Considering history PhD after finishing undergrad 4 years ago - any input?

[LostAdult]

I graduated cum laude with a BA in history from a state school (that happens to be nationally ranked in the top 30 of all schools, not some podunk school no one has ever heard of) with a 3.59 GPA four years ago this summer. Originally the plan was to get an M Ed in social studies and be a high school teacher so I took the GRE that year (158V, 160Q, 5.5W), and then promptly realized I can't stand high schoolers or the requirements to basically teach to tests that exist in schools these days. After I graduated I instead got a job with the Federal government. It's paid the bills but it's not a career field I want to be in any longer than absolutely necessary. I've gotten married in the time since then and I had plans to go back to school once life settled down a little more firmly for our family (he's in the military and we have at least one more move ahead of us, it should be our last). Originally I thought about going to law school but after some soul-searching I've realized that just isn't for me, so I've settled on pursuing a PhD in history after we move in early 2022, so I'd be starting the degree in fall 2022. Not entirely concrete on what exactly I want to study, but right now I'm interested in something involving the American South, the interesting relationship that is England and the rest of the UK, the relationship between France and the US, things like that. I know that pits me against damn near everyone applying for a PhD in the US these days and long-term that pits me against those same people again when it comes to jobs, but I'm not committed to academia and am absolutely willing to work in other fields. Academia would be cool and all, teaching is something I enjoy, but my heart isn't set on it and I know I can educate people in other, less traditional positions. And worst case I can get back into my current job with little trouble - they are almost constantly hiring for what I do, I just happen to hate it and find no joy whatsoever in my work. All that said, I do have some concerns with the application process.

My concern with applications is twofold - when I took the GRE four years ago, I did reasonably well and with minimal prep, so I'm wondering if I should re-take the GRE before applying this fall? I'm sure if I actually took the time to focus and prep, I'd see improvement on those scores but those are also (from what I can tell) pretty decent scores so would it even be worth doing? I'm gathering that GRE scores are more applicable to stipend values and while I would love to get more money, I'm also not fretting too much about that aspect since my husband will be making enough money to cover us. But I also don't want to end up in the circular file because my scores don't meet some magical threshold. I'm also coming at this from the land of law school admissions where stats are everything so if a magical threshold doesn't exist then great, fantastic, that's a few hundred dollars I can save for a rainy day. My other concern is letters of recommendation. I'm quite confident I can get one really good letter from my professor who taught my senior research seminar course, but because of the time that has passed I'm concerned that other academic letters of recommendation will be less valuable, and professional letters of recommendation will be virtually useless because my current career field doesn't intersect history and historic research at all. Any suggestions? I feel like if I reach out to former professors and they do remember me, that's a great sign because it's been at least 3.5 years since I was in their class, they've had god knows how many students since then, yet I still stand out. But I'm still concerned about the alternative. What do I do if/when they're unwilling or unable to write a letter of recommendation?

Bottom line is I know the job market is grim (to put it kindly...), this is something I'm still willing to pursue despite the challenges I know I'll face, at this point I'm just trying to figure out the most strategic path forward through the application process. Any and all advice on the matter is welcome though.

[TagRendar]

Before you look at taking the GRE again, I'd check and see if the schools that you'd want to be applying to require it at all.  A lot of programs seem to be phasing it out (beyond just waiving it due to the pandemic).

I would also reach out to other professors that would hopefully remember your work--those are the letters of rec you'll want, not something from your work life.  You'd be surprised who remembers you years later.

[LostAdult]

19 minutes ago, TagRendar said:

Before you look at taking the GRE again, I'd check and see if the schools that you'd want to be applying to require it at all.  A lot of programs seem to be phasing it out (beyond just waiving it due to the pandemic).

I would also reach out to other professors that would hopefully remember your work--those are the letters of rec you'll want, not something from your work life.  You'd be surprised who remembers you years later.

Some of the schools on my list are still requiring it even now in spite of the pandemic which is insane to me but what are you going to do?

I have a shortlist of professors who might remember my work, mostly professors from courses which were more research/writing based versus "here is information, here is multiple choice test, regurgitate" style courses. But emphasis is on the "short" part of shortlist. Thanks!!

[OHSP]

On 2/17/2021 at 11:48 AM, LostAdult said:

I graduated cum laude with a BA in history from a state school (that happens to be nationally ranked in the top 30 of all schools, not some podunk school no one has ever heard of) with a 3.59 GPA four years ago this summer. Originally the plan was to get an M Ed in social studies and be a high school teacher so I took the GRE that year (158V, 160Q, 5.5W), and then promptly realized I can't stand high schoolers or the requirements to basically teach to tests that exist in schools these days. After I graduated I instead got a job with the Federal government. It's paid the bills but it's not a career field I want to be in any longer than absolutely necessary. I've gotten married in the time since then and I had plans to go back to school once life settled down a little more firmly for our family (he's in the military and we have at least one more move ahead of us, it should be our last). Originally I thought about going to law school but after some soul-searching I've realized that just isn't for me, so I've settled on pursuing a PhD in history after we move in early 2022, so I'd be starting the degree in fall 2022. Not entirely concrete on what exactly I want to study, but right now I'm interested in something involving the American South, the interesting relationship that is England and the rest of the UK, the relationship between France and the US, things like that. I know that pits me against damn near everyone applying for a PhD in the US these days and long-term that pits me against those same people again when it comes to jobs, but I'm not committed to academia and am absolutely willing to work in other fields. Academia would be cool and all, teaching is something I enjoy, but my heart isn't set on it and I know I can educate people in other, less traditional positions. And worst case I can get back into my current job with little trouble - they are almost constantly hiring for what I do, I just happen to hate it and find no joy whatsoever in my work. All that said, I do have some concerns with the application process.

My concern with applications is twofold - when I took the GRE four years ago, I did reasonably well and with minimal prep, so I'm wondering if I should re-take the GRE before applying this fall? I'm sure if I actually took the time to focus and prep, I'd see improvement on those scores but those are also (from what I can tell) pretty decent scores so would it even be worth doing? I'm gathering that GRE scores are more applicable to stipend values and while I would love to get more money, I'm also not fretting too much about that aspect since my husband will be making enough money to cover us. But I also don't want to end up in the circular file because my scores don't meet some magical threshold. I'm also coming at this from the land of law school admissions where stats are everything so if a magical threshold doesn't exist then great, fantastic, that's a few hundred dollars I can save for a rainy day. My other concern is letters of recommendation. I'm quite confident I can get one really good letter from my professor who taught my senior research seminar course, but because of the time that has passed I'm concerned that other academic letters of recommendation will be less valuable, and professional letters of recommendation will be virtually useless because my current career field doesn't intersect history and historic research at all. Any suggestions? I feel like if I reach out to former professors and they do remember me, that's a great sign because it's been at least 3.5 years since I was in their class, they've had god knows how many students since then, yet I still stand out. But I'm still concerned about the alternative. What do I do if/when they're unwilling or unable to write a letter of recommendation?

Bottom line is I know the job market is grim (to put it kindly...), this is something I'm still willing to pursue despite the challenges I know I'll face, at this point I'm just trying to figure out the most strategic path forward through the application process. Any and all advice on the matter is welcome though.

My advice -- see if you can find a funded MA program that suits your interests. I don't see a clear project here and (speaking as someone in year 5 of the phd, who has had insight into admissions) you'd be much more competitive if you had a recent, non-undergrad piece of research-centered writing + a clear research area. The "top 30 state school" doesn't mean that much, the GRE is not really worth worrying about either. Admissions are about the quality of your research questions and evidence that you have a bit of a stake in the research you want to do (not talking about an identity-centered stake, just a desire to intervene in or contribute to some trend that's happening in your field atm). Can you give us a clearer sense of what you want to work on/what you'd be proposing to work on in the SoP?

[TMP]

I second @OHSP's advice to do a funded MA in history. The PhD is very intellectually demanding and does require some moving around (you do need to attend the institution for residency purposes; coursework; and teaching assignment and travel to archives/libraries).  The funded MA will allow more freedom to choose your courses and figure out your interests.  The PhD basically demands that -- by around 3rd year -- you have a dissertation project that won't change significantly and has a clear plan for completion within 3-5 years. 

Another difference between the two programs, the PhD programs (unfortunately) largely focuses on training students to become academics whereas MA programs may offer flexibility and opportunities to explore different careers relating to history including internships. It's one thing you'll want to look for in a MA program.

MA programs usually require exams OR a thesis to complete the degree. So if you find yourself realizing that research isn't your thing, you can just take the exams and leave.  Another thing to look for.

Finally, you mention that you aren't high on teaching. I am sorry to say this but undergraduate students really care about their TAs' performance, especially at big universities. They can immediately tell if the TA/professor is neutral about teaching and they will respond exactly just that, not give a care about the class or switch to another class (that can still fit their schedule).  It's not a good look for the department when its trying to raise enrollment and the number of majors/minors. So if you do find yourself as a TA, be open to all the possibilities and challenges.