How Competitive Is Getting Accepted Into a PhD program, compared to another professional degree?

[thepeeps]

Totally sorry if this is the wrong thread.

I'm overall just curious on how difficult/competitive it is to get accepted into an English PhD vs a math/science/STEM PhD or really any other PhD.  Also wondering how it would compare to say, applying to law school vs a English PhD program.

Again sorry if this is the wrong thread, just curious.

[Cryss]

Can't speak to how competitive other programs are, but some schools do either explicitly state or add in their statistics how many applicants they usually have vs how many they enroll. Columbia's PhD in English Literature website, for example, states that they receive 700 applications approximately, and they enroll 16 students, so just over 2%. Other school sites will state they receive around 200 or 400, and enroll 8 or 6. It's hard for 1 person to offer advice on how competitive all of the programs you listed are, but check out the grad statistics for a few schools (maybe the ones you are interested in); they are usually hidden somewhere on the website, and, if the statistics are very advanced, you can move from Department to department, subject to subject, and check out how many applicants, how many accepted or enrolled, and how many graduated. Other measurements are usually available too (what percentage is international, what minorities they have at what percentages). Perhaps with this information, you can compare for yourself how competitive one field is over another in terms of sheer numbers. 

In terms of perception, I would think each program is difficult to get into in its own way. For English/Literature, you would need to have had some classes that are relevant to the degree you are applying for, besides the basic gen ed classes. Some programs even ask for an MA. You would need to have a great writing sample that shows the scope of your research in the subfield in English you are interested in (which is why many people use either a thesis or a class paper as a starting point--they have already put months of research into the topic and know the academic discussion happening). I would think STEM may not need a 15-25 page writing sample like English, but probably has other program specific things they ask for with your application. 

Furthermore, the job market determines the demand for certain jobs, which also trickles back to cohort sizes. Therefore, you might have more STEM applicants and larger cohort sizes because of the market demand. Or you may have less applicants, but still large cohort sizes, which would mean a higher acceptance possibility. For Literature, the job market in academia is tough and a bit saturated, so, all this indirectly affects how many people schools will accept or how much money will be allocated to the English department etc, which could make it more competitive.

Your question is very complex. Hope some of this helps, at least!

Edited August 19, 2019 by Cryss

[havemybloodchild]

My understanding is that humanities PhD programs are very difficult to get into versus other types of programs. I think it has a ton to do with the job market- a program is as good as it’s reputation for graduating people who get jobs. Like Cryss mentioned above the job market is particularly difficult for English PhDs and therefore a lot of programs have reduced their cohort size.

I also think funding expectations are at work here. It’s not expected that law students will receive stipends/tuition remission/health insurance, etc., but unfunded English PhD programs...well they’re definitely more rare and (imo) not worth going to. So it costs schools a lot more money per student admitted into a cohort in English than into a lot of other programs.

It is a complex question, this is just my basic two cents on it. 

[HenryJams]

I can speak to your question about law schools.

It's easy to get into law school. There are two primary ways law schools measure applicants' viability: by looking at undergrad GPA, and by looking at your LSAT score. Pretty much nothing else you do matters, even though iirc you have to write a personal statement.

Each school is required by the American Bar Association to disclose certain statistics about its incoming classes. Among those statistics are 25th, 50th, and 75th percentiles for GPA and LSAT scores. So it is quite easy to take the LSAT and then look at various law schools' websites to see how your scores and GPA stack up against students in the most recently admitted class. If you have an LSAT in the 75th percentile and GPA in the 75th percentile for a given school, you'll probably get in. Even if you're solidly in the 50th percentile for each, you'll probably get in. The ABA disclosures are super-helpful in that respect.

The bottom line is that the law school admissions process is highly mechanical and predictable.

PhD programs, on the other hand, are a lot more opaque about the weight they afford each part of the application package. There are more parts to the application package overall, compared to the brute-force LSAT/GPA calculation used by most law schools. And crucially, PhD programs rarely disclose useful admissions statistics.

My conclusion is that PhD programs are way harder to get into. Even someone with a mediocre GPA and LSAT score can do basic research and determine which schools are likely to accept them (a lot of schools, as it turns out). But even someone with a stellar academic record cannot accurately predict which PhD programs will accept them.

[Boolakanaka]

Depends on what level of program? If you are comparing the top level programs from PhD compared to say, top 5 law schools—fairly compatible on a statistical level. My experience is from the law side (served on several admission committees) and for schools like Yale and Stanford, well you are talking single digits and highly self-selective, i.e. if you don’t have mean scores and grades, do not bother applying. By way of specific example, I knew at YLS, in a single class, a former General, more than a few PhDs, a couple MDs, and a Pulitzer and an Emmy award winner.....