Grades Grades Grades!

[Grad2011]

It seems like all the graduate schools want applicants with 3.0 or higher GPA.

Although I have above 3.0 for my last two years, I ended up switching my track from med school to BA in communications.

at the end of my sophomore year in college.

the science grades are weighing down my overall GPA : (

I would like to aim for UMD, but do anyone of you out there know someone who got in with a 2.9 GPA?

Should I mention that I switched my major in my application?

Thank you so much for responding!

Edited June 4, 2010 by Grad2011

[coaks]

It seems like all the graduate schools want applicants with 3.0 or higher GPA.

Although I have above 3.0 for my last two years, I ended up switching my track from med school to BA in communications.

at the end of my sophomore year in college.

the science grades are weighing down my overall GPA : (

I would like to aim for UMD, but do anyone of you out there know someone who got in with a 2.9 GPA?

Should I mention that I switched my major in my application?

Thank you so much for responding!

I actually think this isn't true for the majority of programs although I do recall UMD specifically being an exception. Both myself and fadeindreams got into multiple top programs with a sub 3.0 GPA and there have been plenty of other posters that did the same. I'm not sure how UMD treats applications that ignore their arbitrary (and absurd) 3.0 cutoff. (I recall the business school had a mandatory 3.0 for applications but perhaps the governmental affairs program is different?)

If it's one of your dream programs, I'd say call the adcom's office and ask to speak to someone about it. Make your arguments, mention how the vast majority of other top programs have no obligatory GPA requirement (only suggested stats) and how you think you're a good candidate for UMD's program despite your difficulties during your first couple of years of undergrad. Ask them specifically if they've admitted anyone with less than a 3.0 GPA over the previous few years. They might be able to give you some good information about what they're looking for.

I'm sure you can get into a great program with your undergraduate stats. It's just an issue of applying to a wide enough range of schools, finding a good fit and, perhaps, getting a little lucky along the way.

Edited June 4, 2010 by coakleym

[Grad2011]

I actually think this isn't true for the majority of programs although I do recall UMD specifically being an exception. Both myself and fadeindreams got into multiple top programs with a sub 3.0 GPA and there have been plenty of other posters that did the same. I'm not sure how UMD treats applications that ignore their arbitrary (and absurd) 3.0 cutoff. (I recall the business school had a mandatory 3.0 for applications but perhaps the governmental affairs program is different?)

If it's one of your dream programs, I'd say call the adcom's office and ask to speak to someone about it. Make your arguments, mention how the vast majority of other top programs have no obligatory GPA requirement (only suggested stats) and how you think you're a good candidate for UMD's program despite your difficulties during your first couple of years of undergrad. Ask them specifically if they've admitted anyone with less than a 3.0 GPA over the previous few years. They might be able to give you some good information about what they're looking for.

I'm sure you can get into a great program with your undergraduate stats. It's just an issue of applying to a wide enough range of schools, finding a good fit and, perhaps, getting a little lucky along the way.

Thanks!

I have sent them a e-mail and waiting for their response.

[carpecc]

Yea, I got into Columbia, Denver and waitlisted at SAIS with only a 2.9 gpa. You can overcome grade deficiencies with work experience or GRE scores. Just make sure the other aspects of your app are strong. You can also swing some part time econ classes and do real well, just to prove that you can handle the graduate curriculum.

I'd follow the advice on this forum and call/visit the admissions. Tell them who you are, your experience, email them your CV before the call if you can. Ask them what it would take to get into their program. That's what I did and I was encouraged with the results.

[sackerma26]

It seems like all the graduate schools want applicants with 3.0 or higher GPA.

Although I have above 3.0 for my last two years, I ended up switching my track from med school to BA in communications.

at the end of my sophomore year in college.

the science grades are weighing down my overall GPA : (

I would like to aim for UMD, but do anyone of you out there know someone who got in with a 2.9 GPA?

Should I mention that I switched my major in my application?

Thank you so much for responding!

I know someone who got in with below that even. He was a former alum and UMD seems to be a school that is kind to former students. Apply!

[HOUBMA]

Yeah, no one cares about the GPA as long as you have good GRE scores. I mean, you could technically blow off all four years off undergrad and still get into Columbia, Yale, Princeton, etc. I don't know why I was so worried about grades in undergrad when I could've simply gotten "real world" experience for a year or so and sported my 2.5 GPA all the way to my Ivy League school. That would have been a lot easier than studying my butt off 24/7... The moral of the story is schools care about one day, the day you take your GRE... They could really care less about the past 4 years... lol

[globalsun]

Honestly HOUBMA, the advice you give out is false. Your odds of acceptance decrease dramatically with 2.5 GPA even with a decent GRE score, unless of course you have been out of the academia for 10 years and served in the military. Even then, one is playing against the odds.

Yeah, no one cares about the GPA as long as you have good GRE scores. I mean, you could technically blow off all four years off undergrad and still get into Columbia, Yale, Princeton, etc. I don't know why I was so worried about grades in undergrad when I could've simply gotten "real world" experience for a year or so and sported my 2.5 GPA all the way to my Ivy League school. That would have been a lot easier than studying my butt off 24/7... The moral of the story is schools care about one day, the day you take your GRE... They could really care less about the past 4 years... lol

[mssyAK]

OP, have you already taken the quantitative class suggestions for an MPP (stats, micro, macro, calc)?

I'm also looking at Maryland; from this page on their website, they say applicants must show "through either their quantitative GRE score or their performance in previous coursework that they possess the ability to handle the quantitative elements of the curriculum", but also that a free "Math Refresher" course is available for students who are rusty. If you were willing to take a class on the side of what you're doing, it could help out your GPA while showing the adcom you're willing to work.

Just a thought, hope it works out either way

[fadeindreams]

OP, have you already taken the quantitative class suggestions for an MPP (stats, micro, macro, calc)?

I'm also looking at Maryland; from this page on their website, they say applicants must show "through either their quantitative GRE score or their performance in previous coursework that they possess the ability to handle the quantitative elements of the curriculum", but also that a free "Math Refresher" course is available for students who are rusty. If you were willing to take a class on the side of what you're doing, it could help out your GPA while showing the adcom you're willing to work.

Just a thought, hope it works out either way

I agree with this 100%. You need to focus on what you can still control. Your cumulative GPA is tabulated using only the credit hours you completed PRIOR to your degree being conferred, so new classes don't affect it and it is set. Knock out your GRE with at least a >75th percentile score in each section. Take courses at your local university or through correspondence that are relevant to a MPP - Micro, Macro, Stat and advanced math are great options. Write a stellar SOP and get immaculate references. Take control of every facet of your application that you can still control.

[HOUBMA]

Honestly HOUBMA, the advice you give out is false. Your odds of acceptance decrease dramatically with 2.5 GPA even with a decent GRE score, unless of course you have been out of the academia for 10 years and served in the military. Even then, one is playing against the odds.

I would have to respectfully disagree... Personal experiences don't lie... Had a 3.79/1390 and failed to get in the four schools listed below (NYU, CMU, ONU, DePaul). My references and personal statement were reviewed by highly regarded historians and capable writers. In all, my credentials spoke for themselves. I noticed others that gained admittance to the same schools I was rejected from that sported a 2.5/1200-1400GRE portfolio. I do not know their (or the adcomms) story, but feel outraged at this. I believe that adcomms will take real world experience over a decent GPA any day (ie: 4.0/0 yrs experience will get rejected in favor of 2.7/5 years work experience).This is a trend that I have noticed in the MPP/MPA field. I hear it go one a lot more in the ivy league setting than in the state school setting. That is why ivy league schools always say "we do not have a minimum GPA requirement but expect a 3.0" That opens the door for 45 year old people that bombed college and have been in the workforce for 10+ years to have a chance to get into an ivy league school ( or any school for that matter).

This is no joke. I have seen a 4.0/1370 student (friend of mine) with stellar supporting documents get a rejection to Penn, while another gentleman gained acceptance with a 2.8/1210 and 8 years of work experience. So, please, do not say that my statements are false!

Edited July 19, 2010 by HOUBMA

[fadeindreams]

I would have to respectfully disagree... Personal experiences don't lie... Had a 3.79/1390 and failed to get in the four schools listed below (NYU, CMU, ONU, DePaul). My references and personal statement were reviewed by highly regarded historians and capable writers. In all, my credentials spoke for themselves. I noticed others that gained admittance to the same schools I was rejected from that sported a 2.5/1200-1400GRE portfolio. I do not know their (or the adcomms) story, but feel outraged at this. I believe that adcomms will take real world experience over a decent GPA any day (ie: 4.0/0 yrs experience will get rejected in favor of 2.7/5 years work experience).This is a trend that I have noticed in the MPP/MPA field. I hear it go one a lot more in the ivy league setting than in the state school setting. That is why ivy league schools always say "we do not have a minimum GPA requirement but expect a 3.0" That opens the door for 45 year old people that bombed college and have been in the workforce for 10+ years to have a chance to get into an ivy league school ( or any school for that matter).

This is no joke. I have seen a 4.0/1370 student (friend of mine) with stellar supporting documents get a rejection to Penn, while another gentleman gained acceptance with a 2.8/1210 and 8 years of work experience. So, please, do not say that my statements are false!

It's not so black and white, in either direction. Schools are looking for balanced candidates. These are PROFESSIONAL programs after all and of course they are going to prefer incoming students that aren't coming straight out of undergrad. I wouldn't have been able to offer anything out of undergrad except an unearned cockiness and a lot of subjective views on things I knew nothing about. Now, while true I've only been out of school for 5 years, I feel that I have a much more reserved opinion on the way that organizations work and how to be a good worker within the public sphere.

Of course I'm one of those who got accepted into a top tier program with a sub-3.0 GPA so I'm inclined to defend their admissions standards.

[HOUBMA]

It's not so black and white, in either direction. Schools are looking for balanced candidates. These are PROFESSIONAL programs after all and of course they are going to prefer incoming students that aren't coming straight out of undergrad. I wouldn't have been able to offer anything out of undergrad except an unearned cockiness and a lot of subjective views on things I knew nothing about. Now, while true I've only been out of school for 5 years, I feel that I have a much more reserved opinion on the way that organizations work and how to be a good worker within the public sphere.

Of course I'm one of those who got accepted into a top tier program with a sub-3.0 GPA so I'm inclined to defend their admissions standards.

I am not saying that experience does not have its own fulfilling state, I am saying to judge based on that is somewhat stereotypical. I know 22/23 year olds straight from college that have a better sense of knowledge about how government organizations run, the logistics involved, and have a higher degree of professionalism than some people with 5+ years of work experience. This is not always the case, but to simply assume someone holding a public job, any job, is more inclined to learn and succeed than someone that is self-motivated through grades and continued high academic achievement is a bit of a stretch. I can see where the experience comes in, but I would be assume that schools would be leery of these types. Since this degree is earned through mostly classes (not working a job) I would assume they would look at people who have better grades ( indicating better study patterns, or capabilities to succeed in a classroom setting), rather than those who did mediocre to poor in a classroom setting before (which MAY indicate bad study habits, or capabilities not to succeed in the classroom setting). I know everyone has a story (ie: student x has a 2.3 because she was dealing with issues her first 4 semesters) but isnt that factored into good time management? I had issues my second year of college, but still maintained a respectable GPA in all my classes. I agree with you that it is not black and white, and that it is a professional program, however it also is in a classroom for the most part. If one did poorly in a classroom setting before, why would something like work experience make adcomms thinks that a change could be made in that field? I know they do have some similarities, but lets be honest, the classroom setting and the workplace are two totally different things.

[fadeindreams]

Work experience, especially "quality" (subjective, I know) work experience can let those evaluating applications determine:

• Perception of peers in the field - simply making it through a competitive hiring process to land an impressive job can be indicative of a positive perception of those actually working in the field. Not a catch all but certainly better than those who are in their last semester of an undergraduate program. Remember trhat for professional programs "placement rate" is critically important.
• Focus - If the applicant has a clear career focus demonstrated by their resume, ideally with jobs that are progressively more challenging.
• Ability - If you can demonstrate on your resume that you were able to complete a relevant project while IN the field you name dropped in your SOP, then good for you. You've earned a couple of points. For example, I think it probably helped me when applying to internationally focused policy programs that I worked in Japan for two years and have since traveled to multiple countries for work purposes.

Anyway, these are not academic programs, in the traditional sense, they are professional programs and they require a certain amount of professional exposure from successful applicants. If you want to get a similar degree right out of undergrad, may I suggest Political Science, Economics or International Relations?

[abraxas]

You need to focus on what you can still control. Your cumulative GPA is tabulated using only the credit hours you completed PRIOR to your degree being conferred

Is this true? I graduated with a 3.96 GPA in History with minors in Pub Affairs and Poli Sci , took a continuing education course in macroecon and did poorer than I had anticipated (I got a B grade) will that pull down my GPA at all? Or will that solitary course be considered separately from my regular GPA?

[UnlikelyGrad]

Is this true? I graduated with a 3.96 GPA in History with minors in Pub Affairs and Poli Sci , took a continuing education course in macroecon and did poorer than I had anticipated (I got a B grade) will that pull down my GPA at all? Or will that solitary course be considered separately from my regular GPA?

Yup. Everywhere I applied they wanted undergrad cumulative GPA only. Which sucked for me, because I had a sucky undergrad GPA but a 4.0 GPA for postbac work.

[fadeindreams]

Is this true? I graduated with a 3.96 GPA in History with minors in Pub Affairs and Poli Sci , took a continuing education course in macroecon and did poorer than I had anticipated (I got a B grade) will that pull down my GPA at all? Or will that solitary course be considered separately from my regular GPA?

It shouldn't pull down your GPA, though it may very well affect the ad-com's perception of your application. As far as the way the GPA is tabulated, I'm fairly certain that all schools tabulate GPA based only on classes completed prior to first degree conferral.

[abraxas]

It shouldn't pull down your GPA, though it may very well affect the ad-com's perception of your application. As far as the way the GPA is tabulated, I'm fairly certain that all schools tabulate GPA based only on classes completed prior to first degree conferral.

I'm still kind of in shock that it happened. I'm almost considering not sending that transcript along. I know you're not supposed to , but there's no way for anyone to know that I took that course if I don't mention it. I might take it over again, do better, and send in that grade.

[pwnt]

I agree with this 100%. You need to focus on what you can still control. Your cumulative GPA is tabulated using only the credit hours you completed PRIOR to your degree being conferred, so new classes don't affect it and it is set. Knock out your GRE with at least a >75th percentile score in each section. Take courses at your local university or through correspondence that are relevant to a MPP - Micro, Macro, Stat and advanced math are great options. Write a stellar SOP and get immaculate references. Take control of every facet of your application that you can still control.

this is what im in the process of doing!