Weak Grades, Mediocre GRE...What ranking range should I actually be considering?

[oak_park]

Generally feeling unsure about my decision to apply to a PhD given the advice found on the forum regarding applying to schools in the top 25 only (with exceptions for good fit ofc). 

Undergraduate Institution: Top 25 liberal arts school with non-standard class system (we take one class at a time for 3.5 weeks at a time, 4 a semester). 

Major: International Political Economy

Minor: Mathematics (sub-field of Analysis, leaning more towards pure math).

GPA: Overall: 3.295, in Major: 3.55, in Minor: 2.64 (B+ in culminating class for this sequence, Real Analysis II)

Important Courses not in the Degree: Econometric Theory (A-)

GRE: Q: 162, V: 163, AW: 4.0 (unhappy with AW, but not sure if worth retaking)

Language: Won't have 'intermediate' proficiency in Spanish until after application is submitted

Computer Languages: R, Stata, LaTex, Mathematica, some Excel

LOR: Undergraduate thesis advisor (Economist, 2 classes in addition to thesis) and Econometric Theory Professor should both provide strong letters of recommendation. Additionally, a strong letter from a comparativist working in the substantive sub-field I am interested in   (doesn't really work much with quantitative methods).

SOP: Based on extending my preliminary undergraduate research into nation-building and transnational identities in the Americas (specifically the non-spanish speaking Caribbean, would love to hear recs for programs you think are a good fit). Specifically, I'm interested in how nations are problematic for regional development schemes and how they were helpful for the 'age of revolution' in the Americas. Tied in my work experience of political organizing by talking about community identity and nations.

No Field Experience...Dual Citizen for a country of significance in my region. 

Hope I'm not leaving anything out! Interested in hearing where I should apply (ranking wise) and am very happy to hear about specific departments people think might align with my research interest. Thank you!

 

 

 

[uncle_socks]

For you I'd really recommend applying very broadly. Without the GPA it sounds like you have a very strong profile, but obviously we can't just discount that. 

I have a couple of questions: is a 3.3 considered bad/good within your college class? There are LACs like Reed where a 3.6 puts you solidly into the top 10% or so. What is your career goal? If you want to teach at an R1 or selective LAC, I'd really look into applying to MA programs as a back up to boost your GPA and then applying to top schools only, as well as applying to a variety of T25ish places. If you want to get into policy,  the standards are somewhat lower and you don't have to necessarily go to the best school. 

[oak_park]

17 minutes ago, BunniesInSpace said:

For you I'd really recommend applying very broadly. Without the GPA it sounds like you have a very strong profile, but obviously we can't just discount that. 

I have a couple of questions: is a 3.3 considered bad/good within your college class? There are LACs like Reed where a 3.6 puts you solidly into the top 10% or so. What is your career goal? If you want to teach at an R1 or selective LAC, I'd really look into applying to MA programs as a back up to boost your GPA and then applying to top schools only, as well as applying to a variety of T25ish places. If you want to get into policy,  the standards are somewhat lower and you don't have to necessarily go to the best school. 

I've had some trouble gauging the GPA question myself, I tend to believe there is grade deflation based on conversations with professors and students (but my major is very small ~5-10 people). I'm very interested in teaching at an R1 or selective LAC. Would it be a mistake to look at masters programs in statistics/economics/interdisciplinary or should I mainly look into Political Science programs? To clarify, are you suggesting I should apply to schools in the 10-25 range and the masters programs?

Thank you so much for responding!

Edited November 30, 2019 by oak_park

[uncle_socks]

1 hour ago, oak_park said:

I've had some trouble gauging the GPA question myself, I tend to believe there is grade deflation based on conversations with professors and students (but my major is very small ~5-10 people). I'm very interested in teaching at an R1 or selective LAC. Would it be a mistake to look at masters programs in statistics/economics/interdisciplinary or should I mainly look into Political Science programs? To clarify, are you suggesting I should apply to schools in the 10-25 range and the masters programs?

Thank you so much for responding!

If there's reason to think there's grade deflation, I'd make sure to have your recommenders mention it within their letters. Everyone knows Reed has grade deflation, but that's largely their knowledge of LAC grading. A lot of places will have sections on the application where you can discuss things like grades.  

If your ultimate goal is to get into a polisci PhD program and not full-in be a methodologist, I'd stay towards social science-y MA programs (read: not statistics programs, which are most likely to dislike your math GPA anyways). There's not really a big placement difference in between your placement at an MPP vs. MPA vs. MA political science vs. MA econ programs vs. MA in IR or Area Studies vs. a JD (don't get a JD though) once you control for stuff like program/school prestige. Some that seem like perennial feeders into top programs are QMSS at Columbia and MAPSS at Chicago (look into MCRM there too). The only annoying thing about MA programs is that they're often very expensive (and if you've got money, that's awesome and you don't need to read beyond this). The Chicago programs have alright funding opportunities. I've heard thirdhand that TA opportunities at QMSS are plentiful. Marquette has decent placement into PhD programs and funds MA students. I think Yale has money to give out in Area studies and IR MA types. State schools with MA programs but without PhD programs often fund MA students. NYU and Duke don't really fund MA students.  

But yeah, if I were you I'd be applying to both MA programs as well as PhDs in between 1-40ish if you're committed to staying in school next year. Obviously don't apply anywhere you wouldn't be okay going. 

[Theoryboi]

Hey Oak_Park,

I'm not super up on the political economy and quant departments but maybe check out Tulane and Florida International University. I am not recommending them as I am not very familiar with either, save that they have focuses on your regional interest. Tulane's PhD is in Political Development and I am aware they focus on LA/Caribbean and have a political economy bent. Further, they have a Francophone thing going on there because of New Orleans, so they may have less of a focus on Spanish America. (Per their email their sent to me from the GRE mailing list). Also, as they aren't top-25 schools, you may stand a better shot of getting in. Good luck!

[oak_park]

1 hour ago, Theoryboi said:

Hey Oak_Park,

I'm not super up on the political economy and quant departments but maybe check out Tulane and Florida International University. I am not recommending them as I am not very familiar with either, save that they have focuses on your regional interest. Tulane's PhD is in Political Development and I am aware they focus on LA/Caribbean and have a political economy bent. Further, they have a Francophone thing going on there because of New Orleans, so they may have less of a focus on Spanish America. (Per their email their sent to me from the GRE mailing list). Also, as they aren't top-25 schools, you may stand a better shot of getting in. Good luck!

Thanks for this! I'm actually from Miami so FIU would be interesting . I'll definitely look into Tulane too.

[uncle_socks]

I'd highly recommend against getting a PhD at either of those two if you really want to work at an R1. SLACs are more lenient with where who they hire got their PhD (though largely they go for name brand schools too), but both of those schools are pretty much non-starters if you want an R1/very selective LAC job. For any school you're considering, take a hard look at their placement page and think about whether you'd be happy with the median types of jobs that their graduates land. 

[Theory007]

Go Tigers!

[oak_park]

14 minutes ago, Theory007 said:

Go Tigers!

LMAO a fellow CC Tiger, no way!

[Theory007]

3 minutes ago, oak_park said:

LMAO a fellow CC Tiger, no way!

LOL absolutely! Hope you loved it there as much as I did.

My advise: your GRE scores aren't bad (dont worry about the AW), but I agree that your GPA might hold you back. If you want a good shot at great programs, then get your GREs in the 165+ range for each section. It will be hard to measurably attain a stronger GPA, but certainly possible to get a higher GRA score. Also, and I cannot emphasize this enough, really try to figure out where your research will fit well. All schools reject more qualified applicants in favor of applicants that fit better. This also means that you should not apply to a top program because it is a top program. Apply to places where professors are actually interested in your research and in working with you.

[oak_park]

Just now, Theory007 said:

LOL absolutely! Hope you loved it there as much as I did.

My advise: your GRE scores aren't bad (dont worry about the AW), but I agree that your GPA might hold you back. If you want a good shot at great programs, then get your GREs in the 165+ range for each section. It will be hard to measurably attain a stronger GPA, but certainly possible to get a higher GRA score. Also, and I cannot emphasize this enough, really try to figure out where your research will fit well. All schools reject more qualified applicants in favor of applicants that fit better. This also means that you should not apply to a top program because it is a top program. Apply to places where professors are actually interested in your research and in working with you.

Thanks for this advice, probably the kick I needed to enroll in the GRE half-block. Just as a follow-up, do you think its worth noting that most of my bad grades are in one semester (there were some personal issues, but I'd rather not get into them on the app)? I have an A average in every semester except for that one, but I'm not sure if that will come across as making excuses.

[Theory007]

1 minute ago, oak_park said:

Thanks for this advice, probably the kick I needed to enroll in the GRE half-block. Just as a follow-up, do you think its worth noting that most of my bad grades are in one semester (there were some personal issues, but I'd rather not get into them on the app)? I have an A average in every semester except for that one, but I'm not sure if that will come across as making excuses.

Wow a GRE half-block? That is so cool (it did not exist when I was there)! For sure you should enroll in it if you can! Yes it can only further your cause if you can explain lower grades as an extraordinary event that is unlikely to repeat when you enroll in grad school. I encourage you to be as honest as you can about what transpired. You will do very well I'm sure! Keep in touch about how it all goes!

[oak_park]

9 minutes ago, Theory007 said:

 You will do very well I'm sure! Keep in touch about how it all goes!

Thanks so much! I will!