Advice for applying phd Philosophy 2021

[sadegh1370]

Hello

I am an international student and have two MA in philosophy (first one was a two years program back home and the second one was a one year program at Western University in Canada). I want to prepare my application for the following year (aiming Fall 2021), and have some questions and hope that people who passed this process could help me out:

1. My first question is regarding the importance of GPA. My undergrad GPA is not good and it was in another field (mechanical engineering), but my first in my first MA, I got 4 and in my second MA, I got 3.83. In my second MA I just have one B in first semester and all other grades are A according to the grading scale of Western University. I'm worry that might have negative impact on my application since I have an eye for some descent PhD programs.

2. How much GRE grades are important? I've recently started to study for GRE and want to take it in September. I wonder that how much GRE score is important so I can devise a good plan for it.

3. According to my GPA and let's say I manage to end up writing a good paper, can I consider top programs in my AOI or that would be highly improbable.

Thank you in advance for reading this thread. If you have any suggestions that help me to improve my application please do not hesitate to share.

[PolPhil]

1. I wouldn't worry too much about your grades. 1) There's nothing you can do about them. 2) Your MA grades are fine. 3) Grades aren't huge factor in philosophy admissions (compared to other fields)

2. GRE is a negligible component of your application, so long as you're not way below the median. If you're near or over the 80th percentile in all categories, it probably won't count against you

3. If you write a great paper, you have a chance at a top program. In philosophy admissions, two things matter: letters of recommendation, and the writing sample. Forget about your grades, and don't fret over your GRE. Focus on the letters and the sample. Only get letters from profs who gave you straight As, and make sure that your writing sample is looked over by your advisor/letter writers.

Source: a number of philosophers in the department of philosophy at the University of Chicago; plus, many sources online

[sadegh1370]

On 5/8/2020 at 9:21 PM, PolPhil said:

1. I wouldn't worry too much about your grades. 1) There's nothing you can do about them. 2) Your MA grades are fine. 3) Grades aren't huge factor in philosophy admissions (compared to other fields)

2. GRE is a negligible component of your application, so long as you're not way below the median. If you're near or over the 80th percentile in all categories, it probably won't count against you

3. If you write a great paper, you have a chance at a top program. In philosophy admissions, two things matter: letters of recommendation, and the writing sample. Forget about your grades, and don't fret over your GRE. Focus on the letters and the sample. Only get letters from profs who gave you straight As, and make sure that your writing sample is looked over by your advisor/letter writers.

Source: a number of philosophers in the department of philosophy at the University of Chicago; plus, many sources online

Thanks for your comment.

[Idiomorphic name]

On 5/9/2020 at 3:21 AM, PolPhil said:

1. I wouldn't worry too much about your grades. 1) There's nothing you can do about them. 2) Your MA grades are fine. 3) Grades aren't huge factor in philosophy admissions (compared to other fields)

2. GRE is a negligible component of your application, so long as you're not way below the median. If you're near or over the 80th percentile in all categories, it probably won't count against you

3. If you write a great paper, you have a chance at a top program. In philosophy admissions, two things matter: letters of recommendation, and the writing sample. Forget about your grades, and don't fret over your GRE. Focus on the letters and the sample. Only get letters from profs who gave you straight As, and make sure that your writing sample is looked over by your advisor/letter writers.

Source: a number of philosophers in the department of philosophy at the University of Chicago; plus, many sources online

What about publications? 

[tmck3053]

14 hours ago, Idiomorphic name said:

What about publications? 

At least at most analytic programs, publications will not matter unless they are in top journals. At that stage, if you've managed to get something published at a top journal then you should, one would expect, have an extremely good writing sample. 

[PolPhil]

15 hours ago, Idiomorphic name said:

What about publications? 

I definitely second the above comment. A publication in a top journal is a huge plus, but having no publications will not count against you. I doubt that even 10% of admitted applicants to top-3 PhD programs in philosophy have a publication in a top journal. Can't say that I've studied this issue scientifically, but I have looked at a lot of CVs.

Edited June 11, 2020 by PolPhil

[Glasperlenspieler]

1 hour ago, PolPhil said:

I definitely second the above comment. A publication in a top journal is a huge plus, but having no publications will not count against you. I doubt that even 10% of admitted applicants to top-3 PhD programs in philosophy have a publication in a top journal. Can't say that I've studied this issue scientifically, but I have looked at a lot of CVs.

And if you can't get an article published in a top journal at this stage of your career, there are good arguments for not publishing it in a lower tier journal just for the sake of having a publication.

[tmck3053]

43 minutes ago, Glasperlenspieler said:

And if you can't get an article published in a top journal at this stage of your career, there are good arguments for not publishing it in a lower tier journal just for the sake of having a publication.

This is a good point, though my sense is that it applies more as advice for the post-PhD job market than for pre-PhD applications. I could be wrong though.

[Glasperlenspieler]

56 minutes ago, tmck3053 said:

This is a good point, though my sense is that it applies more as advice for the post-PhD job market than for pre-PhD applications. I could be wrong though.

How so? I think my inclination would be to say the exact opposite (sorry if this is derailing the conversation). If a paper is not good enough to be published in a top journal that probably means either a) it will never be good enough to be published in a top journal or b) there's an idea there that could be published in a top journal, but it is not at the moment in a form that is ready for that. I'd say that as someone who has not yet entered a PhD program, it might be pretty hard to tell whether (a) or (b) is this case. But if it is (b), then the 5+ years you spend in a PhD program may be what you need to bring the idea to the next level. So why publish it prematurely in a subpar journal when, with added time and training, it could make it into a top journal? And if it's (a), then it might be something that 10 years down the line, you don't really want associated with your name or it could be something that is worth publishing in a lower tier journal nonetheless. But if it's the latter, given the uncertainty about which it is, why not just wait? 

Whereas I think the job market is now such that you really ought to have published *something*. So if the choice is between no publications (not counting book reviews) and an article in a lower tier journal, it might be worth just having the publication on your CV. But since publications on your CV aren't expected for PhD admissions, this situation doesn't really seem to apply there.

Now, there's also the situation that often things published before getting a tenure track job will not count toward your tenure profile. So, there certainly is some reason to also not publish *too* much before you get hired, but you're probably gonna need a couple publications to get hired for a TT position these days.

Anyway, that's my take. YMMV. In general, I think don't publish for the sake of publishing prior to the dissertation phase, but if a prof says that something might be worth submitting, then certainly take that advice seriously.

[tmck3053]

Apologies also if this is derailing the conversation. I think I agree with you for the most part. What I was thinking was that I have been told a couple of times re: the job market that for certain kinds of jobs (North American research jobs I suppose) that it would be better to have no publications and be on the market then to have a publication in a not-top place. The thought is supposed to be that if you are being evaluated in terms of your potential to produce work in top journals it's not a good sign that you have, given that there is not all that much time pressure on you during grad school (hah), chosen to publish it somewhere that isn't a top journal.

I mean I also think that the mindset that leads to this way of thinking is a little unhinged and it's not clear whether it is even correct as far as results go. But I suppose generally I was thinking, publications pre-grad school don't really reflect in any way upon you for grad school applications (or beyond), whereas the politics of publication location when you get to the job market seem a little more complicated. Of course you're right to say that settling for a not-top place for your paper if you haven't started grad school is maybe giving up the game too soon. I was mostly commenting on how it would be perceived, I think.

[Glasperlenspieler]

@tmck3053, I think we're pretty much on the same page. It's definitely an absurd game, and I don't want to defend it. Just trying to lay out the contours to the degree I understand them. I think you're right though that there are some Ivy-plus institutions that will hire people with perfect pedigrees and no publications but look down upon someone with a publication in a lower tier journal. I think publishing strategy is going vary depending on what sort of institutions you're getting your PhD from and what sorts of institutions you're applying to (and maybe subfield as well). I stand by my " if as a BA or MA student you can get published in a top tier journal, great. But if not, don't worry about it, sit on it, and just try to make it the best writing sample you can." But yeah, a lower tier publication definitely isn't going to sink your application, but I don't think it'll help all that much and there may be reasons to wait and see if you can do something more with it down the line. (The exception to this is that some subfields are really fast moving, such that a response paper may be very timely now, but maybe no one will care in 4 years. Idk, it's complicated).