MA, MTS, MAR prospects??

[fualmu]

So, all of my grad apps are submitted but I'm starting to feel a little bit nervous about getting accepted anywhere. I applied to MARc (Religion and the Arts) at YDS, MTS at HDS, MA at Florida State and Syracuse, and MA in Early Christian Studies at Notre Dame. I have a double major in Religious Studies and Art History and am interested in studying early Christian art. I ultimately want to get a PhD, but I'm getting a master's first just because I don't have enough language training and need more time to prepare for PhD programs. My overall GPA is a 3.6 with 4.0 GPAs in both of my majors (Religious Studies and Art History). I started undergrad in an awful program and had no idea what I wanted to do and ended up failing two courses. I changed my majors halfway through my sophomore year and I have only gotten 4.0's in my classes since, so I'm hoping that will make up for my subpar academic performance during my first two years of undergrad--after all, I've pretty much made a complete 180 since my freshman year. I'm also concerned because my test scores are not great. I've seen some posts on here where people were worried that their GRE 161v score wasn't high enough to get into some of the same programs I applied to and my scores are significantly lower than that.

For extracurriculars, I recently presented undergraduate research on the intersectionality between pagan and Christian themes in early Christian art and I was a Teaching Assistant last semester. I've also gone on study abroad programs where I worked on an archaeological site in Greece and studied the religious traditions of the Uttarakhand region in India. Thankfully, I also have very strong letters of recommendation from profs in the field and I feel very confident in my writing samples and statements of purpose. 

I've been told my my professors and advisors that programs more heavily weigh LOR, SOP, and writing samples, but after reading some of the posts on here I'm getting concerned that I'm not going to get acceptances or offers because of my low scores and rough academic history. Most of the programs I am applying to are extremely competitive, so do you think I should prepare myself to be rejected? Or should I remain hopeful? I know this is an annoying question but I'm pretty worried and need some opinions/advice. Thanks!

[marXian]

I think the Harvard MTS program is comparatively less competitive than the other three. I'm not sure how the Yale MARc stacks up against ND or FSU, but as you probably know, ND's program tends to be quite competitive.

I think the main concern regarding stats would be GRE scores. You said your verbal score was "significantly" lower than 161. 161 is probably not good enough for some PhD programs (although, I had a 161 and I attend an elite school). But it is, I would think, good enough for most M* programs. By significantly lower, do you mean like a 155-158? Or do you mean a 140? If you're not in at least the 80th percentile (guessing), then a program might run into problems regarding any funding they could offer you since universities tend to have hard numbers on GRE scores and GPAs for that sort of thing. I don't know what the exact number would be (I imagine it varies school to school) so take my stab at the 80th percentile with a grain of salt. The GRE sucks, but keep in mind that if you have your sights set on a PhD, you'll need to be, at the very least, in the 90th percentile and probably higher to be competitive at schools that take the GRE seriously.

I wouldn't worry too much about the Fs or undergrad GPA. A 3.6 is good enough for consideration.

Overall, your profs are right that your letters and SOP carry a lot of weight. Grad school is not like getting into undergrad where stats and extracurriculars matter a lot. Those things matter, but a really stunning SOP and excellent letters can outweigh other areas that might be lacking.

[fualmu]

1 hour ago, marXian said:

I think the Harvard MTS program is comparatively less competitive than the other three. I'm not sure how the Yale MARc stacks up against ND or FSU, but as you probably know, ND's program tends to be quite competitive.

I think the main concern regarding stats would be GRE scores. You said your verbal score was "significantly" lower than 161. 161 is probably not good enough for some PhD programs (although, I had a 161 and I attend an elite school). But it is, I would think, good enough for most M* programs. By significantly lower, do you mean like a 155-158? Or do you mean a 140? If you're not in at least the 80th percentile (guessing), then a program might run into problems regarding any funding they could offer you since universities tend to have hard numbers on GRE scores and GPAs for that sort of thing. I don't know what the exact number would be (I imagine it varies school to school) so take my stab at the 80th percentile with a grain of salt. The GRE sucks, but keep in mind that if you have your sights set on a PhD, you'll need to be, at the very least, in the 90th percentile and probably higher to be competitive at schools that take the GRE seriously.

I wouldn't worry too much about the Fs or undergrad GPA. A 3.6 is good enough for consideration.

Overall, your profs are right that your letters and SOP carry a lot of weight. Grad school is not like getting into undergrad where stats and extracurriculars matter a lot. Those things matter, but a really stunning SOP and excellent letters can outweigh other areas that might be lacking.

I got a 151v 153q 4.0w, which were all around the 52nd percentile. So definitely not great scores but I'm going to retake it once I apply for PhD programs after completing my M*. I figured that my GRE score will probably affect funding rather than acceptance at less competitive schools. Thank you so much for your reply! It's so hard to know where you stand during the application process but getting a second opinion is very helpful!

[OmniscienceQuest]

My opinion is that you should relax and let your mind be at ease. I believe that on September 1st this year you will be on campus at one of these programs starting the next phase of your education, and all this anxiety will be finding entirely new worries to circle around. I graduated from HDS last year and MarX is right that admission is around 40-50%. I don't know anything about the others but I think you're going to be A-OK.

Once you get to wherever you end up, I agree with you that it's important to take language classes, but focus on what you ultimately want to study and think of your master's education from day 1 as a sort of probationary PhD. IMO the easiest way to get into an elite PhD is to take a master's at the same school, work with (take a class every semester with) the person you want as your advisor, and be yourself (and professional) from the moment you meet them to the moment you ask them to write your reccomendation letters. The people I saw succeed in making the transition from master's to PhD were all people who didnt spent excessive time thinking about their PhD prospects but threw themselves passionately into the research and thrived at it because they loved it (and were also all very talented to begin with of course).

I can't guarantee what the schools will decide, but I think you're going to be fine. If your worse nightmare were to come true and you were rejected everywhere, you could come back here and we'd help you figure out what went wrong and you could reapply next year and I'm certain you'd get in somewhere (I'm also reassuring myself here, because I'm very anxious about my two PhD applications that are out right now and I'm checking my email every 5 minutes for the rejection letters). I think results are released around March 15th so you have a month to go. Best of luck! And let us know what happens.

[fualmu]

On 2/6/2019 at 12:59 PM, OmniscienceQuest said:

My opinion is that you should relax and let your mind be at ease. I believe that on September 1st this year you will be on campus at one of these programs starting the next phase of your education, and all this anxiety will be finding entirely new worries to circle around. I graduated from HDS last year and MarX is right that admission is around 40-50%. I don't know anything about the others but I think you're going to be A-OK.

Once you get to wherever you end up, I agree with you that it's important to take language classes, but focus on what you ultimately want to study and think of your master's education from day 1 as a sort of probationary PhD. IMO the easiest way to get into an elite PhD is to take a master's at the same school, work with (take a class every semester with) the person you want as your advisor, and be yourself (and professional) from the moment you meet them to the moment you ask them to write your reccomendation letters. The people I saw succeed in making the transition from master's to PhD were all people who didnt spent excessive time thinking about their PhD prospects but threw themselves passionately into the research and thrived at it because they loved it (and were also all very talented to begin with of course).

I can't guarantee what the schools will decide, but I think you're going to be fine. If your worse nightmare were to come true and you were rejected everywhere, you could come back here and we'd help you figure out what went wrong and you could reapply next year and I'm certain you'd get in somewhere (I'm also reassuring myself here, because I'm very anxious about my two PhD applications that are out right now and I'm checking my email every 5 minutes for the rejection letters). I think results are released around March 15th so you have a month to go. Best of luck! And let us know what happens.

Thank you so much for your response! That definitely made me feel much better; sometimes all you need is some encouragement. How was your experience at HDS? Were you there for an MTS? And good luck to you as well! What PhD programs did you apply to?

[OmniscienceQuest]

On 2/7/2019 at 1:18 PM, fualmu said:

Thank you so much for your response! That definitely made me feel much better; sometimes all you need is some encouragement. How was your experience at HDS? Were you there for an MTS? And good luck to you as well! What PhD programs did you apply to?

It was an amazing experience -- one, just to be at Harvard, and two, because I loved the Div School. I started off intending to be there for two years to get an MTS and ended up graduating four years later with an MDiv and a fellowship year abroad.

I applied to PhD's in Political Science, and I only applied to two programs because when it came down to decision time there were only two I felt really passionate about. Now I just hope for a miracle.

[fualmu]

On 2/9/2019 at 4:32 PM, OmniscienceQuest said:

It was an amazing experience -- one, just to be at Harvard, and two, because I loved the Div School. I started off intending to be there for two years to get an MTS and ended up graduating four years later with an MDiv and a fellowship year abroad.

I applied to PhD's in Political Science, and I only applied to two programs because when it came down to decision time there were only two I felt really passionate about. Now I just hope for a miracle.

If you don't mind me asking, what were your stats for getting into HDS and where else did you apply? I hope you hear back from the PhD programs soon...I can only imagine how excruciating the waiting process must be for you.

[OmniscienceQuest]

23 minutes ago, fualmu said:

If you don't mind me asking, what were your stats for getting into HDS and where else did you apply? I hope you hear back from the PhD programs soon...I can only imagine how excruciating the waiting process must be for you.

You know it was so long ago I dont remember and ETS deleted the results so I couldn't even go look now. I think I must have taken the GRE for that round of applications in 2012, when it was still on a scale of 800. I think I got one question wrong on Verbal but scored in the 500s for Quant (quite low). I did my undergrad at an Ivy (as an adult in my 30s) and did very well there. I applied to HDS and to Yale's master in Second Temple Judaism and was accepted to both. I'd be happy to talk in more detail about my personal experiences by PM. One thing I can say I believe is true of all admissions is that their objective isn't to judge if you're a "good enough person" for them, but the first thing they want to look at is: would you be able to do the work if you were admitted? Both HDS and my undergraduate experience were the hardest things I've ever attempted and nothing prepared me for how hard it would be. Day One felt like running face-first into a wall and then it was sink or swim (sorry for the mixed metaphors). This isn't to frighten anyone, just to give a sense of what I mean when I say they're looking to see who can do the work. These are my personal experiences and I've never done any work in admissions so take it for what it's worth.