What are my chances?

[EyelandPychePhD]

Clinical or Counseling Psychology PhD Applicant (APA Accredited only), applying in December 2020 for 2021 Fall Enrollment: All APA Accredited Programs in Colorado, Utah, some in California, (exact schools TBD—I am noticing that due to COVID-19 some are not accepting students.... Hence, the anxiety which provoked me to right this post)
 

I hope this gets more comments than eye-rolls: yes this is another (but my first) self-indulgent “what are my chances” post... and yes, it is 3am... Clearly more sleeping and less worrying would increase my chances of doing what I need to do to optimize my chances of being accepted into a PhD program...BUT, instead I’m going to indulge myself by asking the GP what you all think my chances might be on paper, of getting in:

Things I have going for me: 

-Graduated high school at age 16; subsequently went to Brown University where I graduated at age 20 (somewhat unique)...but did NOT study psychology. I graduated with a B.A. in “Literary Arts” (writing) and a B.A. in “Modern Culture & Media, Theory Track” (basically, the psychology of digital writing, branding, and media).... My grades were good in undergrad but they do not calculate GPA at Brown. But I got A’s, with a few B’s. I think I could write a good personal statement connecting my path through those two majors (inclination toward understanding human nature/cognition/expression), eventually leading to the unveiling of my true passion—psychology. —Age 20, May 2014, graduated undergrad.

-Age 20-22– backpacked/travelled abroad

-Age 21-23- worked as a coordinator for a substance abuse prevention program in my hometown (Block Island, RI)

-Age 23- Accepted to Columbia University Postbacc Premedical Program (wanted to segway into Psychiatry via med school). I attended this program for one year while volunteering in New York Columbia Presbyterian Hospital’s Emergency room, and decided I wanted to pursue psychology instead after seeing both positions in action first hand

-Age 24-26 (I am 26 now)- Transferred to Columbia University Teachers College for Masters degree in Clinical Psychology. I specialized in “Spirit-Mind Body” Psychology but also took all the perquisites for Clin Psyche PhD programs. I got all As (and some A+), except for just one class in which I did get one B+. Got a A in Statistics and an A in Research Methods. (Teachers College does not calculate GPA). Graduated with an M.A. in Clinical Psychology in May 2020.

-Research Experience: Sept 2018-June 2019- worked for an academic year as a research assistant for an Asthma Eduction Study in which I worked with inner City children with severe asthma using techniques such as motivational interviewing. Study was through Columbia School of Nursing.

-Research Experience: Started working at New York State Psychiatric Institute at a clinic called Columbia Schizophrenia Research Center as an RA/Recruiter. We run several clinical trials for Schizophrenia patients. I am working there at present and have worked there since June 2019.

Letters of Rec: I should be able to get a strong letter of rec from the PI at Columbia Schizophrenia Research Center, as well as from my boss’s boss (who is the director of the NYSPI, as well as the chairman of Columbia Psychiatry and the first author of the DSM-5). I can also most likely get a letter of Rec from Dan Tomasulo, a well known Positive Psychologist who was my professor at TC, and has since been appointed as director of the program at Columbia TC where I got my Masters. I could get a few other strong letters of rec as well. 
 

Publications: just 1 paper, and I am FAR down the list of authors (see paper, initials MC)- but it is a high impact journal: https://jpbs.hapres.com/htmls/JPBS_1287_Detail.html

I am also writing a Lexicon of spiritual/psychology-related concepts, organized like a glossary of over 777 terms from my field of interest. Around 300 pages long....Most “definitions” for these 777 words will explain in my words what the concept means, with some examples, and will also reference other peer-reviewed journal articles/well-known texts for further reading. So in that sense it’s almost like a gigantic Lit Review of everything I’ve learned in my career. Writing is my strength and the book will be of professional academic quality. It is feasible to complete it by Nov 2020 for Dec application deadlines, as it has been in a work in progress for 2 years.

Clinical Volunteer Hours: Several continuous months volunteering in psychiatric ER as an unofficial recreational therapist (mainly art therapy). Started in Dec 2019 through March 2020. In March I had to stop going in person, so switched to virtual volunteering via phone calls instead. I will have at least 120 hours as a volunteer by December’s deadline.

GRE: I took the GRE completely blindly (did not study at ALL, on purpose to get a baseline. Got 155 V, 149 Q, 4.5 AW.

 

 

phew!!!! That was a lot. THANK YOU to anyone who took the time to read my boring bio, I really appreciate it! I have been putting so much pressure on myself because I know that having not published a paper myself is a possible weak point in my app. I also have only 3 months to bring those GRE scores up to a competitive percentile. Doable.... but still stressful. Also the fact that I didn’t major in Psychology undergrad could be seen as a weak point but I think in my statement I can argue that it’s a strength. But all that said, what do you think my chances are? Does this sound competitive or not so much?

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by EyelandPychePhD
Typo

[SoundofSilence]

Hello there! 

Let's take it one at a time

1 hour ago, EyelandPychePhD said:

Clinical or Counseling Psychology PhD Applicant (APA Accredited only), applying in December 2020 for 2021 Fall Enrollment: All APA Accredited Programs in Colorado, Utah, some in California, (exact schools TBD—I am noticing that due to COVID-19 some are not accepting students.... Hence, the anxiety which provoked me to right this post)
 

It's great that you are looking into APA accredited programs only - make sure you check their internship match rates, funding, etc. You've probably looked into that, but it's worth mentioning. 

1 hour ago, EyelandPychePhD said:

-Graduated high school at age 16; subsequently went to Brown University where I graduated at age 20 (somewhat unique)...but did NOT study psychology. I graduated with a B.A. in “Literary Arts” (writing) and a B.A. in “Modern Culture & Media, Theory Track” (basically, the psychology of digital writing, branding, and media).... My grades were good in undergrad but they do not calculate GPA at Brown. But I got A’s, with a few B’s. I think I could write a good personal statement connecting my path through those two majors (inclination toward understanding human nature/cognition/expression), eventually leading to the unveiling of my true passion—psychology. —Age 20, May 2014, graduated undergrad.

-Age 20-22– backpacked/travelled abroad

-Age 21-23- worked as a coordinator for a substance abuse prevention program in my hometown (Block Island, RI)

-Age 23- Accepted to Columbia University Postbacc Premedical Program (wanted to segway into Psychiatry via med school). I attended this program for one year while volunteering in New York Columbia Presbyterian Hospital’s Emergency room, and decided I wanted to pursue psychology instead after seeing both positions in action first hand

-Age 24-26 (I am 26 now)- Transferred to Columbia University Teachers College for Masters degree in Clinical Psychology. I specialized in “Spirit-Mind Body” Psychology but also took all the perquisites for Clin Psyche PhD programs. I got all As (and some A+), except for just one class in which I did get one B+. Got a A in Statistics and an A in Research Methods. (Teachers College does not calculate GPA). Graduated with an M.A. in Clinical Psychology in May 2020.

The MA degree is a big selling point and should compensate for not taking psych undergrad classes. However, make sure you check each program, because some require an undergrad thesis or similar.

Caveat here - personal statements for PhD programs are a little different than undergrad ones for admissions; while the path of how you decided between psychiatry and psychology can be a great addition, the backpacking/travelling may not. Reputable PhD programs, even balanced ones, are way more focused on your research experience, your research ideas and what skills you bring to the program.

1 hour ago, EyelandPychePhD said:

-Research Experience: Sept 2018-June 2019- worked for an academic year as a research assistant for an Asthma Eduction Study in which I worked with inner City children with severe asthma using techniques such as motivational interviewing. Study was through Columbia School of Nursing.

-Research Experience: Started working at New York State Psychiatric Institute at a clinic called Columbia Schizophrenia Research Center as an RA/Recruiter. We run several clinical trials for Schizophrenia patients. I am working there at present and have worked there since June 2019.

Letters of Rec: I should be able to get a strong letter of rec from the PI at Columbia Schizophrenia Research Center, as well as from my boss’s boss (who is the director of the NYSPI, as well as the chairman of Columbia Psychiatry and the first author of the DSM-5). I can also most likely get a letter of Rec from Dan Tomasulo, a well known Positive Psychologist who was my professor at TC, and has since been appointed as director of the program at Columbia TC where I got my Masters. I could get a few other strong letters of rec as well. 
 

 

The letters of recommendation sound great - ensure that they talk about you as a research assistant and what you've learned and how you've grown; just because someone is famous/known expert, it does not translate into a great letter for you. Of course, the equation changes if these famous PIs are known to the programs where you apply or have good connections there.

1 hour ago, EyelandPychePhD said:

Publications: just 1 paper, and I am FAR down the list of authors (see paper, initials MC)- but it is a high impact journal: https://jpbs.hapres.com/htmls/JPBS_1287_Detail.html

A paper is great. Do you have posters as well? Or any avenue where you can present some of the work to bolster it further?

1 hour ago, EyelandPychePhD said:

I am also writing a Lexicon of spiritual/psychology-related concepts, organized like a glossary of over 777 terms from my field of interest. Around 300 pages long....Most “definitions” for these 777 words will explain in my words what the concept means, with some examples, and will also reference other peer-reviewed journal articles/well-known texts for further reading. So in that sense it’s almost like a gigantic Lit Review of everything I’ve learned in my career. Writing is my strength and the book will be of professional academic quality. It is feasible to complete it by Nov 2020 for Dec application deadlines, as it has been in a work in progress for 2 years.

You seem to be interested in spiritual concepts (looking at this + the Spirit Mind Body specialization in the MA). While there is nothing wrong with that, what I'd like to stress is that it's important you go into the application process with clearly defined interests. If you'd like to continue research on schizophrenia, you probably have a good case for that already, if you want to research something else, just make sure your "story" is detailed enough so that POIs aren't confused regarding what you want. 

1 hour ago, EyelandPychePhD said:

Clinical Volunteer Hours: Several continuous months volunteering in psychiatric ER as an unofficial recreational therapist (mainly art therapy). Started in Dec 2019 through March 2020. In March I had to stop going in person, so switched to virtual volunteering via phone calls instead. I will have at least 120 hours as a volunteer by December’s deadline.

GRE: I took the GRE completely blindly (did not study at ALL, on purpose to get a baseline. Got 155 V, 149 Q, 4.5 AW.

 

Volunteer hours are great for more balanced programs and counselling, but they may be less relevant for more clinical science orientations. 

The baseline GREs don't look too bad - with some study and your background you will have a great V and AW score and your Q can increase nicely with some practice. So this should be good. Do a lot of practice problems though, besides the original PowerPrep. Those are too easy compared to how the GRE is right now.

1 hour ago, EyelandPychePhD said:

 

phew!!!! That was a lot. THANK YOU to anyone who took the time to read my boring bio, I really appreciate it! I have been putting so much pressure on myself because I know that having not published a paper myself is a possible weak point in my app. I also have only 3 months to bring those GRE scores up to a competitive percentile. Doable.... but still stressful. Also the fact that I didn’t major in Psychology undergrad could be seen as a weak point but I think in my statement I can argue that it’s a strength. But all that said, what do you think my chances are? Does this sound competitive or not so much?

 

Overall, you seem to have a strong application (with the caveat that it's just my own opinion). However, interviews and admission are not guaranteed for anyone. 

To ensure best results, I would approach this in two ways - first, ask your supervisors/ letter writers about contacts they may have at different schools or which programs they would recommend that match your interests. Networking is a way that many people use to get noticed in this competitive process.

Second, make sure your application package tells one cohesive story regarding your interests - what you'd like to research during the doctoral program, what you'd like to do in the future with the degree, what is the impact, etc. 

Third/optional step - you can contact POIs ahead of time and see if you can understand how you'd fit into their lab, what you can bring to the table and how they can help you reach where you want to go.

Hope this helps. Best of luck!

[SendMeAnEmailPlz]

You'll need to calculate your gpa for undergrad and masters. You have to report this even if your schools didn't calculate it. I recommend you remove names of schools and professors in your post. You don't need to include all of that in this setting.

Your application is good. Don't stress yourself out about not having a first-author paper yet. Study for the GRE. Magoosh is a good value. I would avoid reporting your current scores because of the low Q score.  I would strongly advise you to expand your search beyond those three states. Identify professors you want to work with rather than places you would like to live. If you pursue a career in this field you will need to relocate multiple times (internship, postdoc, job). Also be careful about you discuss your art unofficial recreational therapist experience. A google search tells me this requires a license. Make sure you don't misrepresent your credentials.

[EyelandPychePhD]

22 hours ago, SendMeAnEmailPlz said:

You'll need to calculate your gpa for undergrad and masters. You have to report this even if your schools didn't calculate it. I recommend you remove names of schools and professors in your post. You don't need to include all of that in this setting.

 

I’m not sure if it’s possible for me to calculate GPA for undergrad. For both degrees, Brown actually has a mandatory Pass/Fail grading system, passing is an “S” for “Satisfactory”. You can’t even request letter grades if you wanted to. They do have an S*, where the asterisk means “Satisfactory with distinction”— most of my grades we S*, but that still makes it really hard for me to calculate GPA from my undergrad. For the Masters I should be able to. Does anyone else know if calculating GPA from schools that do not require it is absolutely necessary? 

thanks!

Edited August 21, 2020 by EyelandPychePhD

[EyelandPychePhD]

Thank you all for your replies! I really appreciate it!

Edited August 21, 2020 by EyelandPychePhD

[EyelandPychePhD]

22 hours ago, SendMeAnEmailPlz said:

 I recommend you remove names of schools and professors in your post. You don't need to include all of that in this setting.

I'd like to delete the names of the Professors but for some reason GradCafe won't let me edit my post.... Does the edit feature expire after some timeframe?

 

I think I will keep the names schools though. I definitely don't believe that going to an "Ivy" is deserving of prestige... I fact I despise that premise, as I've been surrounded by people who totally buy into it. In most settings I've purposely not disclosed what schools I went to because I would rather not have the label. But in this case— discussing applications—I feel like it just gives some background.

Edited August 21, 2020 by EyelandPychePhD

[EyelandPychePhD]

22 hours ago, SendMeAnEmailPlz said:

Don't stress yourself out about not having a first-author paper yet.

^Thank you, I needed to hear that.....

 

 I would strongly advise you to expand your search beyond those three states. Identify professors you want to work with rather than places you would like to live. If you pursue a career in this field you will need to relocate multiple times (internship, postdoc, job).

^Those are the three states I am looking to apply to as my first choices, but I will definitely expand my search. I'll basically end up applying to as may schools as I can afford to. I assume transferring as a PhD is most likely frowned upon? Given the PI you'd be working with is likely spending grant money on your stipend, and given that most research takes years to develop, and would require someone dedicated for several years. I would much prefer to go to a program in a state where I would also like to settle down in. (As I'm sure everyone would). 

 A google search tells me this requires a license. Make sure you don't misrepresent your credentials.

^Art and/or recreational therapy does require a license. I would never put this on my resume, as that would definitely be misrepresentation of credentials. I worked under an art/recreational therapist while volunteering, so I just meant that the nature of the volunteer position in the psychiatric ER included activities such as art and recreational therapy. We are trained at the hospital not to give therapeutic advise because none of the volunteers have the credentials to do so. You can make generic compassionate, empathetic statements but must report any patients to the residents if they say something that needs evaluation by a professional. 

 

[EyelandPychePhD]

On 8/20/2020 at 5:19 AM, SoundofSilence said:

Hello there! 

Let's take it one at a time

It's great that you are looking into APA accredited programs only - make sure you check their internship match rates, funding, etc. You've probably looked into that, but it's worth mentioning. 

The MA degree is a big selling point and should compensate for not taking psych undergrad classes. However, make sure you check each program, because some require an undergrad thesis or similar.

Thank you!^

On 8/20/2020 at 5:19 AM, SoundofSilence said:

Caveat here - personal statements for PhD programs are a little different than undergrad ones for admissions; while the path of how you decided between psychiatry and psychology can be a great addition, the backpacking/travelling may not. Reputable PhD programs, even balanced ones, are way more focused on your research experience, your research ideas and what skills you bring to the program.

^I totally agree. I think including the "gap year" of backpacking could, if anything, hurt my application. I may discuss if it is brought up in an interview. I was traveling in South East Asia because I was interested in Buddhism. I also wanted some time off because I graduated high school early and felt like I needed to slow down after taking the fast track to college. 

On 8/20/2020 at 5:19 AM, SoundofSilence said:

 

The letters of recommendation sound great - ensure that they talk about you as a research assistant and what you've learned and how you've grown; just because someone is famous/known expert, it does not translate into a great letter for you. Of course, the equation changes if these famous PIs are known to the programs where you apply or have good connections there.

^^Yes, this is true! In fact, I've even heard that in some cases, "famous" of recommendations can hurt you because if you have no insight into their connections with whom they're writing to on your behalf, you could run into trouble. For example, a friend of mind had someone well-known write a letter of recommendation to a department with whom that person had had a falling out with nearly 20 years prior! It definitely rubbed their POI the wrong way, seeing a letter from an ex-colleague with whom they don't work with anymore due to some work-related conflict. The same thing could happen if you are applying within institutions where the networks are the same handful of big names who have been in the field in the same region for 20+ years. Anyone who has been in the field that long has probably worked at a dozen hospitals, labs, clinics, and had multiple affiliations with different schools. So it's probably best to investigate the relationships beforehand if possible. 

On 8/20/2020 at 5:19 AM, SoundofSilence said:

A paper is great. Do you have posters as well? Or any avenue where you can present some of the work to bolster it further?

I can look into it, but I'm not sure this is possible before December.

On 8/20/2020 at 5:19 AM, SoundofSilence said:

You seem to be interested in spiritual concepts (looking at this + the Spirit Mind Body specialization in the MA). While there is nothing wrong with that, what I'd like to stress is that it's important you go into the application process with clearly defined interests. If you'd like to continue research on schizophrenia, you probably have a good case for that already, if you want to research something else, just make sure your "story" is detailed enough so that POIs aren't confused regarding what you want. 

I am interested in spiritual concepts but I am VERY careful about who I disclose this to. In clinical settings, spirit-mind body medicine sometimes has the reputation for being "pseudo-science". I have changed the title of this book several times, to avoid sounding too "crunchy". I have also inserted tons of scientific Lit Review styled material so that if anything I can include some of the best sections as a writing sample, without disclosing the entire book. I think my background in schizophrenia research would help me match with a POI. I am definitely interested in schizophrenia research. At the same time, I wouldn't mind pursuing other areas. I am going to try to tweak my application for each school in order to best align with each POI from each institution. That's probably one of the hardest parts of the application process. Clearly defining your interests on the one hand gives you stronger compatibility with a POI in that field. On the other hand, it can narrow the scope of your compatibility those from other fields. It's a bit of a double-edged sword in my opinion. 

On 8/20/2020 at 5:19 AM, SoundofSilence said:

The baseline GREs don't look too bad - with some study and your background you will have a great V and AW score and your Q can increase nicely with some practice. So this should be good. Do a lot of practice problems though, besides the original PowerPrep. Those are too easy compared to how the GRE is right now.

I'm hoping to increase my score by 20 points in the next 3 months, with a ton of studying. 

On 8/20/2020 at 5:19 AM, SoundofSilence said:

. 

To ensure best results, I would approach this in two ways - first, ask your supervisors/ letter writers about contacts they may have at different schools or which programs they would recommend that match your interests. Networking is a way that many people use to get noticed in this competitive process.

Great idea. Might be a stretch from NYC to the West, but I will check.

On 8/20/2020 at 5:19 AM, SoundofSilence said:

Second, make sure your application package tells one cohesive story regarding your interests - what you'd like to research during the doctoral program, what you'd like to do in the future with the degree, what is the impact, etc. 

Thank you. I am in the process of making a spreadsheet with all the POI's, schools and school focus, labs, requirements, deadlines, etc. Organized from best fit to most obscure. 

On 8/20/2020 at 5:19 AM, SoundofSilence said:

Third/optional step - you can contact POIs ahead of time and see if you can understand how you'd fit into their lab, what you can bring to the table and how they can help you reach where you want to go.

I should get started on that now I suppose!

On 8/20/2020 at 5:19 AM, SoundofSilence said:

Hope this helps. Best of luck!

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your time and advice! It was so helpful and encouraging! Thank you!