Clinical psych right out of undergrad?

[1|]010ls10o]

5 hours ago, dancedementia said:

If you're trying to get into a PhD program, the number one thing you can do you boost your chances is to get research experience (and preferably some posters and publications). If you're trying to get into a PsyD or practice-heavy program, get real clinical experience. Be an MHT or a case manager. It sounds like you're getting some related experience at your internship in terms of doing intakes (and learning about the medical admin side is always useful). But no, I would put volunteering at crisis lines VERY low on the priority list. No one cares. And surprisingly, many mental health professionals think they do more harm than good, so in some cases it might even work against you. 

As an illustrative example: I used to help with screening clinical internship resumes. I threw out any ones that mentioned 7 Cups. 

How?

Why?

[dancedementia]

8 hours ago, 21n14l said:

How?

Why?

Has to do with level of training. For 7 Cups in particular, the "training" is literally clicking through a set of pages with information. Some folks don't even read it. There is no accurate test of knowledge (there's a fill in the blank quiz but it's nigh impossible to fail). There are no training sessions with live people. There's very little oversight and supervision. I used to be part of their "internship" program and most of my duties were spamming promotions on social media, posting random replies in the forum, etc. I've also been on the opposite end as someone seeking support and whew, the lack of training and oversight shows in the damaging responses I've received. It's not an isolated case either; I've spoken with several groups of colleagues about this and the verdict is clear: thank u next. 

7 Cups is not the only platform which has this issue, but it is definitely the one that my colleagues and I agreed is damaging and we do not agree with it's model. NAMI's "support groups" used to be really bad too, but kudos to them - they increased their training requirements and are doing much better now, so I can support many of their initiatives. 

CTL is better in that they have much better training - it's longer and you have to do observations and mock conversations before they let you handle "real" people, I believe. That said, i personally feel powerless in true "crisis" situations. Like, I would love to give you a referral to a local shelter or tell you about an MCOT, but..... I can't. All I can do is nod and say, "It sounds like you're really having a tough time." I question whether venting is truly beneficial for folks who are in crisis and desperate enough to text an anonymous line. 

[psychasf]

19 hours ago, Keyz said:

I have to disagree with your point on volunteering on crisis lines and whatnot as simply volunteer experience. I feel as though this is not good advice, especially since you are most likely not going to be doing any form of psychotherapy or one-on-one counseling with clients with a BA. A vast majority of programs count volunteering at crisis lines or shelters as clinical work because you are indirectly providing a form of therapy for clients who call in and usually have to go through some form of training in order to be able to volunteer. 

As an undergrad, I was a phone screener for research studies, ran participants through studies, and sat in on group therapy. It is definitely doable to get 'clinical' experience as an undergrad. As a crisis text line volunteer, or volunteering at a shelter, you are not providing any kind of 'therapy'. At least for CTL all you do is come up with coping skills. Anyway, for PhD programs, research experience is much more valued and honestly will make you a better candidate for programs if you have extensive research under your belt and zero clinical experience. 

[gillis_55]

On 1/30/2019 at 10:46 PM, youngqueerliving said:

I'm applying from undergrad (I'll be graduating in June). I applied to 8 clinical PhD programs and got 6 interviews. I've already been accepted at one of my top choices, so I canceled four of my interviews and am only going to one more.

I think it's extremely common to take a year or two to gain more research experience, but I've had meaningful research experience (and resultant posters/publications) since my freshman year of college (and even a summer in high school), so I knew what I wanted to study and I knew that I'd be competitive. It's really a case-by-case situation though I think. When it comes time to apply, you should compare your CV to other people who are applying/have applied that you know. That can give you a good idea if you're competitive.

Also, to the folks saying that you shouldn't pursue a PhD or even a PsyD if you're interested in a practice-oriented career, you are seriously misguided. 50% of graduates from clinical PhD programs go on to do full-time clinical work. We need good clinicians with good scientific training, and many of those folks come from PhD programs.

While I agree it is valuable to have clinicians with scientific training, I think there are very valid reasons why people suggest doing a master's level degree (e.g., social work, counselling, psychotherapy) if you want to do clinical practice only: 

1) Saving up to 5 years of further schooling and all of the financial and opportunity costs associated with it - if you include the salary foregone during that time period, this is often tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. 

2) Going through a PhD program if you have little interest in research could be a BRUTAL experience. A huge portion of your time and energy will be dedicated towards research for 6-7 years of your life and your success/failure in the program will be directly tied to your research accomplishments. 

3) With an MA/MSc-only program, there is always the option to return for a PhD later if you deem it appropriate for your goals. 

That being said, yes, many who graduate from clinical programs are going into full-time practice (based on what I've heard from PhD programs I've interviewed with). I think this is split between people who genuinely want to do that full-time and those that might have wanted a research position but weren't able to attain one yet (or ever). Researcher or researcher-clinician positions are much scarcer and more competitive, and are definitely less friendly to work-life balance (especially if you have a family). 

I would encourage someone straight out of undergrad to consider their options very carefully, and to take at least a year off to work full-time. You may just get a taste for what it's like to earn a living wage and decide not to come back. I personally decided to return after 6 years in another field, but I took a full year to make the decision and consulted many in the mental health field (psychologists, social workers, nurses) to be sure this is what I wanted. I was also able to save up enough to ensure that I won't be living on a 10-20K stipend + loans for 7 years. Of course it may 100% be the right path for you as well, but I just caution other people not to pursue it because that's what everyone else is doing or because they don't know what else to do. 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by gillis_55