REAL thoughts on Columbia from current/former students or those that have close connections to students

[Arthistoryiscool]

Columbia was my first choice and I feel that it will be a good fit, but seeing as how it is ridiculously expensive I want to know as much as I can before making the leap so that I can feel confident in my decision and feel like it's worth the cost.

What are things your love and hate about Columbia?

What are the pros/cons compared to other programs or name recognition? Is Williams thought of as far superior or are they both regarded with the same respect? 

What did you wish you had known before attending?

I know MA students get to select an advisor for their thesis, but do they get an advisor/mentor before then?

Any other tips are much appreciated?

[oldwitch]

Columbia is a very highly-regarded program and will help you get into PhD programs.  
The campus is beautiful, and the faculty are great.  I don't know if you already live in NYC but it is a wonderful city in which to be a student.

That being said, Williams is also very good, it depends on who you will be working with.  Columbia is famous for being a bit of a swindle financially, but it is really world-class, so make sure that what Williams is offering is as good or better than what Columbia is offering (aside from financial aid etc)

[Bronte1985]

Columbia does have one of the very top art history programs, but its MA program is, in fact, not well respected. Essentially, it is a cash cow for the department; your tuition is helping to fund all of those PhD students. If money is no object, and you won't go into debt paying tuition and living in NYC, then maybe it's something to consider. BUT: know you will receive very little to no attention from the tenured and tenure-track faculty. (Hell, the PhD students can barely get attention from the faculty! But that's another story...) The resources are, of course, unparalleled, in terms of libraries and museums, but you will be no one's priority.  On top of that, I have been around for a while now and have not met any students at top PhD programs who received a terminal MA from Columbia. If you go to Columbia, you are purchasing a name, but you won't get much return on your investment.,  

Now, Williams is a totally different situation. In every cohort of the top PhD programs, there is at least one or two graduates from their MA program, which, unlike Columbia, is well funded. It is probably the top MA program in the country. Also unlike Columbia, there are no PhD students with whom you have to fight for attention from the faculty. If you have the choice between Columbia and Williams for an MA, the choice is very clear. 

[theoryschmeary]

@Bronte1985

I'm curious to know which art history PhD programs you consider to be "top". I'm a recent graduate of Columbia's MA program (I can provide details to the OP in a follow-up post) and have known several alumni to go on to PhD programs at Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Northwestern, Columbia, and UPenn, just to name a few. 

[Bronte1985]

 

14 hours ago, theoryschmeary said:

@Bronte1985

I'm curious to know which art history PhD programs you consider to be "top". I'm a recent graduate of Columbia's MA program (I can provide details to the OP in a follow-up post) and have known several alumni to go on to PhD programs at Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Northwestern, Columbia, and UPenn, just to name a few. 

Maybe things have changed then! I'm glad if they have. I'm curious, though: how was your experience in the program?

[Arthistoryiscool]

17 hours ago, theoryschmeary said:

@Bronte1985

I'm curious to know which art history PhD programs you consider to be "top". I'm a recent graduate of Columbia's MA program (I can provide details to the OP in a follow-up post) and have known several alumni to go on to PhD programs at Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Northwestern, Columbia, and UPenn, just to name a few. 

Congrats on your recent graduation! What did you think of the program? 

[ArtNerd2020]

Posting to follow for any additional responses. Also, Would there be any current or former MA students from Columbia who would be willing to share their experiences with the program via PM? I'm currently torn between Columbia and my other top program (both have offered funding), so any additional insights would be helpful to me. Thank you! 

[CyrtomiumFalcatum]

On 3/11/2020 at 1:14 PM, Bronte1985 said:

Columbia does have one of the very top art history programs, but its MA program is, in fact, not well respected. Essentially, it is a cash cow for the department; your tuition is helping to fund all of those PhD students. If money is no object, and you won't go into debt paying tuition and living in NYC, then maybe it's something to consider. BUT: know you will receive very little to no attention from the tenured and tenure-track faculty. (Hell, the PhD students can barely get attention from the faculty! But that's another story...) The resources are, of course, unparalleled, in terms of libraries and museums, but you will be no one's priority.  On top of that, I have been around for a while now and have not met any students at top PhD programs who received a terminal MA from Columbia. If you go to Columbia, you are purchasing a name, but you won't get much return on your investment.,  

Now, Williams is a totally different situation. In every cohort of the top PhD programs, there is at least one or two graduates from their MA program, which, unlike Columbia, is well funded. It is probably the top MA program in the country. Also unlike Columbia, there are no PhD students with whom you have to fight for attention from the faculty. If you have the choice between Columbia and Williams for an MA, the choice is very clear. 

I've created an account just to emphatically disagree with what I feel are some highly spurious claims being made in the above post. I graduated from Columbia's terminal MA program a couple years ago and found that my experience was far removed from that being detailed here. The post above gives the impression that you join the MA, pay up, and then don't see anyone for two years. Aside from the seminars that everyone takes anyway, I was seeing professors in office hours basically every week, and I was frequently in close contact with at least four tenure(-track) members of faculty, all of whom greatly shaped my work and, for what its worth, helped me throughout the various stages of the PhD application process. (The idea that even PhD students are neglected by Columbia faculty is also far from from the truth.) I would also like to mention especially that the director of the MA program is fantastic (and a graduate of the program herself), and makes a concerted effort to create a sense of community for the MA students—this includes, among other things, 2 MA-only methodology and practices courses, day-long thesis workshops every semester (attended by faculty), and visiting lectures from people in the museum and galleries sector. In the last few years I have known (myself included) many people from Columbia's terminal MA program to receive multiple PhD offers from what this Forum likes to refer to as "top programs": Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Columbia, UCBerkely, UCLA, or be hired by institutions such as the Met, Frick Collection or Chicago's Art Institute. In my PhD program there are currently 4 Columbia MA/MODA graduates. 

All this said, it is an expensive program, so this is obviously something that should be factored into one's decision. I also know several brilliant graduates of the Williams MA in my current PhD program. Ultimately, what one "gets" out of any of these programs is a function of what one puts in. My point however is to say that the opinion given in the above post seems to be entirely conjectural and, at worst, outright false.

 

[Bronte1985]

On 4/7/2020 at 12:30 PM, CyrtomiumFalcatum said:

I've created an account just to emphatically disagree with what I feel are some highly spurious claims being made in the above post. I graduated from Columbia's terminal MA program a couple years ago and found that my experience was far removed from that being detailed here. The post above gives the impression that you join the MA, pay up, and then don't see anyone for two years. Aside from the seminars that everyone takes anyway, I was seeing professors in office hours basically every week, and I was frequently in close contact with at least four tenure(-track) members of faculty, all of whom greatly shaped my work and, for what its worth, helped me throughout the various stages of the PhD application process. (The idea that even PhD students are neglected by Columbia faculty is also far from from the truth.) I would also like to mention especially that the director of the MA program is fantastic (and a graduate of the program herself), and makes a concerted effort to create a sense of community for the MA students—this includes, among other things, 2 MA-only methodology and practices courses, day-long thesis workshops every semester (attended by faculty), and visiting lectures from people in the museum and galleries sector. In the last few years I have known (myself included) many people from Columbia's terminal MA program to receive multiple PhD offers from what this Forum likes to refer to as "top programs": Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Columbia, UCBerkely, UCLA, or be hired by institutions such as the Met, Frick Collection or Chicago's Art Institute. In my PhD program there are currently 4 Columbia MA/MODA graduates. 

All this said, it is an expensive program, so this is obviously something that should be factored into one's decision. I also know several brilliant graduates of the Williams MA in my current PhD program. Ultimately, what one "gets" out of any of these programs is a function of what one puts in. My point however is to say that the opinion given in the above post seems to be entirely conjectural and, at worst, outright false.

 

This is heartening to hear! Obviously you know better than I do, and I'm very glad to learn that the faculty are so involved and interested. I was basing what I said on reputation, but I don't have hands on experience. I did not attend Columbia for my MA or PhD, but from what I've heard from PhD students there is that most professors take a decidedly "hands off" approach, which is not unusual at the "top" programs. Perhaps the culture is changing. In any case, you are totally right: you get what you put in, whatever the programs (though with some places you do get a better return on your investment). 

[Arthistoryiscool]

On 4/7/2020 at 9:30 AM, CyrtomiumFalcatum said:

I've created an account just to emphatically disagree with what I feel are some highly spurious claims being made in the above post. I graduated from Columbia's terminal MA program a couple years ago and found that my experience was far removed from that being detailed here. The post above gives the impression that you join the MA, pay up, and then don't see anyone for two years. Aside from the seminars that everyone takes anyway, I was seeing professors in office hours basically every week, and I was frequently in close contact with at least four tenure(-track) members of faculty, all of whom greatly shaped my work and, for what its worth, helped me throughout the various stages of the PhD application process. (The idea that even PhD students are neglected by Columbia faculty is also far from from the truth.) I would also like to mention especially that the director of the MA program is fantastic (and a graduate of the program herself), and makes a concerted effort to create a sense of community for the MA students—this includes, among other things, 2 MA-only methodology and practices courses, day-long thesis workshops every semester (attended by faculty), and visiting lectures from people in the museum and galleries sector. In the last few years I have known (myself included) many people from Columbia's terminal MA program to receive multiple PhD offers from what this Forum likes to refer to as "top programs": Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Columbia, UCBerkely, UCLA, or be hired by institutions such as the Met, Frick Collection or Chicago's Art Institute. In my PhD program there are currently 4 Columbia MA/MODA graduates. 

All this said, it is an expensive program, so this is obviously something that should be factored into one's decision. I also know several brilliant graduates of the Williams MA in my current PhD program. Ultimately, what one "gets" out of any of these programs is a function of what one puts in. My point however is to say that the opinion given in the above post seems to be entirely conjectural and, at worst, outright false.

 

So glad to hear! Yes I kept hearing these rumors about Columbia being a cash cow and getting no attention from profs, but after speaking with several current/recent students in the program this doesn't seem to be true at all! I have chosen Columbia and couldn't be happier with my decision, I think it will be a great fit for me!