simultaneously watching the NCAA tournament - and realize that 99% of the problem is that I can't make a decision. I'm completely paralyzed by the possibility of....permanency...of any choice I make. Do I throw away 3 years of law school and 2.5 at the same firm? Do I become one of the many young women who go to law school, start work, and then quit because it's not particularly female friendly and I'd rather do something where I'm occasionally praised? Am I crazy to pass up a good job at a reputable firm (two things that are often mutually exclusive in the law) because I'd rather have summers off? The economy is SO bad, and I literally have NO savings after going to law school. If I went to a PhD program - even my best offer - a car accident or major illness would totally bankrupt me.

I worked full time during undergrad, my MA, and 25+ hours a week during law school. I can definitely work and do school; I'm just not sure I'm comfortable enough with my employment prospects if I only do ONE. What if I don't do the PhD then get fired? What if I ditch the job and hate the PhD and then can't find a job? It seems like working myself to death by doing both is the only way I can (in my own little OCD way) convince myself that I've done absolutely everything I can to ensure employment.

If money were no option (or if I were married to someone who had a job that could support us both, or had wealthy relatives or SOMETHING), I'm pretty sure I'd choose the job that gave me flexibility, something resembling self-esteem, and summers off to keep from burning out. I guess I have two weeks to decide if the greedy devil on my shoulder or the angel will win---either way, they''re both pretty scared of making a huge mistake.....

[PaperChaser]

You know, I've been staring at two nearly (but not quite!) identical packages of semi-permanent hair dye - while simultaneously watching the NCAA tournament - and realize that 99% of the problem is that I can't make a decision. I'm completely paralyzed by the possibility of....permanency...of any choice I make. Do I throw away 3 years of law school and 2.5 at the same firm? Do I become one of the many young women who go to law school, start work, and then quit because it's not particularly female friendly and I'd rather do something where I'm occasionally praised? Am I crazy to pass up a good job at a reputable firm (two things that are often mutually exclusive in the law) because I'd rather have summers off? The economy is SO bad, and I literally have NO savings after going to law school. If I went to a PhD program - even my best offer - a car accident or major illness would totally bankrupt me.

I worked full time during undergrad, my MA, and 25+ hours a week during law school. I can definitely work and do school; I'm just not sure I'm comfortable enough with my employment prospects if I only do ONE. What if I don't do the PhD then get fired? What if I ditch the job and hate the PhD and then can't find a job? It seems like working myself to death by doing both is the only way I can (in my own little OCD way) convince myself that I've done absolutely everything I can to ensure employment.

If money were no option (or if I were married to someone who had a job that could support us both, or had wealthy relatives or SOMETHING), I'm pretty sure I'd choose the job that gave me flexibility, something resembling self-esteem, and summers off to keep from burning out. I guess I have two weeks to decide if the greedy devil on my shoulder or the angel will win---either way, they''re both pretty scared of making a huge mistake.....

FINALLY decided! Going part-time (in-state so dirt cheap) and keeping my law firm job. I can always flip flop, right?