GRE scores for geology grad programs

[Kitkat]

So I did very well for the verbal section (640, in the 90+%) and got a 4.5 for the AW. I am not too worried about that since it is a science program (specifically I know it tend to fall under physical sciences). But what I am wondering about is my Q score. I only got a 670 (60+%) and am wondering if anyone knows if that will seriously impact me into getting into a good geology program. I am more interested in the historical/ not math based/ bio oriented aspects of the Geology Ph.D. programs, and do not know how important this is for that. I am doing research near to what I want to research, so far have two very good references that I can get, and hope to get at least one more before I start applying next year. I also currently have a 3.5 GPA, very similar GPA for the major, and a possibility of getting published in a major journal. With all of this, would that one part of my GRE really matter? Should I retake it again (some people said I should if I am looking at more top tier programs) or hope that other aspects make up for it? Let me know if you need more information about this ...

[DrFaustus666]

So I did very well for the verbal section (640, in the 90+%) and got a 4.5 for the AW. I am not too worried about that since it is a science program (specifically I know it tend to fall under physical sciences). But what I am wondering about is my Q score. I only got a 670 (60+%) and am wondering if anyone knows if that will seriously impact me into getting into a good geology program. I am more interested in the historical/ not math based/ bio oriented aspects of the Geology Ph.D. programs, and do not know how important this is for that. I am doing research near to what I want to research, so far have two very good references that I can get, and hope to get at least one more before I start applying next year. I also currently have a 3.5 GPA, very similar GPA for the major, and a possibility of getting published in a major journal. With all of this, would that one part of my GRE really matter? Should I retake it again (some people said I should if I am looking at more top tier programs) or hope that other aspects make up for it? Let me know if you need more information about this ...

[DrFaustus666]

Hi!

I just checked ETS's statistics (year 2003). In that year, "Earth and Marine Science" majors scored a median of 610, and the 75th percentile was 700.

Going on that, I'd guess that you probably ought to push your quant score just a bit, if you're shooting for top 10 programs. If you're looking at top 30 programs, again, just my guess, you probably do not need to improve your GRE Q.

John

[Kitkat]

On 9/16/2010 at 8:20 PM, DrFaustus666 said:

Hi!

 

I just checked ETS's statistics (year 2003). In that year, "Earth and Marine Science" majors scored a median of 610, and the 75th percentile was 700.

 

Going on that, I'd guess that you probably ought to push your quant score just a bit, if you're shooting for top 10 programs. If you're looking at top 30 programs, again, just my guess, you probably do not need to improve your GRE Q.

 

John

 

I am also looking at programs where I would be taking biology classes as well as geology classes, and that getting into the specific programs that I am looking at, they are looking at the best students for them out of the biology and geology students that will be applying. I was looking at average bio students taking the GRE in general, and they seem to score a decent amount lower then physical science student (geology students included, although we seem to be some of the lowest scoring groups out of the physical sciences group).

Do you think that with top 10 schools, its generally better to have a higher Q score in general, just because they will be getting people with on average the highest scores anyway?

[DrFaustus666]

I am also looking at programs where I would be taking biology classes as well as geology classes, and that getting into the specific programs that I am looking at, they are looking at the best students for them out of the biology and geology students that will be applying. I was looking at average bio students taking the GRE in general, and they seem to score a decent amount lower then physical science student (geology students included, although we seem to be some of the lowest scoring groups out of the physical sciences group).

Do you think that with top 10 schools, its generally better to have a higher Q score in general, just because they will be getting people with on average the highest scores anyway?

Yes, unquestionably. Remember (or here's some info if you didn't know it already), the top 6% of all GRE test takers earn an 800 in Quantitative. Many applicants at the top programs in sciences, my guess is, up to HALF or more, will have Q scores of 800.

Edited September 18, 2010 by DrFaustus666

[newms]

Yes, unquestionably. Remember (or here's some info if you didn't know it already), the top 6% of all GRE test takers earn an 800 in Quantitative. Many applicants at the top programs in sciences, my guess is, up to HALF or more, will have Q scores of 800.

I believe the percentage for Computer Science applicants that get an 800 in the quant is around 25%, so I'm guessing that around that much applicants get an 800 quant among the sciences, so it is very likely that for the very top schools the percent of applicants that get an 800 quant is around 50% as DrFaustus666 said. Also bear in mind that the very top schools tend to place much more emphasis on research experience and potential, than on standardized tests.

Edited September 18, 2010 by newms

[DrFaustus666]

Right you are newms !

I should have mentioned that.

For example, my nephew, a recent Chem Ph.D graduate from a top-20 school, who immediately upon graduation took an Asst Prof position at a top-50 school---told me his GRE Q-score was in the upper 700s.

But he had been listed as co-author of a couple of papers as an undergrad, and he was sure that's what got him in to the doctoral program, with full funding.

[Kitkat]

My thing is this, is there a good way to emphasize the research that I am doing, and stress less my quant scores. I mean, I did do well on the verbal. And on the AW, I did on par or better then the averages for a lot of the programs that I am applying to. They do seem to emphasize that research and how you fit into the department, and what research you would like to do is very important. Or would it be best to just try to increase my quant score, and retake the test agian?

I am also wondering, some of the programs that I am looking at require also taking a GRE subject test. I took the Bio subject test, and got a 680. Now, since I am going for a geobiology concentration, I was wondering if anyone knows if this is good or bad, if I should also retake that exam as well, or if that would be a good thing if I also retake the general GRE if I decide to in order to give myself a better chance to get into top 10.

Edit: Just read the last post, I will most likely be co-author on some papers before I apply. Would this be something worth mentioning or considering for retaking the GRE?

Edited September 18, 2010 by Kitkat

[DrFaustus666]

I'd say your research experience should be front and center on your Statement of Purpose -- even if the kind of research you're doing now is not EXACTLY what you'd like to do --- the point is that you are an experienced researcher.

Also, remember, I'm not in the sciences, and so am not absolutely the best person to comment on such things.

My only real point with Quant scores is: At the top universities the competition is not stiff, it's ferocious. In my own area for example, I read on NYU's website (probably a top 20 or top 30 school in my hoped-for area, musicology), that they typically receive about 50 (doctoral) applications and accept 3 to 5 of those. So on pure statistics, one would have to apply to 10 or 20 or more such schools to be accepted at one of them.

I have no idea what emphasis various programs may place on Subject scores. Except: I did read on this site, sometime ago, one professor is said to have said, "We only look at subject scores when we've never heard of the university that the applicant attended" ... the point is that not all 4.0 GPAs are created equal, and this prof used Subject test scores as a way of calibrating GPA.

Does that help?

John

[Kitkat]

Very helpful, thank you. I am just wondering now, how important the subject test is in their consideration if they specifically for one. Considering if they are one of the competetive one, do you think that it would be something that they would use to help them weed through all of the different people applying like they do with the general tests?

[UnlikelyGrad]

My only real point with Quant scores is: At the top universities the competition is not stiff, it's ferocious. In my own area for example, I read on NYU's website (probably a top 20 or top 30 school in my hoped-for area, musicology), that they typically receive about 50 (doctoral) applications and accept 3 to 5 of those. So on pure statistics, one would have to apply to 10 or 20 or more such schools to be accepted at one of them.

And this isn't about geosciences, but I have to say that in engineering it's definitely ferocious. My sis is an eng. prof at a top-10 university, and she says almost all of their admits have 800Q...

I am in geosciences, sort of, but it's an interdisciplinary program where each of the associated departments has different entry requirements (!) so I'm not much help. Also, it's not a top-10 school (though also not down at the bottom of the charts, geoscience-wise).

[Kitkat]

With eng. I can imagine that that is the case, also with physics and comp. sci. people. I mean, their majors are very math intensive. But is it really that big deal with geosciences? especially with people who are more interested in the bio intensive part of the geosciences. ( I am looking at some schools that are interdisciplinary because of this). Are you already in grad school of some sort?

[newms]

With eng. I can imagine that that is the case, also with physics and comp. sci. people. I mean, their majors are very math intensive. But is it really that big deal with geosciences? especially with people who are more interested in the bio intensive part of the geosciences. ( I am looking at some schools that are interdisciplinary because of this). Are you already in grad school of some sort?

Yes, I think it is still pretty important for geosciences people (everybody in the sciences, really) to score as highly as they can on the quant GRE. Your percentile was 60%+, but when you apply, your score may very well be in the bottom half of all applicants for your program, especially for top schools. You want to give yourself as good a chance at getting in as possible, so if you believe you can do better than 670, then I would recommend you retake the exam.

[Kitkat]

I really don't want to, but the more I think about it, the more I realize I should just probably suck it up and retake the GRE. Especially if I want to give myself the best option of getting myself into one of my top tier schools. At least to give myself the chance of more then one pass over my application because I don't have a good enough quant score. Well, I have a while, I will just do everything in my power to study more!

[DrFaustus666]

Yes, I think it is still pretty important for geosciences people (everybody in the sciences, really) to score as highly as they can on the quant GRE. Your percentile was 60%+, but when you apply, your score may very well be in the bottom half of all applicants for your program, especially for top schools. You want to give yourself as good a chance at getting in as possible, so if you believe you can do better than 670, then I would recommend you retake the exam.

I really don't want to, but the more I think about it, the more I realize I should just probably suck it up and retake the GRE. Especially if I want to give myself the best option of getting myself into one of my top tier schools. At least to give myself the chance of more then one pass over my application because I don't have a good enough quant score. Well, I have a while, I will just do everything in my power to study more!

Hi KitKat,

Once again I must agree with newms ... consider this ... even I, a liberal arts guy who hasn't taken a math course since 1971 (no lie! look at my age in my profile) also squeaked a 670 once, and 690 another time .... if I can do that, then a serious scientist ought to be able to do better.

Sorry to put it in what may appear to be harsh terms, but it's a very very competitive world you're trying to break into

Good luck!

John

[newms]

I really don't want to, but the more I think about it, the more I realize I should just probably suck it up and retake the GRE. Especially if I want to give myself the best option of getting myself into one of my top tier schools. At least to give myself the chance of more then one pass over my application because I don't have a good enough quant score. Well, I have a while, I will just do everything in my power to study more!

Hey Kitkat. I think that's the right decision. With as much time as you have, you have a really good opportunity to put together an outstanding application.

[Kitkat]

So I will ask for advice here again. When retaking it, when do you think would be best to take it? I want to get my applications in fairly early, I am not going to say that I need to get them in first thing. I want to get them in early, but I also want to get them done well and in the best possible light. But I am also thinking along the lines of the sooner you get the applications in, the better chance to have them looked at by adcomms, and to also make sure that I get in before the financial aid deadlines. I have been looking at these things, and fin. aid. apps are tending to want to be in at least a month beforehand. Now, most of the fin aid apps seem to want to be due around mid Nov., so how much earlier do you think I should take it? I am thinking in the late summer, before classes start again, so that I am not worrying about that as well, and then I still have time before the apps are due.

[UnlikelyGrad]

So I will ask for advice here again. When retaking it, when do you think would be best to take it? I want to get my applications in fairly early, I am not going to say that I need to get them in first thing. I want to get them in early, but I also want to get them done well and in the best possible light. But I am also thinking along the lines of the sooner you get the applications in, the better chance to have them looked at by adcomms, and to also make sure that I get in before the financial aid deadlines. I have been looking at these things, and fin. aid. apps are tending to want to be in at least a month beforehand. Now, most of the fin aid apps seem to want to be due around mid Nov., so how much earlier do you think I should take it? I am thinking in the late summer, before classes start again, so that I am not worrying about that as well, and then I still have time before the apps are due.

Well, it takes 6-8 weeks to get official scores. Counting back 6 weeks from mid-Nov gives you late September. I would take it a couple of weeks earlier to be on the safe side.

Are you still in school? If so I would take it before the start of the fall semester so you have less to worry about.

[newms]

So I will ask for advice here again. When retaking it, when do you think would be best to take it? I want to get my applications in fairly early, I am not going to say that I need to get them in first thing. I want to get them in early, but I also want to get them done well and in the best possible light. But I am also thinking along the lines of the sooner you get the applications in, the better chance to have them looked at by adcomms, and to also make sure that I get in before the financial aid deadlines. I have been looking at these things, and fin. aid. apps are tending to want to be in at least a month beforehand. Now, most of the fin aid apps seem to want to be due around mid Nov., so how much earlier do you think I should take it? I am thinking in the late summer, before classes start again, so that I am not worrying about that as well, and then I still have time before the apps are due.

Pick a period when you will have enough time to properly prepare yourself. Next summer would be good, you could also consider the period between semesters at the end of this year/start of next. It's really up to when you think you can have a good solid 4-6 week period before where you could devote yourself to really preparing for the test.