Please help me decide my future! (HKS MPP/HLS JD)

[punpun]

Type of student: Asian (Indonesian), female

Undergraduate school: Top 3 National University in Indonesia. I studied abroad for one semester at the National University of Singapore and Osaka University, which is why I'm going to graduate a year late compared to my peers.

Major: Public Administration (Bachelor of Arts in Public Administration); Thesis on Decentralization and COVID-19

GPA: 3.8/4.0

GRE: 338 (170 in Verbal, 168 in Quantitative)

TOEFL iBT: 118/120

Language skills: Proficient in English, Chinese (Simplified, HSK 4), Japanese (N3), Beginning in Korean

Quantitative courses: Introduction to Statistics (A), Economic System of Indonesia (A), Economic Development (AB), Public Sector Economics (AB)

Publications: For one year, I worked as a research assistant in my academic department, and I published five papers in peer-reviewed journals (Q2 and Q3) with my name as the second to third author. I conveyed the ideas and authored all of these full papers under the supervision of my professor (who is the first author because I worked under her and she was the one that reviewed my works before the submission). My research focus has been consistent on governance/government , public policy, women's public service leadership, e-government and women's leadership, as well as innovations in the public sector.

Work experience: I don't have any professional work experience, but I have a few internships in the public sector and in a research institution. My internships in the public sector vary from two to three months in the offices of the Supreme Court of Indonesia, the ASEAN Foundation, the Ministry of Law and Human Rights and the Ministry of State Secretariat. I have only one internship experience at a research institution called the Centre for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).

Tentative school: HKS MPP/HLS JD

Goal: I'm still confused about my future, which means I'm not sure which graduate school I'm supposed to take. I want to be a university lecturer, and I'm really interested in public policy and administrative law. I really want to apply to HKS MPP because it really matches my undergraduate studies and my subject of interest, but the school needs two to three full careers. I'm not confident about that, and I've been really confused about whether or not to take a chance at HKS MPP. I'd like to continue my studies straight out of college because that's what my parents are asking me to do. I consider HLS JD because I'm interested in administrative law, but I'm not sure about my candidacy and I especially don't want to practice law (as in becoming a lawyer). I want to be either public policy or administrative law lecturer in my home country. Since my aim is Harvard, based on my current profile, do you think I have a chance to go to Harvard? What is your advice for me? Should I be open to other schools (I'm not so familiar with that but I'm definitely open to know).

Thank you so much!

Edited August 17, 2020 by punpun

[GradSchoolGrad]

9 hours ago, punpun said:

Type of student: Asian (Indonesian), female

Undergraduate school: Top 3 National University in Indonesia. I studied abroad for one semester at the National University of Singapore and Osaka University, which is why I'm going to graduate a year late compared to my peers.

Major: Public Administration (Bachelor of Arts in Public Administration); Thesis on Decentralization and COVID-19

GPA: 3.8/4.0

GRE: 338 (170 in Verbal, 168 in Quantitative)

TOEFL iBT: 118/120

Language skills: Proficient in English, Chinese (Simplified, HSK 4), Japanese (N3), Beginning in Korean

Quantitative courses: Introduction to Statistics (A), Economic System of Indonesia (A), Economic Development (AB), Public Sector Economics (AB)

Publications: For one year, I worked as a research assistant in my academic department, and I published five papers in peer-reviewed journals (Q2 and Q3) with my name as the second to third author. I conveyed the ideas and authored all of these full papers under the supervision of my professor (who is the first author because I worked under her and she was the one that reviewed my works before the submission). My research focus has been consistent on governance/government , public policy, women's public service leadership, e-government and women's leadership, as well as innovations in the public sector.

Work experience: I don't have any professional work experience, but I have a few internships in the public sector and in a research institution. My internships in the public sector vary from two to three months in the offices of the Supreme Court of Indonesia, the ASEAN Foundation, the Ministry of Law and Human Rights and the Ministry of State Secretariat. I have only one internship experience at a research institution called the Centre for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).

Tentative school: HKS MPP/HLS JD

Goal: I'm still confused about my future, which means I'm not sure which graduate school I'm supposed to take. I want to be a university lecturer, and I'm really interested in public policy and administrative law. I really want to apply to HKS MPP because it really matches my undergraduate studies and my subject of interest, but the school needs two to three full careers. I'm not confident about that, and I've been really confused about whether or not to take a chance at HKS MPP. I'd like to continue my studies straight out of college because that's what my parents are asking me to do. I consider HLS JD because I'm interested in administrative law, but I'm not sure about my candidacy and I especially don't want to practice law (as in becoming a lawyer). I want to be either public policy or administrative law lecturer in my home country. Since my aim is Harvard, based on my current profile, do you think I have a chance to go to Harvard? What is your advice for me? Should I be open to other schools (I'm not so familiar with that but I'm definitely open to know).

Thank you so much!

1. My first thought is that JD is imply a terrible idea. Joint JD/MPP is 4 years of education. The 3 years of JD would essentially be a waste of time for you because it teaches American jurisprudence and there is a reason why US law schools generally have so few international students. People don't get a JD to teach. People get a JD to practice law or do non-bar requiring jobs that still have a tie in to the American system of regulation/legality. 

2. I don't know enough about how HKS looks at international students so I can't comment if you can get in or not. Traditionally, very few people have matriculated to HKS straight from undergraduate (I have heard the statistics of  2% straight from undergrad pre-COVID or something like that... but that also includes US federally sponsored scholarship students -i.e. Pickering or Rangel Fellowship). 

I will say that if your intent is to stay in the US via OPT, you will be graduating HKS (or any other public policy school) at a major disadvantage because you have so little work experience, it will be difficult for you to acquire work unless you just happen to occupy a niche space that is highly in demand - you should know .

3. It is also very concerning that you have shot for Harvard HKS and haven't thought of any backups or alternative considerations. I strongly recommend you consider if the Harvard HKS student culture is really what you want. Maybe you might do better in a smaller school environment at Princeton or a more academic environment of Harris. Or maybe you might want to go for a big city life like SIPA. Chasing for a brand usually doesn't work well. 

[Yass]

16 hours ago, punpun said:

Type of student: Asian (Indonesian), female

Undergraduate school: Top 3 National University in Indonesia. I studied abroad for one semester at the National University of Singapore and Osaka University, which is why I'm going to graduate a year late compared to my peers.

Major: Public Administration (Bachelor of Arts in Public Administration); Thesis on Decentralization and COVID-19

GPA: 3.8/4.0

GRE: 338 (170 in Verbal, 168 in Quantitative)

TOEFL iBT: 118/120

Language skills: Proficient in English, Chinese (Simplified, HSK 4), Japanese (N3), Beginning in Korean

Quantitative courses: Introduction to Statistics (A), Economic System of Indonesia (A), Economic Development (AB), Public Sector Economics (AB)

Publications: For one year, I worked as a research assistant in my academic department, and I published five papers in peer-reviewed journals (Q2 and Q3) with my name as the second to third author. I conveyed the ideas and authored all of these full papers under the supervision of my professor (who is the first author because I worked under her and she was the one that reviewed my works before the submission). My research focus has been consistent on governance/government , public policy, women's public service leadership, e-government and women's leadership, as well as innovations in the public sector.

Work experience: I don't have any professional work experience, but I have a few internships in the public sector and in a research institution. My internships in the public sector vary from two to three months in the offices of the Supreme Court of Indonesia, the ASEAN Foundation, the Ministry of Law and Human Rights and the Ministry of State Secretariat. I have only one internship experience at a research institution called the Centre for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).

Tentative school: HKS MPP/HLS JD

Goal: I'm still confused about my future, which means I'm not sure which graduate school I'm supposed to take. I want to be a university lecturer, and I'm really interested in public policy and administrative law. I really want to apply to HKS MPP because it really matches my undergraduate studies and my subject of interest, but the school needs two to three full careers. I'm not confident about that, and I've been really confused about whether or not to take a chance at HKS MPP. I'd like to continue my studies straight out of college because that's what my parents are asking me to do. I consider HLS JD because I'm interested in administrative law, but I'm not sure about my candidacy and I especially don't want to practice law (as in becoming a lawyer). I want to be either public policy or administrative law lecturer in my home country. Since my aim is Harvard, based on my current profile, do you think I have a chance to go to Harvard? What is your advice for me? Should I be open to other schools (I'm not so familiar with that but I'm definitely open to know).

Thank you so much!

I'd second that what GradSchoolGrad said and also recommend to apply to a few more schools. 3-5 is a good number so you have some other options to choose from and can compare scholarship offers.

For HKS it is less common to get in straight from undergrad but it is not impossible. For SIPA and SAIS it is more likely so you should have a better shot there. 

On the other hand, you do have a few things that speak for you such as your very good GRE and TOEFL scores and you also speak several languages and have done internships in the public sector as well as a research institution. 

For the motivation letter it is very important that you know where you want to be in the future and how you want to contribute to the world/society. So you need a clear picture of what you want to get out of the degree and why it is a good idea to pursue an MPP or JD respectively and how it is going to help you achieve your gaol of becoming a lecturer. 

It is a bit unclear to me right now why you need a degree from the US to become a lecturer in your home country? The MPP is a professional degree and not so much theoretical or research focused. It enables you to work on practical policy issues and is not necessarily the best stepping stone for a PhD so if you really want to become a professor/lecturer in the future, a different degree might better suit your future goals. 

Please feel free to ask me anything about the schools I applied to. All the best.

[punpun]

Thank you so much for all of your responses and great advices!

I'm going to try to tell you my current circumstances so maybe you can help me figure things out!

I have no intention of staying in the United States via OPT or any other means since I have secured an Indonesian scholarship that requires me to go back to my country as soon as I finish my Master's degree. Also, the reason why I want to pursue a degree from the United States is that I believe there are much better mental health services in the United States than any other country, or at least in contrast to my country. I have severe depression and I take medication every day to get my life together, and the only reason I've managed to get my current GRE and TOEFL iBT score is that I'm in a good shape from taking my medication. I need to have access to mental health services, and I believe that the United States is the place for that. I know that Europe is also great for its mental health services, but my medicines are a little less popular and not widely available. It's something that is of concern to me, and why I decided to choose the United States to continue my studies.

While my current goal is to be a lecturer in my home country, I'm also open to public sector careers. I might have to do away with the JD program since it only teaches American legislation, which is not as applicable in Indonesia, but I'm still fixed on the MPP program. My reason for a career in the public sector: As a minority (fourth generation migrant) in Indonesia, I want to create a better bureaucratic system where minorities are not discriminated against in the public labor market system and can participate equally in its political system. My reason for a career as a lecturer: As a privileged individual, I want to take advantage of my privilege for a better cause by participating in open knowledge and open education resources. With these two means, I want to improve literacy in Indonesia, and I believe that my career as a lecturer at my university can achieve this goal.

Which are your advices for me after hearing this? Would love to know! Thank you so much!

[GradSchoolGrad]

1 hour ago, punpun said:

Thank you so much for all of your responses and great advices!

I'm going to try to tell you my current circumstances so maybe you can help me figure things out!

I have no intention of staying in the United States via OPT or any other means since I have secured an Indonesian scholarship that requires me to go back to my country as soon as I finish my Master's degree. Also, the reason why I want to pursue a degree from the United States is that I believe there are much better mental health services in the United States than any other country, or at least in contrast to my country. I have severe depression and I take medication every day to get my life together, and the only reason I've managed to get my current GRE and TOEFL iBT score is that I'm in a good shape from taking my medication. I need to have access to mental health services, and I believe that the United States is the place for that. I know that Europe is also great for its mental health services, but my medicines are a little less popular and not widely available. It's something that is of concern to me, and why I decided to choose the United States to continue my studies.

While my current goal is to be a lecturer in my home country, I'm also open to public sector careers. I might have to do away with the JD program since it only teaches American legislation, which is not as applicable in Indonesia, but I'm still fixed on the MPP program. My reason for a career in the public sector: As a minority (fourth generation migrant) in Indonesia, I want to create a better bureaucratic system where minorities are not discriminated against in the public labor market system and can participate equally in its political system. My reason for a career as a lecturer: As a privileged individual, I want to take advantage of my privilege for a better cause by participating in open knowledge and open education resources. With these two means, I want to improve literacy in Indonesia, and I believe that my career as a lecturer at my university can achieve this goal.

Which are your advices for me after hearing this? Would love to know! Thank you so much!

So I think these are the things you should think about:

1. You should probably limit yourself to programs in big cities or those with have major hospitals given your medical condition.

2. I think you need to be more clear exactly what you want to focus on. Is it more about policy administration or public policy formulation analysis? Those are two related but distinctly different things. Administrative law is generally broken down by type legal category (i.e. labor law, education law, or etc. in the US). 

If you are interested policy administration, you might want to think about getting an MPA. If you want to focus on policy formulation, an MPP is right for you.

3. Since you have no interest in staying in the US, I then strongly recommend that you only consider programs that have a historically large international student population. Preferably one that is diverse too. By diverse, I mean you don't have the international student population dominated (66%+) by students from one country. 

So examples:

- HKS

- SIPA (Columbia)

- Harris (Chicago)

- Goldman (UC Berkeley) 

[punpun]

Hey, GradSchoolGrad! Thank you so much for your information and the tremendous assistance you have given me on my thread! It really helped me to prepare what I want to do in the future, so thanks a lot! I do have a few questions to ask, though.

1. Since my graduation date is December 2020 and most of the schools that I'm aiming for have passed the deadline for applications, I've decided to work first and apply by 2021. I've just been accepted as a risk management officer by a regional intergovernmental organization in my country and will begin in January 2021. Let's say, if I'm aiming for HKS, SIPA, Goldman, and Harris (MPP) by 2021, do I have a chance at one of these schools?
2. In terms of resume, I actually had two working experiences in Japan, where I worked as a student intern in private companies. Should I include that if I want to take MPP, given that they really put the emphasis on public services?
3. In terms of resume, since I have one year of experience studying abroad at NUS and Osaka University (one semester respectively), should I include both of these in my resume? I think it might be a good idea to include NUS since I took five economic subjects during my exchange (it was pure economics, though, and had nothing to do with mathematics/statistics, but I suppose, it might be a good idea to represent my quantitative scores). I'm not sure about Osaka University since I was affiliated to the School of Law and took only law subjects, but is it still a good idea to include it in my resume? What do you think?
4. Particularly considering my GPA, GRE/TOEFL iBT scores, Q2/Q3 journal publications, previous work internships and prospective work experience, what should I do to improve my candidacy at one of these schools? How important are publications to them, especially from undergraduate students? And if I take the job offer to work as a risk management officer in a regional intergovernmental organization, will my candidacy be enhanced?

I know there seem to be a lot of questions, but I would really appreciate it if you could help me! Thank you so much for that!!!

[GradSchoolGrad]

19 hours ago, punpun said:

Hey, GradSchoolGrad! Thank you so much for your information and the tremendous assistance you have given me on my thread! It really helped me to prepare what I want to do in the future, so thanks a lot! I do have a few questions to ask, though.

1. Since my graduation date is December 2020 and most of the schools that I'm aiming for have passed the deadline for applications, I've decided to work first and apply by 2021. I've just been accepted as a risk management officer by a regional intergovernmental organization in my country and will begin in January 2021. Let's say, if I'm aiming for HKS, SIPA, Goldman, and Harris (MPP) by 2021, do I have a chance at one of these schools?
2. In terms of resume, I actually had two working experiences in Japan, where I worked as a student intern in private companies. Should I include that if I want to take MPP, given that they really put the emphasis on public services?
3. In terms of resume, since I have one year of experience studying abroad at NUS and Osaka University (one semester respectively), should I include both of these in my resume? I think it might be a good idea to include NUS since I took five economic subjects during my exchange (it was pure economics, though, and had nothing to do with mathematics/statistics, but I suppose, it might be a good idea to represent my quantitative scores). I'm not sure about Osaka University since I was affiliated to the School of Law and took only law subjects, but is it still a good idea to include it in my resume? What do you think?
4. Particularly considering my GPA, GRE/TOEFL iBT scores, Q2/Q3 journal publications, previous work internships and prospective work experience, what should I do to improve my candidacy at one of these schools? How important are publications to them, especially from undergraduate students? And if I take the job offer to work as a risk management officer in a regional intergovernmental organization, will my candidacy be enhanced?

I know there seem to be a lot of questions, but I would really appreciate it if you could help me! Thank you so much for that!!!

1. I strongly recommend you come into any graduate school with at least 1 year's work experience. That being said, it makes the most sense for you to apply to enter in Fall 2022. For the following reasons:

a. You have ~1 year of solid work experience by the time you apply - making you more competitive

b. I could be completely wrong because I can't predict the future, but the general thought is that Fall 2021 entry year group will be insanely competitive as a lot of Americans seek to take refuge from the recession by going to graduate school. 

2. You are thinking about applying to graduate school all wrong. Right now you are just targeting brand names and top academic experiences. You don't have a compelling story why any of these school mentioned fit you and why you deserve a chance to get into these schools. I recommend you:

a. better understand how each graduate school option can best prepare you for your career and experience goals. You can do this by just talking to students at each school. Most school admissions officers have student ambassador programs whereby you can talk to students and learn about the pros and cons of each school. I recommend you take advantage of that.

3. Your resume is about telling the story and not about the details. Stop worrying about the small details... I mean some details really matter - test scores, GPA, career experience and etc. However you need to make sure it weaves well with the story you are trying put forward with your recommenders, statement of intent, and interview (if there is one). Oh and of course... always be truthful. 

 

 

[EscapingBrexit]

1 hour ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

1. I strongly recommend you come into any graduate school with at least 1 year's work experience. That being said, it makes the most sense for you to apply to enter in Fall 2022. For the following reasons:

a. You have ~1 year of solid work experience by the time you apply - making you more competitive

b. I could be completely wrong because I can't predict the future, but the general thought is that Fall 2021 entry year group will be insanely competitive as a lot of Americans seek to take refuge from the recession by going to graduate school. 

2. You are thinking about applying to graduate school all wrong. Right now you are just targeting brand names and top academic experiences. You don't have a compelling story why any of these school mentioned fit you and why you deserve a chance to get into these schools. I recommend you:

a. better understand how each graduate school option can best prepare you for your career and experience goals. You can do this by just talking to students at each school. Most school admissions officers have student ambassador programs whereby you can talk to students and learn about the pros and cons of each school. I recommend you take advantage of that.

3. Your resume is about telling the story and not about the details. Stop worrying about the small details... I mean some details really matter - test scores, GPA, career experience and etc. However you need to make sure it weaves well with the story you are trying put forward with your recommenders, statement of intent, and interview (if there is one). Oh and of course... always be truthful. 

 

 

This is fantastic advice. Please heed it! You will likely get far more out of your graduate school experience by considering these points. 

[punpun]

11 hours ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

1. I strongly recommend you come into any graduate school with at least 1 year's work experience. That being said, it makes the most sense for you to apply to enter in Fall 2022. For the following reasons:

a. You have ~1 year of solid work experience by the time you apply - making you more competitive

b. I could be completely wrong because I can't predict the future, but the general thought is that Fall 2021 entry year group will be insanely competitive as a lot of Americans seek to take refuge from the recession by going to graduate school. 

2. You are thinking about applying to graduate school all wrong. Right now you are just targeting brand names and top academic experiences. You don't have a compelling story why any of these school mentioned fit you and why you deserve a chance to get into these schools. I recommend you:

a. better understand how each graduate school option can best prepare you for your career and experience goals. You can do this by just talking to students at each school. Most school admissions officers have student ambassador programs whereby you can talk to students and learn about the pros and cons of each school. I recommend you take advantage of that.

3. Your resume is about telling the story and not about the details. Stop worrying about the small details... I mean some details really matter - test scores, GPA, career experience and etc. However you need to make sure it weaves well with the story you are trying put forward with your recommenders, statement of intent, and interview (if there is one). Oh and of course... always be truthful. 

 

 

Thank you so much for that. You're really great at pointing things up, and you're very right. Right now, I'm just aiming at brand names and top academic experiences because that's what my parents wanted me to do. Perhaps getting a job could improve my knowledge and broaden my horizon. Again, thank you so much for helping me shape my future. I'm wishing all the good things to you!

[ExponentialDecay]

This is a strange question. MPP and JD are very different degrees and lead to very different careers. If you are not sure which one is right for you, the answer is probably neither - for now. Getting an American law degree without plans to work in America is particularly strange, especially when you are not looking at financial law, contracts law or another area where being barred in the state of New York could be relevant. It does not seem to me like you are ready for grad school. If in Indonesia it is hard to find a job without a masters, I would recommend getting a local masters and going to the US once you have a better idea of what you want to do. I get that you got a scholarship, but life in America is very expensive, this is an investment of 2-3 years, and you really want to go once you can take the best advantage of the opportunities you are given.

[GradSchoolGrad]

On 8/21/2020 at 10:15 AM, punpun said:

Thank you so much for that. You're really great at pointing things up, and you're very right. Right now, I'm just aiming at brand names and top academic experiences because that's what my parents wanted me to do. Perhaps getting a job could improve my knowledge and broaden my horizon. Again, thank you so much for helping me shape my future. I'm wishing all the good things to you!

Just an additional thought. Giving your clinical condition, you may want to think about going abroad for graduate school from a mental health prospective. Going abroad for graduate school is stressful no matter what. On top of that, the American graduate school experience is decently different than other graduate school systems (including UK, CAN, and AUS). I have seen plenty of international students (without clinical conditions to the best of my knowledge) get completely stressed out with adapting to an educational experience they are completely unfamiliar with. 

You and your medical professionals know yourself better than I do. I just want to remind you that no matter where in the US you go for graduate school, it will be a stressful experience, at least in the beginning. Those who can manage the high stress generally grow to like the experience. However, I have known a few who persistently struggle.