In a PhD program, haven't handed in my Master's thesis...

[scatterpillar]

First off, sorry for the sockpuppet account - I've posted previously with another name, but wanted some privacy for this post. And also, sorry (pre-emptively) for the massive length!

I'm currently a first-year in an awesome PhD program. I love my current school and program, but my question/dilemma is about the school I attended prior to this.

In 2007, I went abroad to start a PhD (straight out of college), young and naive, and with little idea of what research was all about. About six months into my program, I realized that I was totally uninterested in my research project, but too unmotivated/uninspired to change it to something I liked. I didn't get along with my advisor at all (his advising style just didn't work for me, plus he was a bit of a jerk personally). I was also lonely and sad and generally very unhappy. I stuck it out because I didn't know what else to do (and I didn't want to be a quitter). A little over a year into my program, I found out that my advisor was moving to another university, and I had the option to either move with him or figure something else out. We both knew that I wouldn't be moving with him, and in fact this was a good chance for me to escape from the program that clearly was not working for me. We agreed that my best bet was to write up my work to that point into a Master's thesis, get the MA, and get out of there.

I fully intended to write my thesis, but once I left campus and moved back home I was totally uninspired to work on it. It was material that I was uninterested in and I just wanted a break from thinking about it. After a few months, I started to feel really guilty about not having finished it, which just led to me ignoring it even more. My advisor and I occasionally emailed regarding a paper we were working on, but we had never gotten along and he clearly thought I wasn't ready for grad school yet (he was right!). Anyway, in the meantime I got a job, took some time away from academia, and applied to PhD programs again with a much clearer idea of what I wanted to do. I got accepted into my current awesome program despite not having handed in my Master's thesis; when people asked, I just said I was taking my time with it, and nobody seemed to mind (most people in my field go straight into a PhD from college anyway). My Master's advisor didn't congratulate me when I told him, he just warned me that I'd have to be way more on top of my game this time around (which is true, although he could have been nicer about it!).

Last spring, I received back some comments from the paper I'd submitted for publication with my advisor. All the reviewers asked for some further information about the design of my experiment, so I went digging through my computer to make up the table they wanted. As I did so, I realized that there were some pretty serious flaws in the design. They were completely my own fault, and were mistakes that I'd made very early on in my Master's and never noticed. I was pretty sure that the paper was unpublishable with these mistakes. If I'd still been at school, I could have just re-run the study (wouldn't have taken too long now that we knew how to do it), but I was back home and my advisor was at a different school as well. I emailed him to ask for advice but he never responded. At this point, I've given up on the paper; I'm not too worried about not being able to publish it, since I've changed my focus anyway and am in a position to do much cooler work now.

Unfortunately, these mistakes carry over to all the experiments in my Master's thesis. Until I discovered these issues last spring, I fully intended to finish my Master's thesis eventually, I was just being a huge procrastinator. However, now that I know the mistakes are there, I don't see how I can hand it in. It's likely that I could get the degree just because my old department feels a little guilty about abandoning me, but it's just not good science. I'm not comfortable handing it in knowing that the results might not be accurate. It's also now been over three years since I started and I would have to get special permission (including a letter from my advisor, which I know he is reluctant to write) to be able to finish. At this point, I'm thinking I should just give it up and move on. I'm already at another school, and nobody will ever care that I wasted two years and didn't get a degree out of it, right?

I guess my questions are:

i) Do I sound like I'm making a reasonable decision? Is there some reason I'm not seeing to push for the Master's?

ii) Will my current university care that I didn't finish the degree I was in? Who do I ask to find out?

iii) Should I bring this up with my current advisor and if so, how? We haven't yet built a great rapport, since I just got here a couple weeks ago. If it's relevant, she's also the head of the department.

Thanks!!!

Edited September 21, 2010 by scatterpillar

[rachaelski]

You did do quite a bit of work for the masters; is there any way to salvage what you have and write up a thesis? I am not sure what field you are in, but in my area, recognizing the flaws of a research design or project could be the entire thesis! I say this as someone who started a master's program (finished all the coursework and thesis defense in 2 years), started a new job, then started a second masters program, graduated from second master's program, and then finally making the revisions and submitting/graduated. That's right, I wait 2 years for about 2 hours of work....I was kicking myself after I realized how little I had to do to complete the project. I realize it's a bit more serious that revisions, but it might not be as much work as you think. Is it at all related to what you are studying now? Perhaps you could do an independent study on the topic, to free up some time to re-research the topic.

[fuzzylogician]

Based on very similar personal experiences to yours which I prefer not to elaborate on in a public forum - since you're starting a PhD program now, the only thing that really matters is whether or not your not having finished your Masters will have any effect on your status in your new program. The best way to know that is to consult with someone at your new department - your advisor or the DGS come to mind. Most programs are direct from undergrad and don't require a masters degree. In that case it may be a bit disappointing, but I think it's wiser to get over the past and move on, especially since you say that you're changing direction. If you have to have the masters - then I think the best thing you can do is find out what the minimum requirement would be, and do that. You've learned from your experience and you've grown, and maybe you'll have reason to use the techniques or material that you learned during your masters in your future work, but I don't think you should spend more time correcting past mistakes than is necessary. In the end it's your publications and (possibly) your dissertation that will matter, not your MA thesis. From asking around my department - no one really cares. People were interested in the data and analysis that I (would have) suggested in my thesis, some have tried to convince me to go back to looking at it again, but absolutely no one seemed to mind that I didn't officially finish the degree.

[mudlark]

As long as

a) your admission to your PhD was not conditional upon you completing your master's

and

b ) you have never presented yourself as having finished it, on paper or in person,

you should be ok. But still best to check, I think. Maybe the DGS, so it's not your advisor?

Edited September 22, 2010 by mudlark

[Postbib Yeshuist]

since you're starting a PhD program now, the only thing that really matters is whether or not your not having finished your Masters will have any effect on your status in your new program.

This.

[scatterpillar]

Thanks for the responses! It's really nice to get some outside perspective on this - until a few days ago, I hadn't told anyone the whole story, and I'm still getting used to the idea that it's not the end of the world to go to school and not get a degree from it. My acceptance here wasn't contingent on the MA, so that shouldn't be a problem. I'm going to bring this up with either my advisor or the DGS next week and make sure they're okay with it. Right now, my only hesitation is that I don't want my advisor to think she made a mistake picking me to come here (well, that and I don't want to burst into tears in front of her). It seems impossible to talk about this without making myself look bad... I know that making mistakes and having to throw out data is an accepted part of doing research, but it still sucks to have to admit it! Plus the procrastinating and the depression... I suppose I could glaze over some of that in the interests of professionalism.

[mudlark]

Right now, my only hesitation is that I don't want my advisor to think she made a mistake picking me to come here (well, that and I don't want to burst into tears in front of her). It seems impossible to talk about this without making myself look bad... I know that making mistakes and having to throw out data is an accepted part of doing research, but it still sucks to have to admit it! Plus the procrastinating and the depression... I suppose I could glaze over some of that in the interests of professionalism.

Have you heard the saying, "Don't explain, don't complain"? You don't need to burst into your adviser's office and blurt out the whole thing, complete with underlying personal issues. Just go in with a script in your head that has the necessary information, no more. "Hi Adviser, I wanted to check in with you about something. I've recently realized that there are problems with the data from my master's thesis, and since I'm too far away to re-run the numbers, it's not feasible for me to complete the project without interrupting my studies here. If I don't finish my thesis, will that have any impact on my current program?" Then answer any questions s/he asks as directly as possible. Good luck!

[TMP]

If you never talked about your MA or plan to include the degree on your CV, I wouldn't even dream of bringing it up to anyone at your current school. You need to move forward.

But I do agree with mudlark if you really need to re-run this data and you have a legit excuse for why you can't right now.