class of 2020 - HKS MPP (no money ) vs SAIS (40k/yr) ?

[fshopeful]

HKS has a heavy private sector focus but I would caution against reading too much into MBB placement. Top MPPs/IR degrees — non-dual degrees — send folks to top consulting firms, but the caveat is that many tend to be international offices — i.e. you’ll need language skills and perhaps sponsorship.
 

HKS also loves recruiting MBB consultants so they may actually just be returning to their previous job, accounting for MBB placement on HKS website — this I do not know entirely, but is possible as well.

[GradSchoolGrad]

5 hours ago, Coffeetea said:

@GradSchoolGrad I don't know much about SAIS since I didn't apply, so I can't comment on those points. I was using what OP/Kyle said as an indicator that they might already know which school is better for them based on their articulated job aspirations. If you want to go into fringe policy or start-ups then definitely consider HKS, but if not, your points sound like general anecdotes that doesn't help with OP/Kyle and their specific situations from a purely academic/curriculum/program perspective - money is a whole other consideration.

Re: people running for office, those are people who ran decades ago and not people who are running now. 

@Coffeetea

The point I'm trying to make is the value of having career flexibility. Everyone goes into graduate school with a concept of what they want to do with it. However, most people I have seen at all the different programs make modifications (some big, some small) to what they originally wanted to go to school for and what they end up doing. What I'm trying to highlight is that the breadth of opportunity exposure is bigger at HKS period. Yes, I know people that went into grad school wanting to do international relations and came out wanting to do domestic and vice versa. Although, most often it is people who want to do international relations and change their area/topic of focus (or their domestic counterpart). 

I say this because I have met people that went to SAIS and by year 2 they are over their passion for international relations and are looking for opportunities outside of traditional international relations roles. My entire point is just to make sure the risks of going to a very focused program (SAIS) vs. a program with a broader career options (HKS) with consideration of your propensity for change (or lack there of). At the end of the day, no one can read the future, but I think it is important for people to know these trends.

ALSO... by running office, I mean office from local to federal (at all the different constituent sizes). My HKS friend actually ran for Congressional office one year after graduation. HKS has produced social media / press releases of their recent graduates who run for all office. Yes, I know people from other MPP programs who ran for office a few years out, but arguably, HKS has a disproportionate number of people who do so, and I find that interesting and awesome.

[GradSchoolGrad]

5 hours ago, KyleR said:

 

Edit: I mistakenly attributed some of the statements made by other posters to you, Coffeetea. Sorry about that. I'm going to leave the information below for people to consider in the future.

-This is a BCG webpage solely for the purpose of recruiting directly at HKS: https://www.bcg.com/careers/join/on-campus/harvard-kennedy-school.aspx. Why would this exist if they only wanted dual degree candidates?

-Here is a McKinsey Networking event held at HKS: https://www.mckinsey.com/careers/students/advanced-professional-degree-candidates/harvard-university This one is for MPA-IDs, but I have seen similar events for other programs in the past.

-Here is the most recent HKS career report, which segregates between dual-degree and solely HKS candidates. On page 5, note that MPP-only candidates placed in numerous consulting roles including MBB: https://www.hks.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/OCA/files/OCA_17_employment_snapshot_facingpages.pdf . The same goes for each of the reports available going back to 2014.

What you said about HKS students not being able to get through the interviews is an overgeneralization at best. Any consultant at these firms will tell you that candidates are on equal ground once they have secured an interview, regardless of background. Anecdotally, the current global managing partner at McKinsey came from a non-target law school.

 

@KyleR , I think it is important to understand why these things exist and the context behind them. 

1. Yes, MBB (mostly McKinsey and BCG) do indeed hire people from HKS single degree only students. One of my instructors in grad school was one of them. I know people that went through the MBB recruiting process (I even know some of the people referred to on the employment snapshot). I am not denying that MBB hires at HKS whatsoever. Every year these firms do get a reliable cohort of people from HKS single degree to go to theses firms. Yes, some of them do go far. MBB comes back because they know they get a reliable number that takes offers. It is reliable but from what I understand the # of people is in the single digits for single degree HKS folks, with the vast majority of those starting at the funnel not making it to the end of funnel (getting an offer). 

2. The jobs report however does not fully detail the process in which to get one of these full time offers and the funnel for it (which is pretty daunting) given the extent of interest.

A: You have to network into these MBB opportunities. This means someone from the consulting firm has to notice you, like you, and identify to the recruiter to put you on the short list. Yes, there are some on campus recruiting opportunities to do so. You can also get someone you know in the firm to write a letter of referral (I was armed with 2 of these to get my interview at BCG). It is more than just being liked. This is when having a compelling story matters. A compelling story is two parts. One is identifying sufficient academic background + work background to do good enough at a job + justifying a real interest in consulting. You don't have all those pieces together, you are done. Remember, you are also competing against people from other programs (including the MBAs). 

B: You have to spend a a good few months (that is recommended, granted there are ninjas who only prepared for two weeks or so) to prepare for case interviews. MPP people come at a disadvantage because lot of these are business concepts that non-business people don't necessarily have familiarity with. You need to be prepared to identify a business case for utilizing break even, ROI, profit margin, and etc. - both the math for it and justifying why you are taking a certain approach over another + tell a story behind the case. It sounds easy, but getting it to offer level takes that time and practice. Also, you need to masters how to manage behavioral interviews. 

C : You have to make first round interview. Usually the first round is with someone who has been at an MBB 3 to 8 year after graduate school. It is usually two cases with two separate people. They do start and end with some behavioral questions.

D : If you get selected for final interview, it is an interview with a partner. Half of this is behavioral, the other part is case. This is where they ask key questions about weaknesses on the application. For example, I know someone who had a a low GPA (like sub-3.0), but got into grad school via strong GMAT + work experience. The partner asked him to explain himself. I know people who failed to explain their weaknesses or didn't do so well with the behavioral get booted despite a case interview performance. 

E: At the end of each interview, they usually give points (or some form of points), and then they rank stack all the interviewees against the openings that are available. Now... I can't 100% say for sure if this applies to HKS, but in some places there openings numbers are for the entire pool of candidates. For example, as an HKS single degree person, getting an offer means having an post interview ranking among the number of openings available with other graduate degree / MBA/ dual degrees/etc. among all those interviewing. When I interviewed at BCG, there were people that were Engineering Masters and MBAs competing against me. So you are right, at the interview, it is all about how well you perform. However, you are competing across the board (at least in some of the firms). 

Bottom line, it is very possible to get an MBB role from HKS, but it is hard. It is even hard coming from HBS. I did the journey myself and it is one of those things that are way easier said than done. 

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by GradSchoolGrad

[Coffeetea]

On 3/29/2020 at 10:20 PM, GradSchoolGrad said:

@Coffeetea

The point I'm trying to make is the value of having career flexibility.

My HKS friend actually ran for Congressional office one year after graduation. HKS has produced social media / press releases of their recent graduates who run for all office. Yes, I know people from other MPP programs who ran for office a few years out, but arguably, HKS has a disproportionate number of people who do so, and I find that interesting and awesome.

Re: flexibility - great point, didn't consider that since I'm personally looking for programs more tailored to my interests.

And that's really awesome for your friend.

[Coffeetea]

On 3/29/2020 at 5:52 PM, KyleR said:

 

Edit: I mistakenly attributed some of the statements made by other posters to you, Coffeetea. Sorry about that. I'm going to leave the information below for people to consider in the future.

 

 

lol no worries, I'm an ex-consultant and would be the first one to say that if you want to do consulting post-MPP/MPA then definitely go to HKS. Without a doubt.

[GradSchoolGrad]

25 minutes ago, Coffeetea said:

Re: flexibility - great point, didn't consider that since I'm personally looking for programs more tailored to my interests.

And that's really awesome for your friend.

@Coffeetea...

That is the thing... when you get to grad school, a lot of people realize there is more to the world than they thought going in, and get interested in other things (or at least dabble). Most people I started in grad school with came out doing something at least slightly (in my case extremely) different than they thought they would. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by GradSchoolGrad