Finding out how current grad students REALLY feel about the program

[gillis_55]

Hi all - I am in the interview process now with several schools and realizing that the interview days are about selling you on the program and giving you all the positives. In a few cases I have contacts who have attended these programs and I'm noticing there is sometimes a discrepancy in what the program is really like (from a student's perspective) versus what the school claims it is; you pretty much never hear about any potential downsides or negative things to consider on the interview days. Same goes for POIs. I think that every program/POI will have good things and bad things to consider, and I'd like to hear both sides before I have to decide. 

My question is, in cases where I don't know anyone personally who's attended, how do I find out some of the potential drawbacks/issues with the program? Should I be contacting some of the grad students outside of the formal interview setting (after an acceptance) and asking for their honest opinion? Should I be tracking down graduates on LinkedIn and asking if they'll speak with me?

In the end I understand you can't know everything about a program before you accept and there's an inherent risk to this process, but any advice would be appreciated. 

Thanks!

[Sigaba]

44 minutes ago, gillis_55 said:

Hi all - I am in the interview process now with several schools and realizing that the interview days are about selling you on the program and giving you all the positives. In a few cases I have contacts who have attended these programs and I'm noticing there is sometimes a discrepancy in what the program is really like (from a student's perspective) versus what the school claims it is; you pretty much never hear about any potential downsides or negative things to consider on the interview days. Same goes for POIs. I think that every program/POI will have good things and bad things to consider, and I'd like to hear both sides before I have to decide. 

My question is, in cases where I don't know anyone personally who's attended, how do I find out some of the potential drawbacks/issues with the program? Should I be contacting some of the grad students outside of the formal interview setting (after an acceptance) and asking for their honest opinion? Should I be tracking down graduates on LinkedIn and asking if they'll speak with me?

In the end I understand you can't know everything about a program before you accept and there's an inherent risk to this process, but any advice would be appreciated. 

Thanks!

I would recommend getting in touch with ABDs who have had at least a year to recover from whatever qualifying exams they're required to take. (IME, the opinions of pre-quals graduate students are too fluid and graduate students right after quals are raw.)

Try to have the conversation in person or use a medium that allows for candor. And deniability... 

Before having any communication with graduate students, try to develop a good sense of what information you want and what information you need. Try to figure out how you're going to evaluate the information you receive as it arrives. If you talk to five people and you learn that a topic or a person is polarizing, what kinds of follow up questions are you going to ask to get to the heart of the matter? What are you going to do with information that is unexpected but potentially very useful? (As an example, what if an ABD tells you that a rock star POI smells? Are you going to discount that information because working with said POI is worth it? Or are you going to have at hand questions/comments that tease out the layered implications of such an observation?)

[gillis_55]

Thank you for your thoughtful answer, I think this is a great approach. Also encourages me to think more about what would actually be a deal breaker for me, versus "okay not ideal, but it's minor". 

[MarineBluePsy]

During my application season I directly asked faculty and students about strengths and weaknesses of the program.  There is no such thing as a perfect program so places that refused to acknowledge that anything could be improved upon didn't sit well with me.  There also needs to be some reading between the lines and basic observation when interacting with students that can give you a ton of information.  If the students don't seem welcoming during your visit and instead seem exhausted and unhappy, then perhaps whatever is happening behind the scenes isn't great.  If questions about certain aspects of the program are ignored or responded to with the same cookie cutter sounds good response then perhaps there is another side of the story that would significantly impact your decision.

[Sigaba]

5 hours ago, gillis_55 said:

Thank you for your thoughtful answer, I think this is a great approach. Also encourages me to think more about what would actually be a deal breaker for me, versus "okay not ideal, but it's minor". 

If you take this approach, I recommend that you define deal breakers provisionally. Allowing for a shifting definition can help you navigate down the line thoughts like "Well, I knew the job was dangerous when I took it so I have no right to complain now."

 

 "If the students don't seem exhausted and unhappy, then perhaps whatever is happening behind the scenes isn't great."

@MarineBluePsy, I fixed your post for you.?

I would recommend caution in reading too much into the body language of people you've never met before. Even Pollyanna Harrington has bad days. If you're getting an odd sense from someone, figure out a way to "check in" without being intrusive. Or just ask a question that is so piercing that the person may give a heartfelt answer. "If you had it to do over again, would you still come here?" "Is this program bringing out the best in you?" "What single piece of advice would you give to a graduate student on her first day?"

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by Sigaba

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On 1/30/2019 at 5:10 PM, MarineBluePsy said:

 ...If the students don't seem welcoming during your visit and instead seem exhausted and unhappy, then perhaps whatever is happening behind the scenes isn't great.  If questions about certain aspects of the program are ignored or responded to with the same cookie cutter sounds good response then perhaps there is another side of the story that would significantly impact your decision.

This. SO important.