International and Security Graduate Programs

[PolicyGradInterests]

Hi everyone!

I'm looking at international security/foreign policy graduate programs and would love to hear some people's thoughts on the following programs: Columbia SIPA MIA, Georgetown MSFS, GWU Elliott MAIA, Hopkins SAIS MAIR, HKS MPP, Tufts Fletcher (still waiting to hear from Georgetown and HKS). Funding is roughly the same at each of these schools.

My goals are to work in the federal government in this area. Thanks!

[GradSchoolGrad]

1 hour ago, PolicyGradInterests said:

Hi everyone!

I'm looking at international security/foreign policy graduate programs and would love to hear some people's thoughts on the following programs: Columbia SIPA MIA, Georgetown MSFS, GWU Elliott MAIA, Hopkins SAIS MAIR, HKS MPP, Tufts Fletcher (still waiting to hear from Georgetown and HKS). Funding is roughly the same at each of these schools.

My goals are to work in the federal government in this area. Thanks!

So if you want to work for Federal Government security wise (broadly speaking), I would argue the more direct/robust pathways are Georgetown MSFS and GW Elliot MAIA. You will find strong cohorts of Georgetown/GW mafia there.

If you want to do things that are quant focused - SAIS MAIR and HKS MPP may be better option (granted a lot of people do non-quant things coming from both of those schools).

HKS MPP is an interesting school because it both huge in terms of size but also super spread out in terms of career outcomes. Sure you might come out of it with the brand and everything, but you'll find that the security interested IR folks a small (yet mighty) posse. I am not counting those interested in defense logistics/org management and design. 

SIPA MIA - yes you can wiggle your way into security issues and broadly anything in international relations. However, it really caters itself best to the non-profit/IGO/NGO scene

Tufts Fletcher is an interesting one. Arguably, it probably has the best student experience (like a liberal artsy small community feel of an IR grad program). Historically, people go there to do non-profit/IGO/NGO work with a consistent cohort that goes to the foreign service. Lately, they have been trying to innovate into the private sector a bit with the "career tours". However, I have never seen Tufts Fletcher as a target school an any core recruiting roster I have ever seen and a lot of it has to do with how outside of foreign service, their graduates spread out. That being said, individual Tufts alums tend to be pretty sharp... 

If you are interested in IR/international security - you should shoot for the McCain Fellowship. Checking out their careers will give you an idea what it  takes to succeed.

https://www.whs.mil/McCain-Cohort2-Finalists/

[PolicyGradInterests]

1 hour ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

So if you want to work for Federal Government security wise (broadly speaking), I would argue the more direct/robust pathways are Georgetown MSFS and GW Elliot MAIA. You will find strong cohorts of Georgetown/GW mafia there.

If you want to do things that are quant focused - SAIS MAIR and HKS MPP may be better option (granted a lot of people do non-quant things coming from both of those schools).

HKS MPP is an interesting school because it both huge in terms of size but also super spread out in terms of career outcomes. Sure you might come out of it with the brand and everything, but you'll find that the security interested IR folks a small (yet mighty) posse. I am not counting those interested in defense logistics/org management and design. 

SIPA MIA - yes you can wiggle your way into security issues and broadly anything in international relations. However, it really caters itself best to the non-profit/IGO/NGO scene

Tufts Fletcher is an interesting one. Arguably, it probably has the best student experience (like a liberal artsy small community feel of an IR grad program). Historically, people go there to do non-profit/IGO/NGO work with a consistent cohort that goes to the foreign service. Lately, they have been trying to innovate into the private sector a bit with the "career tours". However, I have never seen Tufts Fletcher as a target school an any core recruiting roster I have ever seen and a lot of it has to do with how outside of foreign service, their graduates spread out. That being said, individual Tufts alums tend to be pretty sharp... 

If you are interested in IR/international security - you should shoot for the McCain Fellowship. Checking out their careers will give you an idea what it  takes to succeed.

https://www.whs.mil/McCain-Cohort2-Finalists/

Thank you so so much for all these insights and for linking the McCain Fellowship! This is all super helpful.

I am potentially interested in State (civil service) or Capitol Hill working on a professional staff foreign policy team. Based on your experience, is this best suited for the DC schools? Also, if I don't get into MSFS (still waiting to hear... ugh), where would you think is a good bet barring GW?

[GradSchoolGrad]

8 minutes ago, PolicyGradInterests said:

Thank you so so much for all these insights and for linking the McCain Fellowship! This is all super helpful.

I am potentially interested in State (civil service) or Capitol Hill working on a professional staff foreign policy team. Based on your experience, is this best suited for the DC schools? Also, if I don't get into MSFS (still waiting to hear... ugh), where would you think is a good bet barring GW?

Okay, those are two very different beasts.

I would argue that going into the State Department (I'm assuming you mean FSO) is actually less competitive than being Professional Hill Staffer (I'm assuming you are speaking to the actual Professional Hill Staffer career track - e.g.,. Ways and Mean's Committee Professional Staff). This simply because of numbers.

So lets break this down in terms of getting in and then school network support.

State Dept FSO: 

In terms of State Dept - FSO, your school doesn't necessarily matter that much for getting in. Its about having the background (this includes diversity and language and etc.) that they are looking. If you are going to a top school, you will check the box. Actually, they are trying to diversify beyond IR folks, so MBA and science grad degrees, although rarer, are being looked very highly upon. That being said, where you go to school can influence what you get involved in which in turn influences your pitch to why you want to be in the FSO. For example, GW Elliot is an amazing place of China and Technology studies. Georgetown MSFS arguably has a leg up on International Business, Trade, and Security. So the easy answer is to go for the niche that you really care about. Just kaeep in mind, you'll be more in demand if you have a functional area that there is a shortage for (granted to a certain extent FSO are more generalists).

As for school network support, Georgetown MSFS is basically the biggest mafia in FSO - bar none. There also other big, but maybe not as big Mafias - Elliot being one them.

Professional Capital Hill Staffer

Every professional capital hill staffer that I have ever met has really deep levels of experience. This isn't something you can just jump onto. Sometimes you hear about people doing this after grad school, but that is few and far between. Just to give you an example. When one of my friends was a newly minted hill staffer, he also had a 2 graduate degrees and 8 years professional experience. Another one I knew had 1 graduate degree and 5 years working in Federal Government, 3 Years working for a Senator on her staff.

I know a person en route to compete to be a Professional Hill Staffer from MSFS, but she really wheeled and dealed her way in plus had a good 6 years of professional experience. That being said, if you want to work in Capital Hill as a Senate/Congressional staffer or any sort - it really helps to go to Georgetown or Elliot or SAIS (although there are ways around it).

Georgetown MSFS vs. GW Elliot

I would say the big difference (academically) between the two schools is that Elliot is a really good place to go if you got a niche whereby there is an Elliot professor who will really support you. Elliot is overall pretty good, but they are bar none some of the best for certain specialities. I always meet people doing China, Space, and Global health from Elliot that are highly regarded. I'm sure there are other niches I am just less familiar with. I will also say that Georgetown is a better school if you are looking for something more interdisciplinary (e.g. combining with Law/Business) with the notable exception of public health. 

 

[PolicyGradInterests]

52 minutes ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

Okay, those are two very different beasts.

I would argue that going into the State Department (I'm assuming you mean FSO) is actually less competitive than being Professional Hill Staffer (I'm assuming you are speaking to the actual Professional Hill Staffer career track - e.g.,. Ways and Mean's Committee Professional Staff). This simply because of numbers.

So lets break this down in terms of getting in and then school network support.

State Dept FSO: 

In terms of State Dept - FSO, your school doesn't necessarily matter that much for getting in. Its about having the background (this includes diversity and language and etc.) that they are looking. If you are going to a top school, you will check the box. Actually, they are trying to diversify beyond IR folks, so MBA and science grad degrees, although rarer, are being looked very highly upon. That being said, where you go to school can influence what you get involved in which in turn influences your pitch to why you want to be in the FSO. For example, GW Elliot is an amazing place of China and Technology studies. Georgetown MSFS arguably has a leg up on International Business, Trade, and Security. So the easy answer is to go for the niche that you really care about. Just kaeep in mind, you'll be more in demand if you have a functional area that there is a shortage for (granted to a certain extent FSO are more generalists).

As for school network support, Georgetown MSFS is basically the biggest mafia in FSO - bar none. There also other big, but maybe not as big Mafias - Elliot being one them.

Professional Capital Hill Staffer

Every professional capital hill staffer that I have ever met has really deep levels of experience. This isn't something you can just jump onto. Sometimes you hear about people doing this after grad school, but that is few and far between. Just to give you an example. When one of my friends was a newly minted hill staffer, he also had a 2 graduate degrees and 8 years professional experience. Another one I knew had 1 graduate degree and 5 years working in Federal Government, 3 Years working for a Senator on her staff.

I know a person en route to compete to be a Professional Hill Staffer from MSFS, but she really wheeled and dealed her way in plus had a good 6 years of professional experience. That being said, if you want to work in Capital Hill as a Senate/Congressional staffer or any sort - it really helps to go to Georgetown or Elliot or SAIS (although there are ways around it).

Georgetown MSFS vs. GW Elliot

I would say the big difference (academically) between the two schools is that Elliot is a really good place to go if you got a niche whereby there is an Elliot professor who will really support you. Elliot is overall pretty good, but they are bar none some of the best for certain specialities. I always meet people doing China, Space, and Global health from Elliot that are highly regarded. I'm sure there are other niches I am just less familiar with. I will also say that Georgetown is a better school if you are looking for something more interdisciplinary (e.g. combining with Law/Business) with the notable exception of public health. 

 

Ah got it! And I meant civil service instead of FSO haha. To be honest, I'd rather be based in DC or NY at USUN (if its even possible to get there without FSO), than being abroad. I'm aiming for PMF, but I know even if you are a finalist you may not match with an office.

I knew one person who went to the Hill as a Professional Staffer straight after MSFS with only a couple of years prior experience (first person I met from MSFS), so I thought it wasn't too too bad, but this makes a ton of sense about getting on.

Also, excluding Elliott or MSFS where would you say for these gigs?

Sorry for a ton of questions, but you're SUPER helpful (you should make a blog or a podcast haha).

[Boolakanaka]

4 hours ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

Okay, those are two very different beasts.

I would argue that going into the State Department (I'm assuming you mean FSO) is actually less competitive than being Professional Hill Staffer (I'm assuming you are speaking to the actual Professional Hill Staffer career track - e.g.,. Ways and Mean's Committee Professional Staff). This simply because of numbers.

So lets break this down in terms of getting in and then school network support.

State Dept FSO: 

In terms of State Dept - FSO, your school doesn't necessarily matter that much for getting in. Its about having the background (this includes diversity and language and etc.) that they are looking. If you are going to a top school, you will check the box. Actually, they are trying to diversify beyond IR folks, so MBA and science grad degrees, although rarer, are being looked very highly upon. That being said, where you go to school can influence what you get involved in which in turn influences your pitch to why you want to be in the FSO. For example, GW Elliot is an amazing place of China and Technology studies. Georgetown MSFS arguably has a leg up on International Business, Trade, and Security. So the easy answer is to go for the niche that you really care about. Just kaeep in mind, you'll be more in demand if you have a functional area that there is a shortage for (granted to a certain extent FSO are more generalists).

As for school network support, Georgetown MSFS is basically the biggest mafia in FSO - bar none. There also other big, but maybe not as big Mafias - Elliot being one them.

Professional Capital Hill Staffer

Every professional capital hill staffer that I have ever met has really deep levels of experience. This isn't something you can just jump onto. Sometimes you hear about people doing this after grad school, but that is few and far between. Just to give you an example. When one of my friends was a newly minted hill staffer, he also had a 2 graduate degrees and 8 years professional experience. Another one I knew had 1 graduate degree and 5 years working in Federal Government, 3 Years working for a Senator on her staff.

I know a person en route to compete to be a Professional Hill Staffer from MSFS, but she really wheeled and dealed her way in plus had a good 6 years of professional experience. That being said, if you want to work in Capital Hill as a Senate/Congressional staffer or any sort - it really helps to go to Georgetown or Elliot or SAIS (although there are ways around it).

Georgetown MSFS vs. GW Elliot

I would say the big difference (academically) between the two schools is that Elliot is a really good place to go if you got a niche whereby there is an Elliot professor who will really support you. Elliot is overall pretty good, but they are bar none some of the best for certain specialities. I always meet people doing China, Space, and Global health from Elliot that are highly regarded. I'm sure there are other niches I am just less familiar with. I will also say that Georgetown is a better school if you are looking for something more interdisciplinary (e.g. combining with Law/Business) with the notable exception of public health. 

 

I have twice worked on the hill (Senate side) and would say, another thing to consider, unless you have very specific experience that is in demand, they will low-ball you in compensation. There are no GS levels or the sort--rather, each committee office is given a flat number, and from there, they divvy up according to those most senior to the respective committee. Typically, if you are the staff director or the general counsel to a committee you will get the lions share (think 150-170k plus), lower lever professional staffers even with graduate degrees, will make less than 100K.

[PolicyGradInterests]

32 minutes ago, Boolakanaka said:

I have twice worked on the hill (Senate side) and would say, another thing to consider, unless you have very specific experience that is in demand, they will low-ball you in compensation. There are no GS levels or the sort--rather, each committee office is given a flat number, and from there, they divvy up according to those most senior to the respective committee. Typically, if you are the staff director or the general counsel to a committee you will get the lions share (think 150-170k plus), lower lever professional staffers even with graduate degrees, will make less than 100K.

Good to know!

Do you have any recommendations on school choices based on my interests?

[Boolakanaka]

10 minutes ago, PolicyGradInterests said:

Good to know!

Do you have any recommendations on school choices based on my interests?

Frankly, because many Senators like to hire from their own state, schools within that state can be a feature that gets you in the door.  The first time I was hired it was because the Senator was looking specifically to hire a person from his state--the second time, I was brought on a the chief counsel to the committee.