Diplomat thinking about a master’s degree

[OliveT]

Hi guys,

I am hoping that I can use the wisdom in this forum to bust myths about some programs and decide which schools to apply to. I would love to hear your, especially alum’s, thoughts on the programs mentioned, whether I have incorrect assumptions about them, what I failed to consider, and, if possible, program recommendations (not limited to the those mentioned here.) Also, I'll be almost 30 year-old when submitting applications. Will being older negatively impact my chances of getting in?

I’ve been working as a diplomat for a small Asian country for the past five years and am hoping to apply for graduate programs such as MPP, MPA, MIA, etc. next year. I’m almost sure that I’ll return to foreign service after graduation. I am looking for a reputable program offering solid education, specifically in development studies, and a strong alumni network. 

(Not sure if it matters, but a bit info on my academic background: a BSc degree on quantitative economics with a GPA around 3.7 from a top state school in the US. Got a 750 on the GMAT.)

The following are some points I come up with a few programs that I’m interested in (regardless of the chance of getting in):

American schools like HKS and Columbia SIPA:

1. Pro- reputation is strong worldwide. As I’ll be coming back to Asia for sure, it might help.
2. Pro- wide range of courses. For example, I took a look at SIPA’s audit list and instantly saw many courses that fit my interests and career goal.
3. Pro (not so sure)- strong alumni network (?)
4. Con- expensive. Have to spend near 20k for two years; my employer will not sponsor my studies, so it is almost a deal-breaker for me. Also, I’m not sure how generous these programs are in terms of grants and how competitive my profile is in grant applications...

European schools like Science po PSIA and IHEID:

1. Pro- chance to polish my French. It’s my goal to be verse in a second foreign language since it will help with career advancement.
2. Pro- will probably leave the campus with much less debt. 
3. Not so sure- alumni networks seem to focus on Europe.
4. Not so sure- They are certainly very competitive and reputable programs, reputation is limited outside of Europe. 

Many thanks to those who read my long post and take time to reply. 

[GradSchoolGrad]

1. By being older + having so much interesting work experience, that actually helps your chances of getting into a program + possibly even getting scholarship.

2. Also, you will likely be the older 30%, but you won't be on extreme for age. In the US, it is very common to go to a professional graduate school after 5+ years of work experience.

3. Some schools might have exceptions to accept a GMAT, but the target test is GRE. You might want to check in if your target school accepts a GMAT.

4. I recommend you apply beyond just HKS and Columbia SIPA. At a minimum to see what other great schools you can get into and get scholarship money for. Some other schools I recommend you think about are: 

Georgetown School of Foreign Service

University of Chicago MPP

Johns Hopkins SAIS (if you don't mind lots of math)

With scholarship opportunities, the price might not be that bad for a US school anyway. 

5. If you must go to Europe, I really recommend you go to UK school instead. London School of Economics might be the best option for you. 

[OliveT]

8 hours ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

1. By being older + having so much interesting work experience, that actually helps your chances of getting into a program + possibly even getting scholarship.

2. Also, you will likely be the older 30%, but you won't be on extreme for age. In the US, it is very common to go to a professional graduate school after 5+ years of work experience.

3. Some schools might have exceptions to accept a GMAT, but the target test is GRE. You might want to check in if your target school accepts a GMAT.

4. I recommend you apply beyond just HKS and Columbia SIPA. At a minimum to see what other great schools you can get into and get scholarship money for. Some other schools I recommend you think about are: 

Georgetown School of Foreign Service

University of Chicago MPP

Johns Hopkins SAIS (if you don't mind lots of math)

With scholarship opportunities, the price might not be that bad for a US school anyway. 

5. If you must go to Europe, I really recommend you go to UK school instead. London School of Economics might be the best option for you. 

Thanks for replying. ?

1. May I ask why you recommend University of Chicago MPP? U of Chicago is definitely a prestigious school, but its MPP curriculum seems to cater to the domestic policy, doesn't it?  
2. If I am not mistaken, you seem to be less positive about European programs. What are the reasons?
3. What about the Fletcher school of diplomacy? 

I don't really mind math, but since I am not confident about my writing, I hope to become a better writer by writing a lot at grad school.

[GradSchoolGrad]

15 hours ago, OliveT said:

Thanks for replying. ?

1. May I ask why you recommend University of Chicago MPP? U of Chicago is definitely a prestigious school, but its MPP curriculum seems to cater to the domestic policy, doesn't it?  
2. If I am not mistaken, you seem to be less positive about European programs. What are the reasons?
3. What about the Fletcher school of diplomacy? 

I don't really mind math, but since I am not confident about my writing, I hope to become a better writer by writing a lot at grad school.

1. The MPP in general across the United States (even HKS) generally lean to domestic policy (at a minimum) as the foundational education. HOWEVER, it is very very very easy to take domestic US examples as analogies to almost any country. The skills you learn are universal. In fact, I have seen many international students find learning the US examples (or any examples outside of their country) as a helpful example. HOWEVER, if you want to learn about pure international relations and not necessarily the policy aspect of it (IR is part policy and part relations), an MPP might not be right for you.

2. Bottom line is that the mainland European programs don't have as much global brand recognition + are generally (very very generally speaking_ not as interdisciplinary + not as cutting edge. I encountered people in the non-UK Europeans schools. I found them to be terrific and smart people! HOWEVER... I found them to be more by the book than the average US/UK program rather than thinking about problems in more interdisciplinary, bold, and innovative ways.

3. I think Fletcher School of Diplomacy is going to struggle in the future. It is a school that has a great historic reputation, but doesn't fully leverage its strengths (other resources across Tufts) as it could. Also, it is not on the cutting edge with data capabilities (no big data program) or major intediscplinary focus). I mean it has a relationship with Harvard, but that is a relationship that they brag about... and not organically built into the program.

[OliveT]

6 hours ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

1. The MPP in general across the United States (even HKS) generally lean to domestic policy (at a minimum) as the foundational education. HOWEVER, it is very very very easy to take domestic US examples as analogies to almost any country. The skills you learn are universal. In fact, I have seen many international students find learning the US examples (or any examples outside of their country) as a helpful example. HOWEVER, if you want to learn about pure international relations and not necessarily the policy aspect of it (IR is part policy and part relations), an MPP might not be right for you.

2. Bottom line is that the mainland European programs don't have as much global brand recognition + are generally (very very generally speaking_ not as interdisciplinary + not as cutting edge. I encountered people in the non-UK Europeans schools. I found them to be terrific and smart people! HOWEVER... I found them to be more by the book than the average US/UK program rather than thinking about problems in more interdisciplinary, bold, and innovative ways.

3. I think Fletcher School of Diplomacy is going to struggle in the future. It is a school that has a great historic reputation, but doesn't fully leverage its strengths (other resources across Tufts) as it could. Also, it is not on the cutting edge with data capabilities (no big data program) or major intediscplinary focus). I mean it has a relationship with Harvard, but that is a relationship that they brag about... and not organically built into the program.

1. I am not that into IR theories, although they are closely related to what I do every day haha. Another question regarding Chicago is that, how much do you think the location matters? Georgetown, SAIS, SIPA, and even HKS seem to be closer to the political center (i.e., Washington D.C.).

2. This question is a bit of digression from the program discussion, but it keeps bothering me, so I figured I should still ask. That is, I am struggling to build an impactful extracurricular profile. I've been doing some translation jobs for NGOs and am learning several languages but nothing significant. How would you recommend that I approach the extracurricular section?

 

Thanks again for the detailed answer. I really appreciate it.

[GradSchoolGrad]

2 hours ago, OliveT said:

1. I am not that into IR theories, although they are closely related to what I do every day haha. Another question regarding Chicago is that, how much do you think the location matters? Georgetown, SAIS, SIPA, and even HKS seem to be closer to the political center (i.e., Washington D.C.).

2. This question is a bit of digression from the program discussion, but it keeps bothering me, so I figured I should still ask. That is, I am struggling to build an impactful extracurricular profile. I've been doing some translation jobs for NGOs and am learning several languages but nothing significant. How would you recommend that I approach the extracurricular section?

 

Thanks again for the detailed answer. I really appreciate it.

1. It is absolutely true that being closer to the "political center" gives you access to amazing speakers and guest lecturers who are in positions of power near the "political center". If you are an American that wanted a job as a Congressional staffer than I would recommend you to go to a DC school or HKS. HOWEVER, since I am assuming that you not be doing a job in the US, that factor isn't that important for you. Now it does indeed matter in terms of alumni. Those schools out in the East Coast will have more alumni in DC and New York + international locations. Here is the thing about Chicago MPP. I appreciate it for it being one of the more academic MPP program. If I were you and they give you more scholarship than a Georgetown or HKS, I would go to U. Chicago MPP. If everyone gives you the same, I would take location into consideration. 

2. I would think about:

1. Extracurricular activities you do at work. Beyond your main work responsibilities, if you do things like organize a volunteer program for your coworkers, organize social events for your coworkers, or etc. - I think you can count that. For example, if you are the head of the wine tasting club at work, that counts. 

2. Things you do for fun. If you run a card game program or a lead an organized bowling league that counts

3. If you aren't doing anything, I would recommend you start getting involved right now.

The thing about extracurricular activities is to show that you are human and good at interacting with people. Succeeding about graduate school at a professional program isn't about getting the best grades (granted that does have some marginal value). It is about building a network, having a life changing experience, and of course being empowered to get a good job. I know a lot of people who got the top grades but struggled to make friends, get interviews, and actually appreciate what they learned. So any extracurricular to show you are human (especially if it shows leadership skills), that is very helpful.

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by GradSchoolGrad

[OliveT]

On 7/4/2020 at 9:17 PM, GradSchoolGrad said:

1. It is absolutely true that being closer to the "political center" gives you access to amazing speakers and guest lecturers who are in positions of power near the "political center". If you are an American that wanted a job as a Congressional staffer than I would recommend you to go to a DC school or HKS. HOWEVER, since I am assuming that you not be doing a job in the US, that factor isn't that important for you. Now it does indeed matter in terms of alumni. Those schools out in the East Coast will have more alumni in DC and New York + international locations. Here is the thing about Chicago MPP. I appreciate it for it being one of the more academic MPP program. If I were you and they give you more scholarship than a Georgetown or HKS, I would go to U. Chicago MPP. If everyone gives you the same, I would take location into consideration. 

2. I would think about:

1. Extracurricular activities you do at work. Beyond your main work responsibilities, if you do things like organize a volunteer program for your coworkers, organize social events for your coworkers, or etc. - I think you can count that. For example, if you are the head of the wine tasting club at work, that counts. 

2. Things you do for fun. If you run a card game program or a lead an organized bowling league that counts

3. If you aren't doing anything, I would recommend you start getting involved right now.

The thing about extracurricular activities is to show that you are human and good at interacting with people. Succeeding about graduate school at a professional program isn't about getting the best grades (granted that does have some marginal value). It is about building a network, having a life changing experience, and of course being empowered to get a good job. I know a lot of people who got the top grades but struggled to make friends, get interviews, and actually appreciate what they learned. So any extracurricular to show you are human (especially if it shows leadership skills), that is very helpful.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

I took a closer look at the curriculum of Chicago Harris, and indeed it looks very robust. I can imagine if students can survive two years there, they will be well trained to conduct complex analytical work. 

It also seems to me that MPP at Harris (or UChicago’s reputation in general) is heavily quant-oriented? Since my gmat quant (49 points or 79%) and my major GPA (around 3.5ish in quantitative economic, and what I got in econometrics was not to mention...) aren’t that stellar compared to other top candidates. Would you recommend that I should strengthen my quantitative profile if I am to apply to Harris?

[GradSchoolGrad]

1 hour ago, OliveT said:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

I took a closer look at the curriculum of Chicago Harris, and indeed it looks very robust. I can imagine if students can survive two years there, they will be well trained to conduct complex analytical work. 

It also seems to me that MPP at Harris (or UChicago’s reputation in general) is heavily quant-oriented? Since my gmat quant (49 points or 79%) and my major GPA (around 3.5ish in quantitative economic, and what I got in econometrics was not to mention...) aren’t that stellar compared to other top candidates. Would you recommend that I should strengthen my quantitative profile if I am to apply to Harris?

Yes, Chicago is heavily quant oriented the fact that your GPA is so high and you actually have econometrics experience puts you in a good place (as long as you had a B+ or higher. Again, I don’t think GMAT is accepted for these programs. I would double check to make sure. You might need to take the GRE.

[OliveT]

26 minutes ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

Yes, Chicago is heavily quant oriented the fact that your GPA is so high and you actually have econometrics experience puts you in a good place (as long as you had a B+ or higher. Again, I don’t think GMAT is accepted for these programs. I would double check to make sure. You might need to take the GRE.

Thanks for reminding. I’ll definitely double check if I need to take the GRE. 

[OliveT]

On 7/3/2020 at 11:32 AM, GradSchoolGrad said:

1. By being older + having so much interesting work experience, that actually helps your chances of getting into a program + possibly even getting scholarship.

2. Also, you will likely be the older 30%, but you won't be on extreme for age. In the US, it is very common to go to a professional graduate school after 5+ years of work experience.

3. Some schools might have exceptions to accept a GMAT, but the target test is GRE. You might want to check in if your target school accepts a GMAT.

4. I recommend you apply beyond just HKS and Columbia SIPA. At a minimum to see what other great schools you can get into and get scholarship money for. Some other schools I recommend you think about are: 

Georgetown School of Foreign Service

University of Chicago MPP

Johns Hopkins SAIS (if you don't mind lots of math)

With scholarship opportunities, the price might not be that bad for a US school anyway. 

5. If you must go to Europe, I really recommend you go to UK school instead. London School of Economics might be the best option for you. 

Just wondering if I would like to (at least try to) build a skill set that’s marketable in the private sector (esp. in consulting, say Booz Allen and Deloitte, etc.) , what programs would you recommend?

I understand that an advanced degree alone cannot guarantee anything, as the chance also depends on recruiting preparation and my previous experiences, but still it would be great if I can attend a program that might potentially help with my transition from the public to private sector. 

From what I saw on the websites, Harris, HKS, and SAIS (specifically the international Econ and finance major) seem to have sent some people to consulting. However, since the exact numbers aren’t revealed, I was wondering if those who successfully passed the narrow door of consulting with a policy degree are anomalies. 

 

 

[GradSchoolGrad]

2 hours ago, OliveT said:

Just wondering if I would like to (at least try to) build a skill set that’s marketable in the private sector (esp. in consulting, say Booz Allen and Deloitte, etc.) , what programs would you recommend?

I understand that an advanced degree alone cannot guarantee anything, as the chance also depends on recruiting preparation and my previous experiences, but still it would be great if I can attend a program that might potentially help with my transition from the public to private sector. 

From what I saw on the websites, Harris, HKS, and SAIS (specifically the international Econ and finance major) seem to have sent some people to consulting. However, since the exact numbers aren’t revealed, I was wondering if those who successfully passed the narrow door of consulting with a policy degree are anomalies. 

 

 

First of all, it is becoming more common, but the people going to any consulting from policy school is still a small minority. You have to understand that the vast majority of those people that you speak of go into 2 types of consulting.

1. US Federal / Public Service consulting - this is the vast majority of the Deloitte and Booz Allen types. It is next to impossible to get one of these roles without being a US Citizen.

2. US commercial sector consulting, this is the McKinsey, BCG, and Bain and really the only 3 schools that you get to this are HKS, Princeton, and Harris. 

HOWEVER - the pipeline for this pre-Covid is pretty difficult, even if you went to one of those 3 schools. During COVID - it will be only more difficult as their talent demand has decreased.

Your chances for consulting will be better for outside of the US, where the competition is less stiff. I have known of people come to the US for graduate school and pivot to private sector consulting outside of the US. That will be your easiest route. 

If you really want to do consulting in the US, you will be better off doing an MBA, especially now. 

Edited September 4, 2020 by GradSchoolGrad

[prepedonline]

On 7/2/2020 at 8:42 AM, OliveT said:

Hi guys,

I am hoping that I can use the wisdom in this forum to bust myths about some programs and decide which schools to apply to. I would love to hear your, especially alum’s, thoughts on the programs mentioned, whether I have incorrect assumptions about them, what I failed to consider, and, if possible, program recommendations (not limited to the those mentioned here.) Also, I'll be almost 30 year-old when submitting applications. Will being older negatively impact my chances of getting in?

I’ve been working as a diplomat for a small Asian country for the past five years and am hoping to apply for graduate programs such as MPP, MPA, MIA, etc. next year. I’m almost sure that I’ll return to foreign service after graduation. I am looking for a reputable program offering solid education, specifically in development studies, and a strong alumni network. 

(Not sure if it matters, but a bit info on my academic background: a BSc degree on quantitative economics with a GPA around 3.7 from a top state school in the US. Got a 750 on the GMAT.)

The following are some points I come up with a few programs that I’m interested in (regardless of the chance of getting in):

American schools like HKS and Columbia SIPA:

1. Pro- reputation is strong worldwide. As I’ll be coming back to Asia for sure, it might help.
2. Pro- wide range of courses. For example, I took a look at SIPA’s audit list and instantly saw many courses that fit my interests and career goal.
3. Pro (not so sure)- strong alumni network (?)
4. Con- expensive. Have to spend near 20k for two years; my employer will not sponsor my studies, so it is almost a deal-breaker for me. Also, I’m not sure how generous these programs are in terms of grants and how competitive my profile is in grant applications...

European schools like Science po PSIA and IHEID:

1. Pro- chance to polish my French. It’s my goal to be verse in a second foreign language since it will help with career advancement.
2. Pro- will probably leave the campus with much less debt. 
3. Not so sure- alumni networks seem to focus on Europe.
4. Not so sure- They are certainly very competitive and reputable programs, reputation is limited outside of Europe. 

Many thanks to those who read my long post and take time to reply. 

 It is really very great you  secured 750 GMAT Score and you have a five year job experience too. its really right time for a change. you have to go through with your plan ans should apply in are reputed university wherever  you are eligible.  I wish you a bright future..