Looking at the lottery of philosophy jobs

[Duns Eith]

Hey all,

I am looking long and hard at the academic situation we're facing.

I've known for years that it is hard to get a job in the humanities, especially philosophy. I don't need to spell out the dire situation of the job market, but the worry that each year PhD-holding applicants with publications are passed over is perennial and staggering. There were only 228 tenure-track jobs last year. And prestige matters: the top 20 PGR accounts for 60% of all hires, and even then schools like University of Michigan (PGR #4 in US) can only place 20% of their grads. (UC Berkeley is another story: they place about 60% of theirs, even though they have a lower PGR rank, five-way tied for #9)

So, it makes it difficult to stomach. It's ridiculously hard to get a job unless you jump through all the hoops, at the right places, at the right time, in the right way.

 

I admit, I'm kind of griping because I am at a little-known, mediocre-funding PhD program.

 

But here's the deal, I have teaching experience, I am likely to be published soon, I am doing well in my courses, I am fairly confident in what I want to write my prospectus on (a year or so ahead of when it is expected), and I'm very invested.

 

I want to teach. I'm not even aiming for the elusive tenure-track research position. I don't even want it. I just want to be well-paid and teach excellently in college(s) for the rest of my life.

 

My worry is that I could do everything right, and strike out. (original link broken, I needed to use web-archive) ... It isn't just about how hard you work, and how badly you want it. You may have teaching experience, publications in various tiered journals, and teach as an adjunct at different schools (dancing on the precipice above adjunct hell), but you might get NEVER get a tenure track job, provide for your family, buy a house, settle down.

 

... How do you face the grim prospects? How do you process this? is there a way to justify this decision-theoretically, or is every grad student merely gambling 6-8 years of their lives with odds about as good as craps? (of course, your success is conditional on many variables, and thus more like blackjack; I have heretofore been aggressively pursuing each)

If you aren't worried, can you identify your school or school's PGR ranking?

How are you reasoning through this as a good decision?

[Duns Eith]

Oh, and for those who see right through these questions and realize the psychological/emotional life behind this, some encouragement would be sincerely appreciated. I have been considering leaving the academic/teaching path for a year now (but finish the PhD), but I got to teach students face-to-face last night for the first time in 6+ months and it was a deep reminder this is why I am in this program. But all this is lost if merit and perseverance find the enduring reward only after a favorable coin-flip.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Duns Eith

[hector549]

2 hours ago, Duns Eith said:

My worry is that I could do everything right, and strike out. (original link broken, I needed to use web-archive) ... It isn't just about how hard you work, and how badly you want it. You may have teaching experience, publications in various tiered journals, and teach as an adjunct at different schools (dancing on the precipice above adjunct hell), but you might get NEVER get a tenure track job, provide for your family, buy a house, settle down.

 

... How do you face the grim prospects? How do you process this? is there a way to justify this decision-theoretically, or is every grad student merely gambling 6-8 years of their lives with odds about as good as craps? (of course, your success is conditional on many variables, and thus more like blackjack; I have heretofore been aggressively pursuing each)

If you aren't worried, can you identify your school or school's PGR ranking?

How are you reasoning through this as a good decision?

I made the decision to do this after doing other jobs for a number of years that were less than satisfying for me. I have a hard time really putting time and effort into a job that I don't really think is important. I did the jobs I had well, even when I didn't like them of course, but I realized that I probably wouldn't be able to compel myself to build a good career doing something I don't believe in. Many (or most) people don't have this aversion, I think.

I reached a point where I realized I would just keep drifting through life, doing work I didn't really want to do, and not sticking with my work because it didn't mean anything to me, and that if I did so, I'd regret not doing what I wanted to do. I decided that I had nothing to lose by continuing to study philosophy, and that even if I didn't get a TT job after, at least I tried my best to do the thing that I thought was really actually important and meaningful for me to do, and that I believe in. So ultimately, I'll do everything I can to get a job, and if it doesn't work out, then I'll move on and program computers or I'll try to go work in government or--hell, I'll wait tables again or something--but at least I'll know that first I did the thing that I believe in, and tried my best to make it work.

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by hector549

[hector549]

2 hours ago, Duns Eith said:

Oh, and for those who see right through these questions and realize the psychological/emotional life behind this, some encouragement would be sincerely appreciated. I have been considering leaving the academic/teaching path for a year now (but finish the PhD), but I got to teach students face-to-face last night for the first time in 6+ months and it was a deep reminder this is why I am in this program. But all this is lost if merit and perseverance find the enduring reward only after a favorable coin-flip.

I get it. Wanting some stability and a future you can count on can be a really important thing. And I realize that I'm a couple of years behind you in terms of how close you are to finishing the degree, and so on. But if you think you can finish the degree in a reasonable amount of time, you're not too financially stressed, and you're still enjoying the work you do, then why not see it through? You could be in a job you don't much care for right now anyway, and have to leave after a couple of years to make a career change. Maybe it's better to think of a PhD program like a job with a five-ish year contract (that you can of course leave early), that pays poorly, but is (hopefully mostly) rewarding to you in terms of the fulfillment you get from the work itself.

2 hours ago, Duns Eith said:

 

I admit, I'm kind of griping because I am at a little-known, mediocre-funding PhD program.

 

 

Again, I'm not in your particular situation right now. But I turned down a ranked PhD program last year and totally realize that I may end up at an unranked program this year (applying out of my MA). While this freaks me out on one level, part of me cares more about doing the kind of work I want to do than about ranking anyway. As you said, even the UMichigan grads are suffering. We're all in the same boat. If you're enjoying the work you're doing, feel like you're getting the kind of mentorship you want from faculty, and that you're getting a good philosophical education, these are more important than the rank of the program. We're all f*cked anyway with respect to employment. Not having enough funding, though, is a different story...

[maxhgns]

9 hours ago, hector549 said:

I reached a point where I realized I would just keep drifting through life, doing work I didn't really want to do, and not sticking with my work because it didn't mean anything to me, and that if I did so, I'd regret not doing what I wanted to do. I decided that I had nothing to lose by continuing to study philosophy, and that even if I didn't get a TT job after, at least I tried my best to do the thing that I thought was really actually important and meaningful for me to do, and that I believe in. So ultimately, I'll do everything I can to get a job, and if it doesn't work out, then I'll move on and program computers or I'll try to go work in government or--hell, I'll wait tables again or something--but at least I'll know that first I did the thing that I believe in, and tried my best to make it work.

That's pretty much my attitude as well. I knew going in to my PhD that I'd probably not find a job (even if I didn't wholly believe it, or understand quite how bad the situation has become). So I didn't really approach the PhD as a means to some other end, and just did it for its own sake/for myself. That may not be enough to get you all the way, but it takes you a good chunk of it, and helps to avoid bitterness. I don't regret any part of my PhD (well, apart from not reporting my harasser sooner). I did my PhD at a ranked Canadian institution that's tops in my subfield, but at the bottom of the international PGR. I'm sure that's not helped on the job front, but I still think it was the right decision for me. 

There are three things that get me down: (1) the attitude some (many, actually) job seekers and former job seekers adopt as a result of their own difficulties, which is downright nasty and seeks to allot blame for their situation, (2) the total lack of interviews (like, you can send out 100+ applications around the world, and get zero interviews), and (3) all the people (especially in my subfield) I've seen leaving philosophy despite their tremendous talent, because they can't really afford a gap year (financially, or professionally).

I may leave the profession after this year, unless I manage to get some kind of employment (I might also tough it out a cycle; we'll see). It's too bad, because it turns out that I'm very good at the research portion of the job, and I think I'm a decent teacher, too. I'm totally killing it, professionally. But the only reason I'm doing so well is because I got a cushy two-year postdoc that gave me the resources, space, and time to develop and publish the things I'd been working on, and to plump up the rest of my CV. I had zero interviews for 100+ applications in 17 countries the year I got my postdoc (and one VAP interview for the same stats the year before). That same year, several excellent new scholars in my subfield--people who are straight-up better than me--also got zero interviews. But they had to leave the profession, because there was no postdoc waiting for them. And I know so many others who are so, so good, but who are ground down by their part-time teaching loads and can't get any of their own work done and out there. I've been incredibly lucky. If I've learned anything from my postdoc, it's how much of a difference teaching-free and no-strings-attached research time (post-PhD) can make. And it makes me sad that most people never get any.

 

[dgswaim]

Just a clarificatory note: You said (per the link to Leiter's blog) that Michigan is only placing 20% of their grads. The figure from Leiter is actually that Michigan is placing 20% of their students into PhD-granting institutions. I feel quite confident that the percentage of students placed into full-time jobs at colleges of all kinds is quite a bit higher.

Edited October 11, 2018 by dgswaim

[Xia1]

I'm just doing an MA right now, but it certainly helps me to just affirm--every day--that there is no guarantee of employment post education, and being OK with that. I've simply given up on the idea that I am 100% in control of the results of my education and job search. That's life. And frankly, I think that outlook is healthier than the alternative. First, it's more in line with reality; and second, it takes a lot of the pressure off in a way. It's a gamble we have to take in pursuing a job in higher ed. And so, 

On 10/9/2018 at 7:45 PM, Duns Eith said:

but you might get NEVER get a tenure track job, provide for your family, buy a house, settle down.

Besides the TT job, your other worries are bunk. Philosophers, for all their faults, are smart (as a general trend). You were talented enough to gain admission to a doctoral program in philosophy, you are more than capable of providing for your family and all those other things. I was in the corporate world for a minute, and the need for people who can think is dire. Most successful higher-ups are very aware of this, and you can easily become qualified for work that pays well and gives you security. You will be talented enough to work your way up, and you have the work ethic to do so. There is much greater demand for intelligent people than what is confined to academic philosophy.

So what's the worst case scenario? You've lost 6-8 years in opportunity cost. That's a lot. But you're now Dr. Duns Eith. Most people your age are likely still in middling corporate positions. They've likely spent the majority of their free time at work, and probably indifferent about what they do. So they've made a little more money than you would have. So what? Time isn't what makes all the difference. I can't promise you'll love what you do after philosophy, but there's no guarantee you'll love whatever you'd do in philosophy. And plus, you'll almost certainly make more money. The TT phil professors at my top 3 MA program make about $60k. What I'm trying to say basically is, academic philosophy isn't everything. Even if the absolute worst case scenario comes true for you, life goes on. And it can be great, and in many ways, better.

So how is this a good decision? You get to do what you love for 6-8 years, with more free time than the average working American, and have at least some funding to do so. Maybe a few doors are closed, but more are certainly open. Seems like a great decision to me, but to each their own.